Ok Ok...I believe you're all not Hottie Tottie Breeders and you all sound like you are working towards improving the whole dog not just the outward appearance...Barbiet I would love to come see a show with you don't think I will make the NC show but hopefully we will run into each other sometime...i just wish you could all see that you don't have to show to be good owners, and just because you do doesn't make you one...

My heart goes out to Rattie Tattie. Coming from a working dog background I have come across way to many good dogs with hip displacia...I agree with breeding for comformation and soundness, but correct working comformation not the exagerated angulation you see in some sheppards.

Temperment is definetly something that is fixable but only to a degree. That kind of training is very fragile it's not a permenant fix by any stretch. Just like fetch drive and tracking are much easier to train if there is a inherited desire, people have trained forced retrieves and forced tracking for years. If you look at some older training books that was the method of choice, just like compulsion training was for obedience. We have come along way and breeding and new techniques have made many things easier and better for our 4 legged partners

I never said I wasn't for improving the breed I am lot's of responces make it seem like I'm against responsible breeding. I'm all for it, I just don't think you have to be a show kennel to be a responsible breeder.

You lumped me into a catagory thinking because of where I got my pup and who I got her from that I wasn't a responsible person for the breed, and I lumped you into a group of snobish show people only concerned with winning ribbons with no regaurd for what the dog was ment for...

Hopefully some here will see we were both wrong.

Can we call a truce...I believe you are all trying to be good to the breed in your own way. Please believe I am too

By the way Barbiet Canineboss is my email address at yahoo..I've had it for years...it's not a statement of anything other than my first patrol dog's name was "Boss"... He passed a few years back after saving my life, locating lost children and apprehending hundreds of felons...I also have a tattoo on my left arm with a picture of him and his name under it...If his name would have been Rocky...my email address would have probably been caninerocky...

Canineboss...So much is lost when we attempt to have discussions of this nature through text format. I actually think we are all right... but perhaps are expressing our views in different ways from different perspectives.

yes... we've made HUGE strides in our training methods. The professional K9 trainer I worked with for several years and still work with occasionally... says you can MAKE a dog do most anything, but the key to real success is to inspire the dog WANT to do anything for you. I believe this... and it's what I strive for.

So I can speak only from the training side of things. I'm not a breeder. I have never bred a dog and don't intend to. I leave that to those who are much more knowledgeable than I am. I'll stick to the training end of things...

I don't think you are against responsible breeding. I doubt there is anyone on this forum who is against or who doesn't fully support responsible breeding. My point was merely to say that responsible breeding WILL make a breed better so that a dog CAN do the work it was intended to do...or the work their humans want them to do (such as activities including agility, flyball, tracking, protection work, etc.). A dog who has inherited poor hips as a result of irresponsible breeding... cannot do the work he's intended to do. (german shepherds are prime examples).   I believe... and will always believe... that a dog that is involved in an activity and/or is exercised regularly .. is happier.  Dogs were never intended to be what they so often become - couch potatoes.

Rat terriers... despite our attempts to make them as "human" as possible... are definitely a working breed... same as german shepherds are. Some breeds are more adaptable than others... and the rat terrier has adapted well to being companion dogs rather than the working/farm dogs they were originally bred to be. Our culture has changed... and these dogs (as well as so many other breeds) have adapted beautifully over the years to accommodate that culture. But... the basic drive... the basic personalities... of the various breeds go back a LONG way.. before the days of apartment complexes and concrete driveways.

So I truly do believe we're all saying the same thing.. just coming from different directions maybe. I'm not one to stereotype people or dogs...or "lump" people into categories. The opinions I expressed come from the experiences I have had (some good... some bad)... the research I've done...canine behavior courses I've taken... etc.

Discussions such as these need to happen openly and honestly... without hard feelings or anyone getting defensive.

Now that having been said... I still think breeding ANY dog at the age of 8 months is clearly WRONG !!

" I still think breeding ANY dog at the age of 8 months is clearly WRONG !!"

Ditto...

Like I said in my first responce, I agree 8 months is way to young to breed a dog. I just thought the person should have been treated better. There are many experienced breeders on this site that could have given her places to find information and maybe places to go or people to talk to, that would help her come to the best decision...I think most people will come to the right decision when given good information. It was obvioius that this person was not experienced and greatly needed the help of the members of this site. I hope she sticks around and finds the information she needs.