Very nice post KnD and AdamsAcres!

Nowadays there is no excuse for having lack of information. If you are here then you have access to the information to do things correctly.

Janet and I still can get a good cry on about lost babies, I know Ken and Darla can too. You have to do it right or not at all.

If you want real heartbreak stories about folks that just breed their dog because they can go talk to Caroline or Cora of Rat Bones and ResQ. I gaurentee you will change your mind about what you are doing.

I do.....years ago when I first started breeding rat terriers on a more "serious" note.....I contacted a young man in Ft. Gibson who was doing this.  I went to his kennels, they were beautiful (also had cattle, horses, etc) and he had records on breedings and why he was doing the breeding, and why he did the cross.  I think some are good and some are not so good.  The 4-H leader had them study the dog,  history, standard, etc....and had to report why they did the cross they did and what the outcome was.  So, it can be the start of a passion for that child, or they can just do it because they thought it was an easy project....again, gotta screen not only potential buyers, but those you are buying from.

So, IMHO, it COULD be a good thing, but probably in most cases is more likely not.  Good question.

I never had a lot to do with 4H but doesn't 4H have the intentions of teaching young kids how to breed and breed reasonable ? If not I would hope so. Being a good responsible is something that many could learn.

I've been walikng though my house, while do some house work, and looking around. I thought of one of my satements "breeding in a life style" "It is a way of life for me and Ken". I looked at my floors .. no carpet and whats here looks like they should be in a warehouse from all the cleaning up we do, not one corner is left on a chair un-gnawed  on, I wouldn't know what it's like to not type one handed while having an overseer also on my desk and at least 5-10 dogs at my feet all the time...lol I love it and wouldn't trade it for THE WORLD.  Not many pet people would like it at my house. I dare you try to sit and have a conversation without 4 dogs trying to get to know you but guess what this is their our huse..lol It is a way of life for me and Ken and exactly what we want and the way we choose to live.

Thanks for listening.. just felt like sharing that.

Just to lighten the mood a little bit... Here is Little Fella. He is going to a breeder we know and trust. She has had pups of ours before and we think she is great. Little Fella will be a breeder. His parents  are health tested and we hope he test clear as well. We hope that he will make beautiful babies,  we hope they will be even better than he is. We hoipe that he can be an example of a good small mini and that he can prove that you can be a small mini and still look and act like a RAT TERRIER.  I will cry when he get on the plane  ..NO JOKE

G'day Pam,

Thank you and others for at least looking up some stuff before jumping all over my post.

It is good that people see what I (or you) write and at least it encourages them to go look up something fo themselves... not take what you or I say as gospel. It gets us all thinking and researching...

Who wins??.... These babies we ALL love like our own children.

Now,,, 4H....

I think that school age children breeding a litter COULD be a wonderful idea... much for the same reason I feel young girls at schools could benefit from looking after babies.... for HOURS.

Now if a school was to approach us (myself and Darla),,, and ask our advice,,, we would say GREAT,,,, Great idea... IF you do it all.

Do not just play with cute little puppies...

Get a male and female younger puppy.. raise them... pick up poop.. LOTS of it. Learn about good food... not Ol' Roy,,,, study foods and puppy nutrition ,,, maybe feed some good raw food,,, get their hands bloody and dirty... like good breeders do EVERY day.

Get these two puppies regular vet work,,, with a real vet. Shots, check ups, treatements AND emergency treatments maybe...

Raise them  and then learn about testing and OFA... the requirments ... the problems in THAT breed. Rat Terriers are prone to patella problems, hip problems, mange, teeth alignment problems,,,, not rarely but a LOT... (this is why we test).

Let these kids raise these dogs only to then find out that despite all the costs and time and poop picking up,... and the LOVE..... that their dogs (maybe) are NOT healthy and should not/cannot be bred...... then they realise they have to start again. START AGAIN,,, buy ANOTHER puppy and vet and raise it all over again.

You never get that money back ,,, hip x-rays alone can cost up to 400 dollars and more... and you do not get a refund if your dog has bad hips. You just start again.

If these 4H classes would please keep a record of ALL costs and heartbreaks of REAL breeding..... maybe if they ever breed themselves,,, they wil then do it right,,, as they have seen what bad breeding can create..... they also know now that breeding is not a "for profit" business,,,,, ESPECIALLY if they do it right.

A report from these kids would open a LOT of eyes... don't ya think?

Ken Jones

www.kndkennels.com

He is cute! I cry when my puppies leave, I seem to always have a favorite in a litter, whether I want to or not one will always grab me by the heart strings.
This pup we called Cloie (now named scout) was one of my favorites. I cryed when she left. She is well adjusted and spoiled, she lives with 3 other ratties and a labrador.

http://s235.photobucket.com/albums/ee36/azratlover/?action=view&current=cloi2week.jpg   It should work.

LOL.. I do know what ya mean...

Our boys don't get to stay in for long periods at a time. Although we did get Bomber to use the doggie door. Poor baby Marx (please take note of the name) is about to get a rude shock. He will be 6 months soon,  as you know having his sissy, he does use the doggie door IF he feels like it...lol... but now that he is about to realize he is a young man he will have to have some new rules.  

That litter has head strong pups! Miss D uses the door when she see's fit. Then there is Seymour and his boys.... He passed on his never ending supply of pee.

We go right from mom to a litter box and then the doggy door. We crate from the get go. It's their cave and they know it Don't have to shut the door, just tell them to get in their houses.

Next month the new dog yard will be done!!! We get our front yard back and a lawn!

We are taking the last of the carpet out soon and putting tile down.

Folks it's never ending. No kennel dogs here. If you don't like 1-whatever in your lap don't come over.

Darla, I was going to say no before I re-read my post (Listen/Read/Learn)....I guess I did, well lookie there, even an old blind sow can find an acorn once in a while eh?

G'Day Ken

I sure can relate to the "starting over".  It's literally heartbreaking.  It's like finding out you have an incurable disease...you go in for tests...suspect something and it never really hits home until you are told "Yes the hips are dysplastic" or discover something else is wrong.  Then all the time of not only caring for but, showing, money spent, is all for naught.  Then, you have to realize or come to a decision "Am I a breeder or am I a pet owner?" Had I kept every dog I couldn't breed, I'd have no room for ones I can.  You must be willing to let go.  It took almost a year to place 2 of mine..but they are in wonderful homes now and I am happy.  I love the breed and want to be a part of making it better, so I must let some dogs go...it's hard....very hard.

Good Advice Ken

Jeff/Janet

I just finished my doggie yard (well, me and hubby...OKAY hubby did MOST of the work)...80' x 100'.  It's wonderful and the doggies LOVE IT.  Hey you got a website the link here won't work for me.

Kate,

Jeff and Janet (J&J) are "Gold Rush" www.goldrushkennels.com/

This thread has me baffled. Like so many recently. Here is some one asking if it too soon for her dog to be bred. (obiviously it is. and it seems like the dog is already bred!) Too bad, more pups that may or may not have homes, and may or may not be in good health. ~ To going to 4-H projects, which are a different situation, totally. ~ Geez, no wonder information gets so lost here. People can't stick to the original question. Thanks to all the breeders that added their input, but somewhere it has been lost.

This thread has me baffled. Like so many recently. Here is some one asking if it too soon for her dog to be bred. (obiviously it is. and it seems like the dog is already bred!) Too bad, more pups that may or may not have homes, and may or may not be in good health. ~ To going to 4-H projects, which are a different situation, totally. ~ Geez, no wonder information gets so lost here. People can't stick to the original question. Thanks to all the breeders that added their input, but somewhere it has been lost.

Just to restate.......