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Subject: I am now getting a taste of the bad in breeding...
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breshearsratterriers


Ratterific
Ratterific
03/05/2008 4:48 PM  

I recently received an email from a past puppy buyer...This is how it reads:

Thanks for your Christmas card.  I have put off answering you because what is going on with Maudie is not easy to put into words.
 
To begin, let me say that Maudie is an absolutely beautiful, loving little dog.  She will be 8 months old this Friday, March 7, and weighed 14.2 lbs. the last time we weighed her in Feb. and is very lean and muscular.  She has been spayed and is housebroken, going in and out the doggie door on her own.  But there are problems:
 
--The problem which upsets me the most is that she has started eating the feces of my other two dogs.  It has nothing to do with nutrition because she eats very expensive premium puppy food, both canned and dry.  I think it has more to do with the fact that Maudie considers herself to be the pack leader and these are the perks of being #1.  It takes constant vigilance of both Rod and me to pick up the poop before she can get to it, but she has been known to run ahead of us, grab a turd and eat it on the run.  This is ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING to me and has affected my relationship with her since I can't stand for her to lick me, etc.
 
--The next problem (which is actually more serious than poop-eating if you discount my revulsion) is that Maudie won't let either of the other two dogs play with ANYTHING.  She goes immediately and takes it away from them and bites Pal cruelly on his face or neck until he releases whatever he has, even his beloved ball.  (Lulu is submissive and does not get bitten, but she never gets to play with a toy either.)  Pal can't even play ball with Rod because Maudie grabs onto it right after he catches it and he has to drag her all the way back for Rod to throw the ball again, but the minute Pal releases the ball, she grabs it and runs off with the ball, effectively ruining the game he loves most.  Pal normally just lets Maudie have whatever she wants, but he cares about his ball, so sometimes he resists Maudie and then they fight, which, so far, we've been able to break up, but the day is coming when it will be truly awful, since I can see that Maudie will NEVER give up, and, as she gets older, will fight to her death (or Pal's).   
 
--Maudie has chewed up three dog collars with our phone number on  them, including her own collar.  She jerks Pal around when he's wearing a collar and eventually jerks it off of him and chews it up.  So, now, neither Pal nor Maudie have collars on because I can't figure a way around this. 
 

I thought buying a puppy would solve the problem of a companion dog pushing Pal around, but Maudie also took over even when she was still small because Pal just doesn't have it in him to stand up for himself except for a very few things.  We had tried several possible dogs for Pal to run with from various rescue organizations, but they ALL sized him up and then made him eat dirt, so we had to take them back.  Maudie doesn't play with Pal--she just muscles him around and bites on him even though she is much smaller yet than he is.  Maudie needs to be the only dog in the household so she can have all the attention for herself (she is quite loving with people), plus she doesn't eat her own poop, so that problem would be solved also.  I have not put an ad in the paper because I can't stand to think of her going to someone who wouldn't take care of her the way we do.  Do you know someone, personall y, who would want an older, spayed puppy and know, for sure, that they would be good to her and have plenty of time to give her all the attention she needs?

I have put in my puppy sales contract that if for any reason the puppy buyer does not want or can not keep the dog, the must return the dog to me. I just hope that little Maudie is in good health. I have a feeling that I will be seeing her again very soon. If anyone would like this little girl, please send me a pm. I don't have any current pictures....but I will hopefully have some very soon. Also do you think that I should offer advice to try before she returns her to me? Do you think that it will matter. I hate to disrupt this little one's life, but if they have made up their minds....I know there won't be room for discussion.

Thanks in advance!

Brandii

 

PamWh


Attention Starved
Attention Starved
03/05/2008 4:51 PM  
Sounds like they haven't tried to train her at all to stop these behaviors.

PamWh
aka Bob's Mom

If your rattie ain't happy, ain't nobody happy!
breshearsratterriers


Ratterific
Ratterific
03/05/2008 4:53 PM  

That is what it sounds like to me to, that is why I don't know if it would be a waste of time to email suggestions....only to find out that they have taken her to a shelter...or given her away.

spence9118


Terrier Terror
Terrier Terror
03/05/2008 4:54 PM  
Wow! It sounds like this lady has no clue how to train her dogs. I dont know a dog that hasent eaten poop sometime in its life! Maybe it would be for the best to have her returned to you so you can find her a better home that will understand her.

Erica- Charlie and Tucker's Mommy

www.myspace.com/ricka9118

gwacie


Rat-A-Tat-Tat
Rat-A-Tat-Tat
03/05/2008 5:00 PM  
Ditto - not a clue about dog ethology. I'm sorry you are having to deal with it. Maudie sounds like a normal pushy little girl who they are allowing to dominate. And WHAT is so bad about having to pick up dog poop before she can eat it anyway? Has she even looked into that stuff you put in food to make the poop taste unappealing? Picking up poop each time they go is, frankly, healthier for everyone and will make the yard a more pleasant place to be.

Sounds too like they are babying Pal which can only make it worse.

Good luck.

gwacie (Bethany)
http://www.myadams.net/dogs/
PamWh


Attention Starved
Attention Starved
03/05/2008 5:00 PM  
Yeah, I'd probably take her back right away. Maybe you can retrain her. What is your refund policy after 6-8 months?

PamWh
aka Bob's Mom

If your rattie ain't happy, ain't nobody happy!
swatson6


Attention Starved
Attention Starved
03/05/2008 5:01 PM  
Wow, obvious owner issues here. What really bugs me is where she states..... "We had tried several possible dogs for Pal to run with from various rescue organizations, but they ALL sized him up and then made him eat dirt, so we had to take them back"!!!!! Um okay, they need to stop getting dogs, they are obviously not putting any effort into training and want the perfect dog that is born fully trained.
If you have a contract than why did she even consider putting in an ad?? I personally would take her back and find her a good home. Sounds to me like these people aren't going to follow any advice you have.

Sarah



Wendy


Newbie
Newbie
03/05/2008 5:02 PM  

Really who is the boss Maude or the lady?? Sounds like Maude is eating the poop and having all the other behaviors "Because she can?"  They are allowing it!! Maude and the owner need boot camp!!

breshearsratterriers


Ratterific
Ratterific
03/05/2008 5:09 PM  

I completely missed the part about trying several other shelter dogs!! Oh my goodness!! That makes me want to march myself over to her house and let her know that she is not good enough for Maudie and that is the only problem that I see!! I guess I was just so suprised at the email that I didn't notice. I won't give the lady a refund....unless that is what I have to do to get Maudie back....If I give her a refund I have a feeling that she would only use it for her next shelter dog!! GRRRRR this makes me so mad...

tauney4


Pack Leader
Pack Leader
03/05/2008 5:15 PM  
sounds like the little girl needs some good doggie training!!!!!
LadyLes


Terrier Terror
Terrier Terror
03/05/2008 5:21 PM  
Wow, maybe SHE should try being the boss and Maudie would not display those behaviors. Sounds like she's a door mat...and not a very responsible pet owner!

There is nothing better than wine and chocolate!
~Ashley~
gwacie


Rat-A-Tat-Tat
Rat-A-Tat-Tat
03/05/2008 5:36 PM  
Perhaps, once you have Maudie back safely, you should give her a little education about dogs. She doesn't seem to get it. I missed that part about her TRYING OUT several rescues. OMG. I could slap people.

gwacie (Bethany)
http://www.myadams.net/dogs/
Katie'sMom


Terrier Terror
Terrier Terror
03/05/2008 5:42 PM  
Wow. Sounds like an owner problem, not a puppy problem. Geeze. Tell her to put a little 100% puree of pumkin (not pie filling) in her dogs' food and that will probably stop the feces eating. Or, you do that when you get this baby back to break her of that habit. With a mama like that, I can't really blame the poor baby!

Check out Katie Scarlett and Company, KS's new site (includes magazine):
Katie Scarlett and Company

And email her at:
katiescarlettorattie@gmail.com


gwacie


Rat-A-Tat-Tat
Rat-A-Tat-Tat
03/05/2008 5:44 PM  
pssst Jan - I have a girl that LOVES her some punkin flavored poop. Only thing that works is picking it up and watching her closely when she goes out.

gwacie (Bethany)
http://www.myadams.net/dogs/
Katie'sMom


Terrier Terror
Terrier Terror
03/05/2008 5:53 PM  

That's why I said "probably stop" - it doesn't always work!  But, it's worth a try!


Check out Katie Scarlett and Company, KS's new site (includes magazine):
Katie Scarlett and Company

And email her at:
katiescarlettorattie@gmail.com


Susan


Terrier Terror
Terrier Terror
03/05/2008 7:19 PM  
You do need to take the puppy back. You do not have to refund the money as the problems the pup is having are all due to being an alpha bitch and the "owner" giving no training to put her where she needs to be in the pack.

As another breeder this is not the worst I have heard of. Sad but true. What is worse is going to a home that you had placed a puppy in and asking wheres the pup? and having people that you thought you liked telling you how they gave her away cause she was too much trouble! This is with a contract too! But Darla is right, contracts are only worth the people who sign them. Too many just throw them away after they have the puppy home.

ANYTHING WORTH DOING IS WORTH OVERDOING Mom of eight, only three left at home! Pack leader to ten ratties: Maggie, Mysty, Berry, Simon, Ceecee and five puppies, Star,Sari, Bluebelle, Double stuf,and Snortie. As well as Ginger the Border Collie and a herd of turkeys!
DaisysMom


Moderator
<b>Moderator</b>
03/05/2008 7:42 PM  
I agree this lady has no idea of pack mentality or that she (and hubby) MUST be the ultimate Alphas within the pack.

I don't think though that it's necessarily (other than maybe the poop thing) a matter of correcting Maude. I think it very likely from her "tone" especially regarding Pal, that a lot of this behavior by Maude is more than likely the result of her HAVING to assert herself because of the three dogs, she is the alpha, but the humans are placing all of these human emotions onto the dogs, like equality and fairness and sharing and such, that just aren't realistic. Sounds like a classic case of complete ignorance that dogs are not people and cannot be treated as if they are.

You could try offering advice and help, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Tracey - Darlin' Daisy's Mom

The Animal Rescue Site


tiggarat


Bratty Ratty
Bratty Ratty
03/05/2008 8:15 PM  
some people just shouldn't be allowed to have dogs! I'd try to get the pup back before she dumps her off at a shelter. sounds like all of this is a "training" issue...mostly on the owner's part.

Lisabeth

furbabies: Lucy and Molly (1 1/2 yr old decker ratties), and Rosie (3 yr old dobie)
Buddy - gone but never forgotten.

"I don't think he has any idea he's a dog, really. Of course, he thinks he has a rather odd figure for a man" - Dodie Smith
breshearsratterriers


Ratterific
Ratterific
03/05/2008 8:42 PM  

Well she has sent me another email....She has given up, but she is afraid to give her back to me because I have to go to work.... I guess I am just going to have to make a trip to her house after work tomorrow. Here is the email that I sent to her....

[I need to ask you this question, have you given up on Maudie? Would you like to give her another try? I have some ideas that might help.....but if you have given up it won't do me any good to email the ideas to you.
 
Brandii
 

P.S. If at all possible I would like to save the relationship between you and Maudie. It will take some work, and patience....but if you have really given up on her I will take her back and find a home for her myself. Have you looked into finding a behaviorlist? I would love to help you in any way I can. I am in it for Maudie's best interest. I appreciate you emailing me before taking any action. Please let me know how I can help. ]

This is her response:

(Yes, I've pretty much given up on her ever being a good citizen with my other two dogs.  We can't afford a "behaviorist," but more than that I feel so bad physically on a daily basis that I don't have enough energy to try and work with her problems.  I have fibromyalgia (which won't kill me, but just makes me feel like I'm going to die) and diabetes (which is actually trying to kill me right now) and high blood pressure.  Stress makes all my problems much, much worse.

 

When I looked out the window today and saw her out in the yard eating Pal's poop, I raised the window and hollered at her, but she just ignored me.  Rod went out right away and tried to stop her, but he was too late.  It upsets me so bad to witness that, I realized that something was going to have to be done or it was going to cause me to stroke out.  I simply am not able to take it in stride.

 

If you think you can find her a good home, that would be wonderful.  But, Brandii, she has never been crated or even left alone.  My health has deteriorated to the point that the only time I leave the house is to go to the doctor.  When I have to be gone, Rod stays home with the dogs.  What would you do with her when you're at work?  I think Maudie would lose her mind if she couldn't go in and out through the doggie door.  She does that a thousand times a day.  She's very busy.  And all the dogs sleep in bed with Rod at night--flannel sheets are hard to give up for a dog.  (I would love to have dogs in my bed, but I have a hard time sleeping because of the fibro.)  Maudie won't even let Pal sleep in "his" place which upsets him very much.

 

Yes, she's spoiled, but we're old people and our life revolves around our dogs.  But Maudie's problems were not caused by our loving her; they are just her personality.  I'm afraid that whoever adopted her might have problems with her requiring a lot of attention and exercise and she must be supervised because she is still a puppy and gets into things if you don't watch her.

 

I feel pretty hopeless about all of this.  Damned if I find her a new home; damned if I don't.

 

Sorry if I've depressed you.  I've been wrestling with this dilemma for several months, hoping things would just change on their own, but all that's changed is my health going downhill.)

I think I would easily talk her into it, but still it angers me!!

 

treble02


Pack Leader
Pack Leader
03/05/2008 8:49 PM  
WHAT!?!?! That email is just REDICULOUS!!!
she says she has given up, but then the next few paragraphs are why YOU wont be good enough? HUH?????? Better than an owner that CANT exercise her properly, and ALLOWS her to EAT POOP!!
GRRRRR....what do you need to talk her into?
she admited that she is done with her and she signed something saying she will give her back right? isnt that enough to go get her? BLAH ...sorry that is irritating....i feel for you!
I could pick apart that email sentence by sentence commenting on how much NONSENSE it is..but I will spare you all and myself!

~ Mary, Trixi and Toa's Mommy
Ratbone Rescues Foster Mommy
breshearsratterriers


Ratterific
Ratterific
03/05/2008 9:00 PM  

I crate my dogs at night when we are sleeping and during the day while I am at work. The main reason for that is they just don't get along. I have to make sure that I keep the boys seperated and the girls....They love to fight with one another.  Each one of them gets play time and one on one time. I have tried letting them all run in the house at once and it went bad really fast. Normally I let one boy and one girl out to potty together and let the other boy and girl roam the house. Then I switch them back and forth until bed time. My dogs don't mind their crate--all I have to say is okay everybody let's go to bed and they all go in their crates...tails wagging all the way there. When the girls are in heat I really have to be careful of who I let with who, we don't want any unplanned pregnancies or girl fights!! LOL. I wish that I would have never let her take the dog to begin with!!

rattytatty


Training Moderator
Training Moderator
03/05/2008 9:08 PM  
I'm truly at a loss for words over this situation....and I'm not one who is usually at a loss for words... sorry. Just get the dog back... asap.


~Nora~
Mom to Hoss, Lil'Bit, Buster & Bailey, CGC, NA, NAJ
breshearsratterriers


Ratterific
Ratterific
03/05/2008 9:18 PM  

Here are some pictures of Maudie...when she was at my house...

Darla


Ratterific
Ratterific
03/05/2008 9:21 PM  

I agree... I'd just get her back. There are things that can be done to work with these issues but she doesn't want to take the time to do it.

There are supplements that can be put in food to stop a dog form eatting poo... and this dog may need some correcting but keep in mind these are TERRIERS .. she wants to be alpha,, she is acting like a dog!!   OH MY...lol


(link)

Breeders Of Champion and Grand Champion
Rat Terriers and American Hairless Terriers
Striving For Health, Temperament and Conformation In All Our Terriers
KnD
Breeding For A Better Tomorrow- Today.
Susan


Terrier Terror
Terrier Terror
03/05/2008 9:29 PM  
Odd thing that! A dog acting like a dog and not a human. But they just insist on doing it.

ANYTHING WORTH DOING IS WORTH OVERDOING Mom of eight, only three left at home! Pack leader to ten ratties: Maggie, Mysty, Berry, Simon, Ceecee and five puppies, Star,Sari, Bluebelle, Double stuf,and Snortie. As well as Ginger the Border Collie and a herd of turkeys!
breshearsratterriers


Ratterific
Ratterific
03/05/2008 9:37 PM  

Maudie's mom is an alpha female.....She makes sure to keep the boys in line .

rattytatty


Training Moderator
Training Moderator
03/05/2008 9:44 PM  

The only dog I've ever owned that even attempted to eat poop is Buster. (He's a beagle/terrier mix... and Beagles are notorious for eating poop).  He did it at a very early age... started it around the age of 3 months. Gosh.. hard to believe that was 8 years ago! I taught him fairly quickly though... that although this might be a natural thing for HIM to do... it was not an acceptable behavior for me. It took about a month if I remember correctly... but I kept him on a leash (30-foot long line) and I would allow him to walk right up to the poop(which.. by the way... had tabasco sauce all over it), then I would give a gentle "snap" of the long line.. pull him away from it and say "LEAVE IT". I was consistent in doing this... and after awhile he quit even attempting to eat the other dogs' poop. Although there are many reasons for a dog doing this... regardless of the reason... it is a very correctable behavior.

But... it's obvious the owners of this little girl aren't willing to devote the time or energy into any type of training. Get the dog back and either keep it yourself (if you want to) or find a good home for it where someone WILL take the time this little dog needs to get her back on the right path.



~Nora~
Mom to Hoss, Lil'Bit, Buster & Bailey, CGC, NA, NAJ
Rowdy's Mom


Rat-A-Tat-Tat
Rat-A-Tat-Tat
03/05/2008 9:54 PM  
Reading what this woman writes, I don't think she is making herself a pack leader at all! How does she expect her puppy to learn to behave if her method of interacting with it is to yell at it out the window?!?! Not a wonder she's returning her dogs all the time. It's shocking Lulu and Pal are even well-behaved at all. Her messages sound like someone who doesn't want to put time or work into training and just expects things to "happen" for her. Guess when she bought your puppy she thought it came fully trained or something...

I would go get your puppy and start in on the crate training. It may be a PITA, but you'll be able to rest assured your baby girl is in a loving home receiving good training. And then you can work on rehoming her to someone who's willing to be a responsible pet owner.

She's a cutie, BTW! Love that little face!!

~Chrys~ Mom to Rowdy, Schatzi (shephard mix), and Sam (lab mix) and Lovin' Every Minute of It!
http://www.myspace.com/rowdyluvsschatzi
Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket
Jules


Firehouse Big Dog
Firehouse Big Dog
03/05/2008 10:19 PM  
She sounds like the people at the dogpark you run into whos dogs can do no wrong and if your dog plays with their dog they freak out and walk their dog away. I am suprised she kept your puppy so long. That is so frustrating! I agree every dog eats poop her other two must not be very dog like lol

“Photography is about finding out what can happen in the frame. When you put four edges around some facts, you change those facts.” -Garry Winogrand

Been a member of rt.com since Aug. 2005
GoldRushKennels


Ratterific
Ratterific
03/06/2008 12:58 AM  

Our Alpha girl is a major bitch and will eat poop once in awhile out of spite

You can put them on Deter. Some of the RBR foster moms swear by black licorice. About the Alpha thing it takes work. RT's will eat just about anything and are protective of their space and belongings.

I would take her back. Best luck I have seen with older owners is an older dog.

Jeff


Jeff & Janet
Gold Rush Kennels - Rat Terriers
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