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Subject: I'm so frustrated! Skipper problem.....
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Mitzy's Mom


PAWesome
PAWesome
08/18/2007 8:52 AM  

Ok, a little background for those that don't know:  Skipper is a male rat-chi mix we adopted in March...he is 2-3 (according to the shelter but I think he's older) and was neutered in Feb. which means he was an intact male for several years.  He was surrendered because his  eye was injured in a fight with another dog.

Well, he gets along find with new dogs that are female. But any male dog is another story.  Today we met a stray dog in the cemetary, big shepherd mix, intact male.  Dog loved Loco and they played a lot.  I had the 3 little ones on leash.  The male dog, luckily, was very calm and playful.  Never agressive, never had his hackles up, etc. just wanted to hang with us and play.  No collar so I don't where he came from. 

Problem is Skipper got VERY agitated with this male coming near to "his" females.  and when he actually sniffed noses with him he then growled, snapped and ran at the big guy - luckily Big Boy ran.  Unfortunately, that reinforced Skipper's Napolean complex.  He kept getting agitated...I carried him for a way but couldn't carry him all the way back to the car.

What REALLY upsets me is that Mitzy (who is scared of new dogs, especially big ones) was doing so well lately.  And she was even ok with this dog today at first.  She didn't want to play with him but she wasn't terrified like she used to be...she was just walking along with me while he played with Loco.  But after a few times of Skipper trying to attack him the exitement/agitation got to her and she started to growl and bark and run at Big Boy.   Now, this really upsets me because it's fear aggression and she can get killed that way!

Bill suggested walking Skipper alone from now on.  He said the behavior could be corrected but it would take lots of hard work and time - and my biggest hindrance is that I cannot use a collar on Skipper.  Anytime I use a collar it irritates his collapsed trachea so I have to use a Puppia harness which gives me NO control at all.  So, I'll have to walk him separately from the girls and just pick him up if a male approaches.

All this and the shelter told us "he loves cats and gets along with any dog"!!!!WTH???!!  He also attacked our cat....shelters don't do the dogs any favors when they lie like that.


Mary Beth, mom to the Lollipop Kids

Georgia Foster Mom, www.newrattitude.org
Pics of my current fosters:
http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/caradoc
http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/willow
http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/fiona
swatson6


Attention Starved
Attention Starved
08/18/2007 8:57 AM  
I don't know MB....where is NORA? lol I do wonder though, should you be picking Skipper up like that? I would think that somehow that wold reinforce his behavior. Wish I cold help!

Sarah
Mom to Jack, Jeter and foster mom to Teagan



Mitzy's Mom


PAWesome
PAWesome
08/18/2007 9:02 AM  
I agree that picking him up isn't helping...I just do that so he won't fight with the other dog. I don't know what else to do, especially because the puppia harness with pull off of him too easily if he pulls backwards in it...and I don't need him loose and fighting.

Horses are easier! I know how to handle a stud....but this little 12 pound dog is a mess! LOL

Mary Beth, mom to the Lollipop Kids

Georgia Foster Mom, www.newrattitude.org
Pics of my current fosters:
http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/caradoc
http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/willow
http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/fiona
rattytatty


Newbie
Newbie
08/18/2007 9:14 AM  
You are handicapped because you can't use the right type of collar to correct this behavior...(a prong collar used correctly would correct this behavior in very little time) so I agree with your husband that your best way of dealing with this is to walk Skipper alone and try to find some other dogs to take him around. Often people will stand there with their dogs if you ask them to and tell them you are attempting to train your dog. I would also take treats with you on your walks. Everytime he acts aggressive toward another dog, (don't pick him up)... just pull him to the other side of you and make him sit. Or.. move in front of him and make him sit. Give him a treat... reward the sit.... which takes his focus OFF the other dog and puts the focus on you. Be firm.. be what Cesar refers to as "calm assertive"...
Picking him up is not helping the situation... and it's certainly doing nothing to correct the behavior. What you are doing is simply removing him from the situation. If you remove him from the situation, you can't correct it. Right?
Mitzy's Mom


PAWesome
PAWesome
08/18/2007 12:56 PM  
I know picking him up won't accomplish anything, I only did that because I had 2 other dogs on leash and 1 loose dog to keep track of...I was attempting to remove him from the equation as much as possible....I had realized I could not correct him well enough in that situation.

Now I did make him sit a few times, didn't have treats with me though. He would sit for a few seconds and then jump up again. (Remember I was hampered by also watching the other dogs and couldn't give him all the attention he needed.) I'll definitely be walking him alone and practicing making him sit WITH treat.

If he didn't have the trachea problem I would definitely use a prong collar on him.

Thanks Nora - will post updates!

Mary Beth, mom to the Lollipop Kids

Georgia Foster Mom, www.newrattitude.org
Pics of my current fosters:
http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/caradoc
http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/willow
http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/fiona
tauney4


Pack Leader
Pack Leader
08/18/2007 1:03 PM  
hhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmm..........i dont know what to say other than i agree with everybody else walk him alone.or maybe he is just trying to protect what is around him i dont know?
rattytatty


Newbie
Newbie
08/18/2007 1:47 PM  
Posted By Mitzy's Mom on 08/18/2007 12:56 PM
I know picking him up won't accomplish anything, I only did that because I had 2 other dogs on leash and 1 loose dog to keep track of...I was attempting to remove him from the equation as much as possible....I had realized I could not correct him well enough in that situation.

Now I did make him sit a few times, didn't have treats with me though. He would sit for a few seconds and then jump up again. (Remember I was hampered by also watching the other dogs and couldn't give him all the attention he needed.) I'll definitely be walking him alone and practicing making him sit WITH treat.

If he didn't have the trachea problem I would definitely use a prong collar on him.

Thanks Nora - will post updates!



Hope you did not take my comment as being critical -- I wasn't being critical.  Actually, given the circumstances (trying to handle two other dogs), you did the correct thing by removing him from the situation.  Sometimes you can't worry about the RIGHT Thing to do... you just need to take action fast to decrease any danger.  You did the right thing, Mary Beth.

Russ' Pal


Rat-A-Tat-Tat
Rat-A-Tat-Tat
08/18/2007 1:57 PM  
One thing I've noticed with Russ, if I pull back on his leash while he's meeting another male, he immediately gets growly. If I don't put any tension on the leash, it usually goes smoothly. ?

-Sarah, pal to Russ & Peca
Lucy's mom


Rat Royalty
Rat Royalty
08/18/2007 2:25 PM  

MB can Skipper wear a gentle leader?  I know I can even control Dar when she gets silly, which she tends to do in Petsmart, She gets over stimulated and because she weighs so much and is so strong, she is totally uncontrolable even on a chokeer chain, I don't have a prong collar but we do have a gentle leader for her, and it really makes her mind, one thing is that she hates it, and realizes when we put it on her that she messed up and got the leader, another thing, she really does listen and mind much better with it due to the pressure on her nose and the back of her neck, she completely loses intrest in the other dogs, just wants it off again, now we only have to show it to her and she straightens up.  She isn't mean to other dogs but people with little dogs don't want a huge dobie lunging after their baby even in play.  Actually she used to be agressive a little bit but over time learned that she was not being a good girl and she was getting us upset.  Now she is great with all other dogs, but she still scares the owners.   We only have to break out the Gentle Leader when we go to pet smart or the  outdoor flea market.  She tends to want to sniff butts in close quarters when walking  and most people don't want their butts sniffed.  Skipper will learn, it will just take time and patience, and I think taking him out alone is a good thing too.  I would have picked him up too.  Now I worry that the big dog might be a stray and lost, I worry alot about loose dogs!  It makes me sad that nobody cares enough about their dog to keep it safe in a fenced yard or at least put a collar and tags on it.  Some people are so uncaring when it comes to their sweet pets.  The pets have to suffer for it too.  So sad.


My little dog, a heartbeat at my feet. Edith Wharton

There will always be a lost little dog somewhere that will prevent me from being happy. Jean Anouilb
Mitzy's Mom


PAWesome
PAWesome
08/18/2007 5:28 PM  

Nora - I didn't think you were being critical!  I just wanted to be sure you understood why I picked him up.  After all, I'm asking for advice and I want you to have all the information.  It's really hard to communicate a complex issue via a typed post sometimes - no voice inflection, etc.  But don't worry - I'm not that sensitive!

Barb - don't know anything about gentle leaders...are they the things that look sort of like halters and go on their face?  Skipper might be able to use those if there is no pressure on his throat. Don't know if the neck pressure would affect his trachea or not but I'll Google them and check them out.

Thanks for all the advice/input guys. 


Mary Beth, mom to the Lollipop Kids

Georgia Foster Mom, www.newrattitude.org
Pics of my current fosters:
http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/caradoc
http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/willow
http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/fiona
Mitzy's Mom


PAWesome
PAWesome
08/18/2007 5:30 PM  
Oh, and Barb, I know what you mean about worrying about the big guy. The woman that I met in the cemetary lives right beside it and she didn't know the dog....but I hope he was just loose and not abandoned. No way could I have taken him in my car to the shelter - I did consider it - but there would have been a real fight. Bill went back there later but didn't see him.

Mary Beth, mom to the Lollipop Kids

Georgia Foster Mom, www.newrattitude.org
Pics of my current fosters:
http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/caradoc
http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/willow
http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/fiona
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