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Rat-Terrier.com
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breshearsratterriers
Ratterific
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| 02/23/2008 10:02 PM |
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Is CDA a specific kind of Alopecia? Nevermind I figured it out....color dilution alopecia--now I feel kinda dumb  |
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Baileydukedavis
Terrier Terror
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| 02/24/2008 7:12 PM |
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| I have to add a little to this thread. My Bailey is a blue. I spoke with his breeder who is known for breeding "blues" He said that both Baileys parents were both blues. Bailey is fine no skin/hair problems. Maybe we just got lucky but he says that he has never had any problems. |
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"If your dog doesn't like someone you probably shouldn't either." - Unknown
Bailey Duke Tazman Davis, Sydney Grace Davis, Chance Tazman Davis and Gracie Mae Davis |
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Darla
Ratterific
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| 02/24/2008 8:10 PM |
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Posted By Baileydukedavis on 02/24/2008 7:12 PM
I have to add a little to this thread. My Bailey is a blue. I spoke with his breeder who is known for breeding "blues" He said that both Baileys parents were both blues. Bailey is fine no skin/hair problems. Maybe we just got lucky but he says that he has never had any problems.
How old is your Bailey and his parents? Remember this may not show up for 6 years.
Who is your Baileys breeder? |
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(link)
Breeders Of Champion and Grand Champion
Rat Terriers and American Hairless Terriers
Striving For Health, Temperament and Conformation In All Our Terriers
KnD
Breeding For A Better Tomorrow- Today. |
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Morgan
Moderator
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| 02/25/2008 1:56 PM |
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Posted By Baileydukedavis on 02/24/2008 7:12 PM
I have to add a little to this thread. My Bailey is a blue. I spoke with his breeder who is known for breeding "blues" He said that both Baileys parents were both blues. Bailey is fine no skin/hair problems. Maybe we just got lucky but he says that he has never had any problems.
 Do you think he/she is aware of this disease? Every time he breeds a blue male and female together he is taking a chance.
As Darla mentioned, even though no signs are present now....it may be years later before you start seeing signs. I just hate to think that the breeder will continue to breed 2 blues together because he/she hasn't had any problems 'yet'. There is still always that chance. I just feel bad for the puppies who do have to go through that. |
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-Morgan (Bella's Mommy) |
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Darla
Ratterific
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| 02/25/2008 6:53 PM |
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Posted By Morgan on 02/25/2008 1:56 PM
Posted By Baileydukedavis on 02/24/2008 7:12 PM
I have to add a little to this thread. My Bailey is a blue. I spoke with his breeder who is known for breeding "blues" He said that both Baileys parents were both blues. Bailey is fine no skin/hair problems. Maybe we just got lucky but he says that he has never had any problems.
Do you think he/she is aware of this disease? Every time he breeds a blue male and female together he is taking a chance.
As Darla mentioned, even though no signs are present now....it may be years later before you start seeing signs. I just hate to think that the breeder will continue to breed 2 blues together because he/she hasn't had any problems 'yet'. There is still always that chance. I just feel bad for the puppies who do have to go through that.
This was common practice years ago when they (breeders) didn't know any different. We do now or we should. It is just not a necessary chance we need to take. There is not need to. You want blue puppies? breed 2 blue carriers together NOT 2 blues. |
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(link)
Breeders Of Champion and Grand Champion
Rat Terriers and American Hairless Terriers
Striving For Health, Temperament and Conformation In All Our Terriers
KnD
Breeding For A Better Tomorrow- Today. |
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Baileydukedavis
Terrier Terror
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| 02/29/2008 6:01 PM |
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Hey sorry guys I havent been on here in a while. Baileys breeder is out of Troutman NC. And he has been doing this for 20 years so maybe he just doesnt know about the change. I dont know. Personally I didnt know about the blue issue when I bought Bailey and I wasnt looking for a blue I just fell in love with him the moment I saw him and I new he was the one. And no I am not trying to breed to get a blue. Actually I was not wanting another blue (wanted another color before I new about the issue) I either want a standard color or just a tan one. I really dont care what color just as long as they are healthy. We have recently bred Bailey to a tan/brown/blue and I didnt know that you werent supposed to breed a blue to a blue so hopefully everything will be okay. Bailey is now a little over 2 years old and he is fine.....like you said it happens after 6 I dont know I hope and pray Bailey is okay. I guess we will just have to wait and see. Thank you guys for this info. I do not plan on breeding him to another blue. Thanks again  |
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"If your dog doesn't like someone you probably shouldn't either." - Unknown
Bailey Duke Tazman Davis, Sydney Grace Davis, Chance Tazman Davis and Gracie Mae Davis |
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barbiet
Newbie
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| 03/03/2008 6:33 AM |
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What we all need to remember here. Breeding dilute to dilute in one generation may not cause a problem...it's the next 10 generations that we must be careful of. If ya breed two blues...and ya don't get CDA...luck may have intervened. The next generation or the one after that...etc...is what we should worry about...
As KnD indicated...CDA may not raise it's ugly head for 6 years...do the math on how many puppies might be out there...from a highly used stud dog...that displays CDA at 6 years of age. His offspring would be carriers since he is affected. It boggles the mind.
Sometime, if you get a chance...take a look at the American PitBull Terrier...google around ... very, very few true black APBT's. Why? Because they love BLUE and they breed for it...Blue Fawns, Blue Brindles...all sorts out there...and they do have CDA...but more than that....many of these dogs (products of several generations of blue to blue breedings) have virtually no pigment left...very light, very, very diluted. They also have all sorts of skin issues...connective tissue issues...and goodness only knows what.
GoldRush bred a black tri girlee (who carries blue and perhaps chocolate) to a pearl tri male. Undoubtedly they will get blue, perhaps chocolate and pearl. They should get black tri pups as well. We all hope so anyway! LOL! Genetics isn't always as predictable as we would hope...science is not exact.
Good luck with your Bailey litter...in my case...rather than worry about what colors he might produce...I worry that he and the girlee had all their appropriate testing...at least were vet checked for patellas and heart...prior to breeding. If ya didn't do it this time...please give it a go next time...its one way of insuring that you have put two healthy dogs together.
barbie
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Barbie Trammell
Bur-Way Stars Kennels
www.imageevent.com/burway |
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AristocRats
Newbie
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| 03/04/2008 1:20 AM |
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As the owner of a Pearl Rat Terrier stud ... whom is the foundation of my future breeding program ... I can tell you, that dilutes are not something to be bred lightly.
Any time you breed a dilute ... you're, in essence, playing with fire. That does NOT mean it cannot be done safely. It just means that it's something best left undone ... if you don't know what you're dealing with. If you don't understand the genetics behind the myriad colors our Rat Terriers can offer us ... and the issues that can come with them ... from allergies, to skin problems, to CDA ... don't do it. I mean that with no disprespect. But truly, if Color Dilution Alopecia is a new term to you ... you have no business breeding a dilute dog. And no, it does NOT take two dilute parents to produce a CDA-affected dog.
I have only support for everything that barbiet, darla, and goldrush have offered here. So don't have much to add. But I own the pearl stud dog that Goldrush used on its most recent upcoming litter. He's the dog in my avatar. He is my heart and soul ... and the foundation of my program. And I'll say, that I would never have bred this dog, were I not well aware of the risks associated with dilute colors.
Do your homework. Learn the genetics. And NEVER breed a dilute dog with so much as a seasonal allergy. MHO Let alone a dog out of two dilute parents, or one with "missing blue hair."
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AristocRats Rat Terriers
Home to GRCH AristocRat Sterling Bullet
Distinguished UKC and AKC-FSS Rat Terriers
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swatson6
Attention Starved
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| 03/04/2008 8:29 AM |
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Posted By AristocRats on 03/04/2008 1:20 AM
As the owner of a Pearl Rat Terrier stud ... whom is the foundation of my future breeding program ... I can tell you, that dilutes are not something to be bred lightly.
Any time you breed a dilute ... you're, in essence, playing with fire. That does NOT mean it cannot be done safely. It just means that it's something best left undone ... if you don't know what you're dealing with. If you don't understand the genetics behind the myriad colors our Rat Terriers can offer us ... and the issues that can come with them ... from allergies, to skin problems, to CDA ... don't do it. I mean that with no disprespect. But truly, if Color Dilution Alopecia is a new term to you ... you have no business breeding a dilute dog. And no, it does NOT take two dilute parents to produce a CDA-affected dog.
I have only support for everything that barbiet, darla, and goldrush have offered here. So don't have much to add. But I own the pearl stud dog that Goldrush used on its most recent upcoming litter. He's the dog in my avatar. He is my heart and soul ... and the foundation of my program. And I'll say, that I would never have bred this dog, were I not well aware of the risks associated with dilute colors.
Do your homework. Learn the genetics. And NEVER breed a dilute dog with so much as a seasonal allergy. MHO Let alone a dog out of two dilute parents, or one with "missing blue hair."
Very well said. 
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Sarah
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Susan
Terrier Terror
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| 03/06/2008 12:54 AM |
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I just agree with y'all! The genetics of color is very interesting and a life study in some cases. There are so very many things that can go wrong in breeding that you can not control. Controlling the few factors that you can is so very important. My Maggie is the pearl bitch that I have based my breeding on. She is very healthy, although now spayed because of pymetria. She has produced some of the nicest pups for structure that I have seen. That is what we are breeding for. Structure. Color is interesting and it is good to be knowledgeable but structure is the dog, color the frosting.
And again, I am very against acceptance of merle in the rat terrier colors. Blue itself is hard enough! Merle is so very difficult to control and one spot can be missed if you dock. Not likely some would say, but I saw it in Aussies and a thin merle line on the butt or tail is easy to miss for most everybody, and many people have! Working with an Aussie breeder near here I noticed this one bitch he had always threw blue merle pups, when bathing her I found a thin line of merle near her skirts. It didn't show much, he had always thought she was a black tri, but she was a merle. He hadn't figured out why she had so many "white" pups and hadn't worried about it after all she was a black tri. Not a blue merle tri. He was horrified when we found out. But stuff like this is common, it happens even with people who are trying not to make mistakes. |
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ANYTHING WORTH DOING IS WORTH OVERDOING Mom of eight, only three left at home! Pack leader to ten ratties: Maggie, Mysty, Berry, Simon, Ceecee and five puppies, Star,Sari, Bluebelle, Double stuf,and Snortie. As well as Ginger the Border Collie and a herd of turkeys! |
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piedpiper
Newbie
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| 08/14/2008 5:20 PM |
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Pearl is a dilute. Pearl is the dilute of chocolate. Blue is the dilute of black.
Doreen |
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Pied Piper Ratties
"Built Terrier Tough!"
http://www.calirats.com
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melo
Ratastic
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| 08/15/2008 8:39 PM |
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I was looking up nora's ancestors and her grandfather was a blue, thus she is, even though her parents are not.
The funny thing was she looked nothing like him--his markings were quite different, he mostly had a blue head!! Nora on the other hand is about 70 percent blue with some tan and white.
I fell in love with her before I knew about blue issues--- |
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Susan
Terrier Terror
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| 08/15/2008 9:52 PM |
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| Yes! Pearl is also a dilute, as is lemon and apricot. All dilutes have the possibility of problems, especially when bred together. Ressesive genes are the bane and the joy of the breeders exsistance. |
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ANYTHING WORTH DOING IS WORTH OVERDOING Mom of eight, only three left at home! Pack leader to ten ratties: Maggie, Mysty, Berry, Simon, Ceecee and five puppies, Star,Sari, Bluebelle, Double stuf,and Snortie. As well as Ginger the Border Collie and a herd of turkeys! |
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