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Ratty Messages
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Recent 'Just Chat'
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If you need help, or have questions, comments or suggestions, please post in the Rat-Terrier.com Info and Help forum.
General Moderators:
Lance
Morgan
Tracey
Contest Girl:
Jan
Training Moderator:
Nora
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You're Not Alone
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Ratties Run For President Click Here for Details
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Rat-Terrier.com
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Mitzy's Mom
Pack Leader
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| 04/13/2007 11:30 AM |
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Nora sent me this chapter of her dog training book (j/k but I think she should write a book) when I had questions about my new male dog and marking. She's given me permission to post it on here for anyone who might have questions on this. I really appreciate the time she took to write it all out in an easy to comprehend way...explaining WHY they mark, etc.
Here it is:
"Ok... I'm gonna give this my best shot. It's complicated and if you were here I could show you so much more easily than to try to explain via text.
The very first step is to understand the "reason" for the marking, and to try to understand that dogs do not consider urine marking as being anything bad like humans do.... same as rolling in something dead or rolling in cow poop is a form of "marking" for dogs... it's one of several ways a dog steps up to offer his life if necessary to protect his pack. It's like him saying "this is under my protection".
Dogs do not consider elimination to be an insult. On the contrary, the dog who urine marks may well be stepping up to offer his life if necessary to protect his pack. Instead of saying “Get out of here, new baby,” he may be saying, “This small one, too, is under my protection.”
Have you ever watched how a male dog urinates along the fence, outside the marks of all the girls. Sometimes my male dogs will go over and urinate over the spot where Lil'Bit has just urinated—or, oops, hasn’t quite finished! She doesn't mind.... in fact the male dogs' action makes her feel more secure. How confusing it must be for a dog whose owner flies into a hissy fit at the same action!
So urine marking has to be taken in context in order to get some idea of the cause in any given situation. Of course, we never know everything about the cause. Dogs are complex, with some behaviors being strongly instinctive and some learned. Like humans, they do things automatically at times, and at other times they have an intent to do it. Dogs do NOT do things in "spite" or "anger." Fear, protectiveness, excitement, prey drive, bonding, and other survival instinst are much more likely explanations.
In nature, urine marking provides boundary signs for a pack. When humans say dogs are social animals, they think of dogs living in the wild happily ever after... playing.... NOT TRUE. They are pack aimals. They form separate social groups to cooperate for survival, which includes hunting for food as well as rearing their young. A pack has a territory it defends from other canines. Urine smells help males/females find each other at mating time. Male dogs are drawn to the scent. A male's urine sends messages to the female. A dog who has not been neutered will probably have a lot of difficulty refraining from urine marking in the house. At any rate, urine marking is not about us humans... dogs are NOT trying to tell us things by urinating in the house other than perhaps they are sick, or that they are willing to give their lives to protect us. Some of OUR choices cause our dogs to have problems with urine marking, but they don't do it in spite or anger towards us. In order to change the behavior.... I think it's imperative to understand the behavior. That's the reason for everything I've typed above.
Now... how to handle it.....
Urine marking is a housetraining matter... where urinary incontinence, illness, submissive urination are NOT housetraining issues. If you handle it with the same supervision, scent control, alertness to triggers, praise, and other basics you use to properly housetrain a dog in the first place. It's a "partnership" of sorts... you partner with the dog to make sure he gets the help he needs from you. You realize his instincts are causing the behavior... not some willful intention to insult you. It's not about you.
Even the most housetrained, neutered male dogs will urine mark under certain circumstances, and it doesn't mean this will become a regular problem. When this hapens, douse the spot with clear, undiluted vinegar. It's not uncommon for a dog to mark when visiting inside someone else's home, and you should ALWAYS keep him with you on a leash to prevent this. He very well might mark anyplace you take him unless you handle him in a way that prevents it.
Always, before leaving with the dog, take him to the spot he normally urinates in and cue him to urinate "go potty"... or whatever verbal command you use. Even when you are out walking, interrupt him from lingering too long to check out scents that might trigger urination (you'll get familiar with the body posture!)... simply move the walk along. When you return home... again take him to his spot. Do this every single time you have an outing. If he is not expecting to urine mark on a walk outside, it will become easier for the dog to understand he's not to do it in someone else's house... at a dog event.... or wherever else he is.
Mary Beth, many small male dogs will present some degree of challenge with the urine marking issue, but you can keep your home clean and free of urine odor with good management. Larger male breeds have fewer issues... their bladders are larger and they are simply less prone to it. I think most trainers would agree with this. But it can be controlled... if the dog is taken immediately to the "right" and "same" place every time... to make his mark."
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Mary Beth, mom to Mitzy, Mayfly, Skipper, Skeeter and Loco
RBR Foster Mom
www.ratbonerescues.com |
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DaisysMom
Moderator
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| 04/13/2007 11:31 AM |
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| Great advice, Nora. Thanks for posting, MB. And I've just "pinned it" to the top :) |
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Tracey - Darlin' Daisy's Mom
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Alpha Rattie
Ratastic
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| 04/30/2007 1:02 PM |
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i have a question tho, beejii is "cut" but he marks alot, he will mark where gracie goes and just at the BARK IN THE PARK event we went to he marked the stroller. crystal was really mad at that but i stopped her from reprimanding him ( was i wrong) gracie mae was getting her chip implanted and shortly b4 he makred squealed in pian was him marking in response to that ??? or was it more to telthe dogs arond us " this is mine"
he doesnt mark in the house at all but marks our fenceline and one of our ca tires when we go places. im not really trying to stop him , just understand it more. and is it just instinct or does a nuetered male still have the scent of a regular dog |
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rattytatty
Newbie
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| 04/30/2007 1:36 PM |
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If Beeji is urine marking only outside... you have a less severe problem. Try a belly band when you take him out.
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Alpha Rattie
Ratastic
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| 04/30/2007 1:38 PM |
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| not to sound stupid here but what is a belly band??? like what they do to bulls in bullriding ??? |
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Mitzy's Mom
Pack Leader
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| 04/30/2007 1:42 PM |
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I don't know if neutered dogs smell the same as unneutered but as far as marking the stroller, I know it's gross and I can understand Crystal getting mad but check out this little bit from Nora's post to me on marking:
"The very first step is to understand the "reason" for the marking, and to try to understand that dogs do not consider urine marking as being anything bad like humans do.... same as rolling in something dead or rolling in cow poop is a form of "marking" for dogs... it's one of several ways a dog steps up to offer his life if necessary to protect his pack. It's like him saying "this is under my protection".
Dogs do not consider elimination to be an insult. On the contrary, the dog who urine marks may well be stepping up to offer his life if necessary to protect his pack. Instead of saying “Get out of here, new baby,” he may be saying, “This small one, too, is under my protection.” "
From that I would say Beeji was being protective of Gracie Mae and your family when he marked. It's a dog thing. I'm sure Nora will have the advice on what to do.
My Skipper marks a lot in the yard but never in the house. He was only neutered in Feb. so he had at least 2 years of life as an intact male. He always pees where my girls pee, too. He actually peed on my shoe once when we were walking but it was just 'cause I didn't move out of the way quick enough!
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Mary Beth, mom to Mitzy, Mayfly, Skipper, Skeeter and Loco
RBR Foster Mom
www.ratbonerescues.com |
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rattytatty
Newbie
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Alpha Rattie
Ratastic
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| 04/30/2007 1:49 PM |
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| oooo is a diaper LOL .......... he doesnt mark IN the house just outside around the fencelineand other outside area's |
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Katie'sMom
Newbie
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| 04/30/2007 1:57 PM |
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| I know that neutered males still "mark" -- if he's not marking inside then I don't see that it is a problem. I've never seen a male dog, neutered or not, that didn't mark outside. |
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Jeff
Bratty Ratty
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| 04/30/2007 2:04 PM |
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Posted By Alpha Rattie on 04/30/2007 1:49 PM
oooo is a diaper LOL .......... he doesnt mark IN the house just outside around the fencelineand other outside area's
what i think Nora meant was,when you take him places like Bark In The Park,the belly band will prevent him from marking on things he shouldn't 
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Being a smarta** is better than being a dumba**
http://www.bonusbuy.biz
myspace.com/Jeffery26
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10043207@N02/
http://www.perfspot.com/Jeffery7505 |
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rattytatty
Newbie
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| 04/30/2007 2:04 PM |
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| Marking outside isn't really a problem, unless of course, he marks on something like the stroller, which you certainly don't want him doing. If you catch him in the act..correct the behavior either with a loud verbal command "NO!" and immediately divert his attention to something positive... or squirt him with a water bottle or shake a can with coins in it to get his attention and say "NO!" and immediately divert his attention to something fun and positive. Neutering does not stop urine marking, although it definitely does help. Bailey doesn't urine mark at home (he's neutered), but he does outside and has been known to do so when we've visited other homes. He's gotten better about it, but not to the point where I trust him totally. It's just something male dogs do! |
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Alpha Rattie
Ratastic
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| 04/30/2007 2:05 PM |
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i understood  thx for clearing it up tho |
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Susan
Terrier Terror
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| 07/23/2007 1:07 PM |
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Also for an unnuetered male that is ever used for breeding, He feels like he has to make sure that all the other males know that these are his girls and this is his territory. My experiance is that most do fine in the house as long as no girls are in season. Once the girls start in season, he can't help but mark in the house and its best to have a nice place for him outside during the day and crate him at night. We go to his playyard to play with him and make sure that he has his walks so he isn't bored and unhappy. Girls that are not in heat can play with him too. But all mine seem to go in all at the same time or in sequence!
If your male is not neutered and any female in the neighborhood goes into season same applys. He isn't going to be himself while he can smell her, it is not his fault either. If you are not going to breed your male dog it is easiest on him to neuter him before he figures out girls. |
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ANYTHING WORTH DOING IS WORTH OVERDOING Mom of eight. Pack leader to ten ratties: Maggie, Mysty, Berry, Simon, Ceecee and five puppies, Star,Sari, Bluebelle, Double stuf,and Snortie. As well as Ginger the Border Collie and Taffey the mini Aussie and Taffey's half rattie daughter Nedd (nasty evil devil dog and she really is too). |
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amletpumpkin
Terrier Terror
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| 08/04/2007 11:45 AM |
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| thanks for this post. we recently discovered that amlet has been sneaking into a room and marking all over things. there was a yellow ring around the carpet where the fan was, and he peed on tims playstation. Amlet is very good about peeing outside, but we can tell he's been lifting his leg all over tims things, and even furniture tim normally sits on. We can't figure out why all of a sudden, though. We think it may be because we have both recently started working all day, and he is left alone with pumpkin. We have decided we'll need to crate him during the day, which is something I really hate doing. I need to research some other ways to control this as well. |
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michelle_custer
Terrier Terror
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| 10/09/2007 1:26 PM |
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| domino has been marking lately to but he just strated doing that. hes crated when hubby and i are gone for the day and so is Tank but domnio has marked on hubbys coat and the wall nothing else sense the other day when he marked on hubbys coat but then again i was thinking he needs a little retraning in the potty area maybe or could i be wrong? |
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Id rather have my rattie then any other dog
Mom to Domino and Daisey May
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