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Subject: I need help finding a Rat Terrier Rescue Group near Kansas City
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Author Messages
AprilRain


Rat Royalty
Rat Royalty
01/07/2008 1:20 PM  

A friend told me of this site and I thought Id come here. I have a rat terrier thats a year and a half old that has human aggression problems. My trainer doesnt feel theres much left she can do for him and frankly I dont want to put him down if theres a rescue that can help him.

He charged at my Friday night with hackles up ears back teeth showing and tried bitting me many times. He had peed on the floor and I called his name to get him to stop. I came out of the kitchen grabbed his leash and the next I knew he was running at me snapping and then took off down the hall. I stood there for a moment like um ok and then calmly walked down the hall way to get him. He sat there in the same way I said he was and every move I made caused him to lunge and snap again. I couldnt reach for him without him trying to take a chunk of my hand. I sat at the end of the hall in tears with my trainer on the phone. She said shed come out again to evaluate him again, but doubted there was much more she could do. My boyfriend came home and then my dog did a 180 and acted like nothing happened.

Thats the 1st time hes tried attacking me. He has bit me before because his foot was stuck and I was helping to get it free. Hes bitten, and drawn blood, on my boyfriend a couple times, bitten my mom, but she cant ever keep her stories straight that I think she might have provoked that.

Ever since I got him I saw he had problems with people for some odd reason, so I kept him social and in the public, especially around men. But then he met my mothers husband, saw how ugly he was, even terrorized my dog when he was in his kennel because he had wined, watched my mothers husband yell and scream at her and me and just be totally ugle. Hes been away from my mothers husband since May but nothing got better. Now when were outside and people walk by, I have to keep him very close to me in fear he might try to bite them.

After Friday night I am honestly scared of my dog. My best friend had turned against me for a reason that I dont know, just an unknown trigger. My boyfriend trainer and I had talked in Nov about his problem and we had agreed to give it one more shot. Now about two months later we dont feel we can do anything more. Id honestly hate and it breaks my heart to think about putting him down if I can give him to a rescue that can help him.

AprilRain


Rat Royalty
Rat Royalty
01/07/2008 1:26 PM  
I also spoke to a behavioralist today that my vet told me to talk to and he didnt shine much light. Just said the same thing as my trainer and her boss, more than likely biological...
BonitaKaz


Bratty Ratty
Bratty Ratty
01/07/2008 1:51 PM  
If it is biological, your vet has nothing that could help him?

*Bonita* Mom to Nibbler & Laika!
AprilRain


Rat Royalty
Rat Royalty
01/07/2008 1:54 PM  
We just saw my vet Sat because he had the hershey squirts from changing food and I told my vet his history and what happened Friday and he said "Here go talk to Dr Hunthausen and see what he has to say." and I talked to him today
BonitaKaz


Bratty Ratty
Bratty Ratty
01/07/2008 2:02 PM  
That's interesting.
I really feel for you, I wish that we can get a clue on this. We have one poster, Nora, who is excellent with training ideas. Hopefully she'll take a look at this thread.

*Bonita* Mom to Nibbler & Laika!
AprilRain


Rat Royalty
Rat Royalty
01/07/2008 2:08 PM  
I dont know what more can honestly be done with what I feel as a "middle man" Ive tried and tried everything Ive been told so has my boyfriend, but in the time Ive had him, Ive seen him have good times, then plumit south in what seems lower than where he was. I called the humand society I used to work at before I moved and talked to the volunteer coordinator there and cried my eyes out on her today because she knew my dog when I first got him and if she saw him now I think the only way shed remember him is by markings. I feel like Ive screwed up somewhere with him. But Ive also heard people say Ratties are for everyone and maybe thats my case for me...
SuzieRedhead


Rat-A-Tat-Tat
Rat-A-Tat-Tat
01/07/2008 2:10 PM  

Has your vet done an entire physical exam, including bloodwork to make sure it's not health related?  I'm with a Rat Terrier rescue organization, and to be perfectly honest, it will be very difficult for you to find a rescue that will take a dog with this type of behaviorial background. 

I have been in your situation with my own dog, so I know how difficult this decision is. I had Spot for almost 2 years and after a few months, I called in a trainer because Spot had bitten me several times, and his aggression had only gotten worse no matter what I did to help him. I did everything - meds, training, you name it. He finally started getting aggressive with my other animals, so I contacted my trainer again, and she suggested that I give him up to a rescue who could possibly help him because my trainer thought perhaps the new fostermom, who was a dog trainer, could give Spot the guidance and training he needed to get him back on track. Unfortunately, I found out a few weeks later that they had to euthanize Spot because his aggression was just too severe. My trainer told me that Spot was no longer happy because the behavior these dogs exhibit aren't how they want to be, just sometimes they're not wired right. I am haunted by this only because I wish I was the one who had him euthanized, because Spot was MY dog and I wish I had his remains, and although I was hoping I was giving him this one last chance at life by giving him up to rescue, it wasn't meant to be.

I think Cesar Milan is a wonderful trainer and produces miracles with some pretty aggressive animals, but unfortunately, we all don't have his skills. If you feel you have done everything you can to help him, and you feel your only alternative is having him euthanized, don't feel guilty. Dogs that behave that way are not happy.

Good luck,

Sue in NY


Sue Carello, Scotia, NY (near Albany)
Ratbone Rescues Fostermom, etc...
www.ratbonerescues.com
Fostermom to Oh Mickey and Prince Ratbone

Who do YOU GoodSearch/GoodShop for? Go to www.goodsearch.com and type in Ratbone Rescues!
AprilRain


Rat Royalty
Rat Royalty
01/07/2008 2:18 PM  
My boyfriend and I want to do everything we can to give our rattie the best life. Maybe our life is too crazy for him and its reflecting off him I dont know. I really would hate to put him down if theres hope somewhere for him.
And I would more than likely be upset too if he was given a chance elsewhere and then put down and I couldnt have the ashes like with you and your dog but at least I tried all avenues before giving up. Im confused and my family just tells me "Its your choice and well support you" other people bash me and tell me that I dont have control of my dog and Im a horrible person. and that just adds to the confusion
BonitaKaz


Bratty Ratty
Bratty Ratty
01/07/2008 2:29 PM  
You won't be bashed here, you seem to be attempting to find the best possible route for him.

*Bonita* Mom to Nibbler & Laika!
AprilRain


Rat Royalty
Rat Royalty
01/07/2008 2:33 PM  
thanks
SuzieRedhead


Rat-A-Tat-Tat
Rat-A-Tat-Tat
01/07/2008 2:36 PM  

Have you tried taking all privileges away from him?  No couch, no bed - nothing.  Crate him when he misbehaves?  Do you feel you are the alpha of the house?

Spot was on human prozac for many months.  You can see if your vet thinks that will help.  Also have blood work done to see if there's something medical going on.  Prozac seemed to curb Spot's aggression somewhat, but just like people, I believe he built a tolerance to the drug, and his aggression finally escalated.  He had no other medical issues.  The thing with Spot is that he was the most loving little dog, until I did something he didn't like, which could have been anything, and then he'd bite without any warning.  Dogs like that are dangerous. 

Spot came from a Boston shelter, pulled by a fomer rescue member.  I offered to foster him, and the first night I had him he bit me 3 times.  I contacted the shelter and asked if I could speak to the owners who surrendered him because nobody told me that this dog had a biting history. Spot was only about a year and a half old. I spoke to the owners and the told me that yes, Spot had bitten a few people before, but they didn't tell the shelter because they knew he'd be euthanized if they did. These people made Spot's problem someone else's (mine). Because Spot was a liability to Ratbone, I adopted him myself because I wanted to do everything I could to try to help him, and I wasn't ready to have him euthanized until I knew I tried everything I could.

You are not a horrible person.  The fact that you are looking for other alternatives to help shows that you care.  See if your vet thinks prozac is a good idea.  It's pretty inexpensive.  I got mine at Wal-Mart - 10 mgs - 30 tablets was only like $6.00.  He was on 1/2 tablet twice daily.

Sue in NY


Sue Carello, Scotia, NY (near Albany)
Ratbone Rescues Fostermom, etc...
www.ratbonerescues.com
Fostermom to Oh Mickey and Prince Ratbone

Who do YOU GoodSearch/GoodShop for? Go to www.goodsearch.com and type in Ratbone Rescues!
AprilRain


Rat Royalty
Rat Royalty
01/07/2008 2:43 PM  
He checks out all clear as far as health issues. And for Meds I dont really want to take that path because it only covers up the problem it doesnt fix it; a "temp fix" and I dont want that because I wouldnt trust it and Id still worry and wonder when something would go south again. And my vet also expressed that hes kinda against that too.
As far as getting things taken away, he always gets things taken away when in trouble, more times it means in the kennel he goes, especially with my boyfriend. When hes done something wrong Im usually mad or miffed at him or whatever so the best for everyone is being in the kennel
SuzieRedhead


Rat-A-Tat-Tat
Rat-A-Tat-Tat
01/07/2008 3:00 PM  

The decision is yours, April. You can try to find a rescue who will take him, but I believe it will be very difficult because of his behaviorial history. My trainer suggested the rescue I gave Spot to because she knew the woman who would foster him and thought she would be able to help him. Even my trainer didn't realize the extent of Spot's aggressive behavior. And believe me, I am able to handle strong personality dogs. I have another dog, Sasha, who was and still is a challenge, even at 19 years old. She had also bitten me a few times, but she is a displaced biter - usually biting whatever is closest to whatever annoys her when not correcting another dog (she's my alpha). Unfortunately, she has bitten me a few times, but I am aware of this behavior, and I am able usually to foresee when it could possibly happen to avoid the situation altogether or avoid her biting me by getting out of the way! Sasha warns before she bites. But Spot would just bite unprovoked and without warning for reasons I couldn't figure out.

If you decide to euthanize, please don't feel guilty. If you feel the need to try another trainer, then try that. Nobody can make the finaly decision for you, unfortunately.

Good luck,

Sue in NY


Sue Carello, Scotia, NY (near Albany)
Ratbone Rescues Fostermom, etc...
www.ratbonerescues.com
Fostermom to Oh Mickey and Prince Ratbone

Who do YOU GoodSearch/GoodShop for? Go to www.goodsearch.com and type in Ratbone Rescues!
AprilRain


Rat Royalty
Rat Royalty
01/07/2008 3:29 PM  
I just talked to another trainer that works with the humane society I used to volunteer at and the things he said to try have already been done. He then said just to "get down into the nitty gritty. If youve got to get aggressive with him and swat him for something then do it" but I believe my dog has been abused because because he cowers to me when hes in trouble and I feel if being "aggressive" to him would make this 100 times worse for both of us.
Why cant there just be a magic wand that has "fit it all" written on it?
BonitaKaz


Bratty Ratty
Bratty Ratty
01/07/2008 3:31 PM  
Hmm... if he's been abused in the past that may account with his aggression, espeically considering what he with through with your mom's husband (i'm assuming he's a step parent). I dont think the answer is to swat him, to be honest I'm surprised a trainer would even recommend this.

*Bonita* Mom to Nibbler & Laika!
DaisysMom


Moderator
<b>Moderator</b>
01/07/2008 3:33 PM  
I don't think responding with your aggression is a viable option AT ALL...and can't respect any so-called trainer who would say such a thing. Are you in Kansas City, Missouri?

Tracey - Darlin' Daisy's Mom

AprilRain


Rat Royalty
Rat Royalty
01/07/2008 3:38 PM  
I dont agree with the guy either. I always hated when I was little seeing my grand/parents hit the dogs for pottying or whatever in the house
yes Im in KC MO
DaisysMom


Moderator
<b>Moderator</b>
01/07/2008 3:43 PM  
Have you heard of these trainers:

http://www.caninecurriculum.com/

They seem to have some experience with aggression?

Tracey - Darlin' Daisy's Mom

SuzieRedhead


Rat-A-Tat-Tat
Rat-A-Tat-Tat
01/07/2008 3:44 PM  
Posted By AprilRain on 01/07/2008 3:29 PM
I just talked to another trainer that works with the humane society I used to volunteer at and the things he said to try have already been done. He then said just to "get down into the nitty gritty. If youve got to get aggressive with him and swat him for something then do it" but I believe my dog has been abused because because he cowers to me when hes in trouble and I feel if being "aggressive" to him would make this 100 times worse for both of us.
Why cant there just be a magic wand that has "fit it all" written on it?



OMG - aggression BREEDS aggression - not good advice at all!!

Sue in NY


Sue Carello, Scotia, NY (near Albany)
Ratbone Rescues Fostermom, etc...
www.ratbonerescues.com
Fostermom to Oh Mickey and Prince Ratbone

Who do YOU GoodSearch/GoodShop for? Go to www.goodsearch.com and type in Ratbone Rescues!
AprilRain


Rat Royalty
Rat Royalty
01/07/2008 3:46 PM  
Posted By SuzieRedhead on 01/07/2008 3:44 PM
Posted By AprilRain on 01/07/2008 3:29 PM
I just talked to another trainer that works with the humane society I used to volunteer at and the things he said to try have already been done. He then said just to "get down into the nitty gritty. If youve got to get aggressive with him and swat him for something then do it" but I believe my dog has been abused because because he cowers to me when hes in trouble and I feel if being "aggressive" to him would make this 100 times worse for both of us.
Why cant there just be a magic wand that has "fit it all" written on it?



OMG - aggression BREEDS aggression - not good advice at all!!

Sue in NY


exactly
SuzieRedhead


Rat-A-Tat-Tat
Rat-A-Tat-Tat
01/07/2008 3:46 PM  
Posted By DaisysMom on 01/07/2008 3:43 PM
Have you heard of these trainers:

http://www.caninecurriculum.com/

They seem to have some experience with aggression?



Dang, Tracey, you're good! 

Sue in NY


Sue Carello, Scotia, NY (near Albany)
Ratbone Rescues Fostermom, etc...
www.ratbonerescues.com
Fostermom to Oh Mickey and Prince Ratbone

Who do YOU GoodSearch/GoodShop for? Go to www.goodsearch.com and type in Ratbone Rescues!
AprilRain


Rat Royalty
Rat Royalty
01/07/2008 3:46 PM  
Posted By DaisysMom on 01/07/2008 3:43 PM
Have you heard of these trainers:

http://www.caninecurriculum.com/

They seem to have some experience with aggression?



one of my trainers is from there. She works at a shelter also that offers free training and I use her through the shelter

jingebri


Terrier Terror
Terrier Terror
01/09/2008 12:45 PM  
April,
I know how you feel when you say you are afraid of your dog. Izzy has aggression problems that seem to get better with time, but he has attacked both me and my boyfriend multiple times and has drawn blood.
When you said he snapped after peeing in the house, it sounds exactly like my dog. Any time you catch him doing something wrong, like pottying in the house for instance - he gets really aggressive.
I'm sorry your having these problems and I wish something would have worked for you. It sounds like you have tried everything you can.
I hope you find a good home or rescue group.

-Jen-
mama to Izzy
AprilRain


Rat Royalty
Rat Royalty
01/09/2008 1:41 PM  
Posted By jingebri on 01/09/2008 12:45 PM
April,
I know how you feel when you say you are afraid of your dog. Izzy has aggression problems that seem to get better with time, but he has attacked both me and my boyfriend multiple times and has drawn blood.
When you said he snapped after peeing in the house, it sounds exactly like my dog. Any time you catch him doing something wrong, like pottying in the house for instance - he gets really aggressive.
I'm sorry your having these problems and I wish something would have worked for you. It sounds like you have tried everything you can.
I hope you find a good home or rescue group.



That was honestly the 1st time he came after me for pottying in the house. I dont know what triggered him or anything. But I have found a lady that wants to take him into her home and work with him. Shes taken in abused and aggressive dogs before. She lives on a nice amount of land, a lot of it fenced in for her dogs. Its her, a couple horses, dogs, cats and her son there. Hell have a lot of room to run and play, friends, and quietness. I think hell do A LOT better there than with me. My life is crazy and my poor pup has been through hell the past year. He was moved 3 times do to abusive situations and I feel that thats part of our problem now. I really believe that with this lady hell get a second chance at life and if all goes well a forever home with someone who will love him and supply things I can not for him

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