I agree with no shock collar.  While it has its place and purpose, I don't think it is the right tool on the hands of an inexperienced user.  I have seen that happen before with a young man who lived downstairs from me in a old apartment.  He bought one for his dog because he would run away so he though it would work to get his attentiona nd make him come back (shoulda been on a leash anyways.)  The poor dogs spirit is broken and while you state Scott  that all it takes is a "push of a button and a "No" ", I don't agree that that is all there is to it.  To these little dogs it can be ALL it takes to break their spirit in a matter of minutes and severely traumatize them.  If this is the route that is chosen....PLEASE invest in a behavior trainer along with it that to help and teach you how to work with it BEFORE you use it. It can be devastating in the hands of someone who has no knowledge on how to use it.

I just wanted to add that this dog is in no means agressive so a little training could go along way by itself.  A constant lead on the dog so she can stop the dog from jumping would work if done consistantly.   jmo

Whoa, yep I agree "push a button and say no" is not good for an inexperienced dog owner to try with a shock collar!  Ok, I'm not a dog trainer (I'm a horse trainer) BUT I've seen lots of messed up horses that inexperienced owners have messed up by using equipment that has it's place in the hands of a professional, experienced rider/trainer but can be torture equipment in the wrong hands.  I'm sure it's the same with dogs - I actually think my newest dog Skipper had his throat injured at some point by a choke collar....either on purpose or using it incorrectly!

Now, I'm not saying a shock collar is a bad thing.  I've heard enough to know they have their place and serve a purpose when used by an experienced person.  But, If I ever decided I had to use a shock collar for some reason I would go to a dog trainer for instruction because I've never used one.   

I'm comfortable with a chain collar but I would not recommend it to a new dog owner.  In the wrong hands a chain collar can injure a dog.  There are so many other methods out there and ratties are smart! 

Wow, it sounds like things are going well for Nelly so far. 

I 100% agree that a shock collar should be the LAST resort and under a professional trainers care. 

Nora is our training moderator and I have worked with her personally on Mario when I visited her. I have tremendous respect for her training methods and advice.  I hold Nora's word as gold and would trust her with my dog's life.  PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE follow Nora's advice first.  She is wonderful and will help you through this. 

Nelly sounds really great and with some training and consistency, I know you'll have a wonderful dog. 

Here we go again.  First of all, shock collar is NOT the correct term.  They are called Remote Training Collars.  How many of you have invisible fences -- it's pretty much the same thing.  I have a remote training collar that I have used on both Dixie and Katie.  I read the instructions, watched the video and went to work.  The correction is slight.  If the dog is doing something it should not be doing, like jumping up and biting, the correction with the remote collar is about the same as training the dog to stay inside the fence of the invisible fence.  They get a correction and with the proper training along with the correction, they learn to not do the behavior or "cross the fence".  They even have tone only, so once the training is accomplished, the tone will do the same thing.   People really do go nuts when they hear the term "shock collar", but most of these people have never used one or had any exposure to one.  It is a preconceived idea that it is a terrible thing, and it is an incorrect perception.   JMO.

In my opinion, this is not a situation of one person against another...or one training method against another, regardless of the "name" for it.

I'm not opposed at all to "remote training collars", and in fact... have used one and trained with one.  I obtained the desired results with the collar I used... I now can call Bailey from the lower end of a hay field and say the command "come" and he never hesitates ... he comes running.  I knew I had to instill/train this response in him... develop his recall... or he would end up getting killed.  I felt I had no choice... because after several months of using the conventional method... I was not being totally successful.  But as Jan clearly pointed out...."they get a correction and with the proper training along with the correction,  they learn to not do the behavior"  Well, on the flip side of that is that they can learn TO DO the behavior you are seeking as well as NOT do the behavior you are attempting to eliminate.  (key word -- "proper training"

So don't  mistake my stance on this issue.  I am not afraid of remote training collars, and I believe they have their place and serve a purpose, the same as any other training aid.  

However, I still contend that a dog's temperment... a dog's background/history (which sometimes is unknown)... the handler or owner's experience with dogs in general... all should be taken into consideration.   I've seen dogs "broken" by the MISuse of training aids, and it's a sad thing to watch, and the end result often cannot be reversed, unfortunately.

So... as with ANY training aid... figure out as best you can what training aid is needed for your own dog, if any (seek professional help if you need to... as I myself did).  If, after you evaluate your dog and the situation, you feel it's necessary to purchase and use a remote training collar... then do so.  But I still stand by my original opinion that if you have no training experience... no dog experience....and the dog has had no training at all.... seek professional help with it.

With a remote training collar... unlike a shock rendered to a dog via an invisible fence... the dog does not control when he/she gets the shock... the human does.  I've seen people (and yes... trainers)  who think if one shock works well, then several should work better!  And... if a slight shock receives results, then perhaps a stronger shock wave would have even better effects, so the handler lays down on the remote and gives one shock after another and practically lays the dog down on the ground.  If you've ever witnessed something like this... you don't forget it... ever.

So I stand on the side of caution... and I stand on the side of proper training... regardless of WHAT training device you choose.

There will always be differences of opinion when it comes to training your dog.  I personally used a Remote Training Collar with Batman as it was recommended by both my veterinarian and obedience instructor.  However, after purchasing the collar we did go through a few training sessions with the instructor on how to use the collar and what would be considered inappropriate use.  As with any method, not using it in the correct manner can result in far worse results than you started with.  Good Luck and hope your doggie is progressing. 

Agreed!!  And I don't think anyone here meant it to come across that they are, just that in this situation it is not a very good idea.  At least not as the first step or with out the aid of someone who knows how to properl use them.  This is a rescued dog that needs to trust his owners before being negatively reinforced.  As with the fence, it is a result (immediate) of the dog crossing the "border".  The "remote training device" is left to the hands of the person holding it and can very easily be overdone.

Ok, y'all, is all stir from my post???  Because I never called remote collars "torture devices"!!!   For God's sake if you read my post I said sometimes HORSE TRAINING EQUIPMENT IN THE WRONG HANDS CAN BE TORTURE EQUIPMENT.  And that is true, I've seen it, horses standing for hours with their head yanked to the side and tied to the saddle, horses with permanent problems in the neck or back from being over ridden in draw reins or other reins to keep the head down, etc.  Maybe that was a bad choice of words or maybe I didn't make my post clear enough....I was simply saying that in this situation something else might be more appropriate.

I also said I would get instruction if I ever wanted to use one of these.  But maybe that's not necessary for an experienced animal person - from what some of you are saying the shock is not very strong if at all. 

The thing here is that in this situation, where a person has no experience with dog owning, let alone training, it could be detrimental.  Ok, the shock isn't harmful so nothing will physically hurt the dog....I didn't understand that before.  You still need to have your "timing" down....the correction has to be exactly at the right moment for the dog to "get it".  And this goes for any type of device used - choke collar, prong collar, even shaking a jar of pennies.

Sounds like you're doing GREAT!  I am happy for you guys and it sounds like your daughter is even getting the hang of this training thing! lol  Good for you, keep up the great work and keep usposted on your progress.....Sorry we got sidetracked

This isn't a post about remote training collars. This is a post about a lady who has been kind enough to get an adult rat terrier from the shelter and she's needing help with some issues she's having. She's inexperienced and is seeking advice. In this particular situation, I think conventional methods should be tried first... especially since this dog is (1) an adult and (2) came from the shelter and little if any history on this dog is known.

Truth be known... you can make ANY training "device" a "torture device". It's not the device that is the problem.... it's the human that has the device in his/her hands that creates the issue. You can take a small nylon collar and make a "torture device" out of it.

My WHOLE point when attempting responses to this kind lady... is to try positive training methods... conventional training methods... first. And she's doing that, and obviously is having success with it. I ALWAYS try these methods first. It was only when the conventional method did NOT work with Bailey that I turned to a remote training collar... and then got help with it from a professional before I attempted to use it on my own.

That's the whole key here, in my opinion. Even with an invisible fence, there has to be some training involved. You don't just install an invisible fence, put the remote collar on the dog and do nothing. You train the dog to the fence... and it takes several sessions (or at least it did with me when I trained my german shepherds to our invisible fence). Same thing with a remote training collar (aka shock collar). I would never EVER recommend that an inexperienced person... inexperienced with training or with dogs in general.... go get one... push a button and say "no".

Again... the key word here is TRAINING. Regardless of WHAT device a person uses... if any.

I am thrilled to learn that Nellie is doing so well as a result of your efforts.  Yes... these efforts do take time, but once the correct behaviors are instilled in your dog, you'll have a wonderful companion for the rest of her life.  Please feel free to ask questions and keep us posted.

Hi chitown and welcome to the site. I think you are doing very well with your pup and perhaps even spraying with a water bottle when the jumping is going on might help. I don't think a shock collar is needed here by any means. Sometimes Abby's tooth will catch my lip or nose when she is playfully kissing me and I certainly wouldn't even consider a shock collar for her. and please don't be alarmed by the "tenseness" of some of the posts in this thread. there are just certain people who think their way is the only way and that is SO NOT TRUE!! I hope you can overlook all that foolishness and come back and post often and enjoy being a part of our family!! Good luck with your baby and I feel SURE you will get this issue under control in your own way!!

Abby says thank you VERY much!! ( I am kinda partial to the little hussy!) Your Nelly is quite handsome himself!!

Ok, y'all, is all stir from my post???  Because I never called remote collars "torture devices"!!!   For God's sake if you read my post I said sometimes HORSE TRAINING EQUIPMENT IN THE WRONG HANDS CAN BE TORTURE EQUIPMENT.  And that is true, I've seen it, horses standing for hours with their head yanked to the side and tied to the saddle, horses with permanent problems in the neck or back from being over ridden in draw reins or other reins to keep the head down, etc.  Maybe that was a bad choice of words or maybe I didn't make my post clear enough....I was simply saying that in this situation something else might be more appropriate.

I also said I would get instruction if I ever wanted to use one of these.  But maybe that's not necessary for an experienced animal person - from what some of you are saying the shock is not very strong if at all. 

The thing here is that in this situation, where a person has no experience with dog owning, let alone training, it could be detrimental.  Ok, the shock isn't harmful so nothing will physically hurt the dog....I didn't understand that before.  You still need to have your "timing" down....the correction has to be exactly at the right moment for the dog to "get it".  And this goes for any type of device used - choke collar, prong collar, even shaking a jar of pennies.