My wife and I (proud owners of our rattie since she was a puppy 3 years ago) have decided we'd like to expand our family and have found a wonderful yellow lab (about 8 months old) at a local rescue organization.  The lab is extremely passive to Sheila (our rattie) and very friendly to any human.

Little back history that may be important - we were unable to socialize Sheila to other dogs when she was a puppy.  She had a lot of time with humans, but due to health concerns we could not have her around dogs.  My in-laws have a German Sheperd and Shitzu, and Sheila gets along with them just fine at their house (Sheila is by far the most passive of the three).  Sheila will greet any human with a smile and loves to find a good lap.  Other dogs... scare and frighten her.  Dog parks are good, but only if there are either many human laps around or very few other dogs.  If we could change things, we would have socialized Sheila with dogs much more in her puppy-hood.

On the first introduction with the resuced lab in a neutral site, both dogs were fine together and so we moved to a 5 day sleep over for the lab.  At this introduction (after the lab had a chance to use our backyard for her business), I brought out Sheila.  Sheila was not on a leash and Lily (the lab) was.  Once Sheila spotted the lab, she started whining - almost to the point of sounding like a wounded rabbit.  Not a wonderful sound to say the least.  The good news is Lily just stood there and tilted her head.  No aggression what-so-ever (which also made the rescue worker happy).

I spent the next few days trying to work with both dogs to see if I could encourage Sheila to allow Lily into our pack.  Unfortunatly, my wife had to work longer hours and could not be a part of this.  Even towards the end of the first two days, Sheila would still backslide into fearful aggression with Lily.  I could stop this by strength of voice and presence, but it was happening far more often then I'd like.  The basic scenario being Sheila would start to feel a bit pressured or followed if she moved around and Lily would follow OR if Lily would come up with intrest to play (standing in front of Sheila with her tail wagging).  The aggression would start with Sheila baring teeth and charging at Lily.  As soon as Lily would back off (again thank the heavens she's not aggresive) Sheila would stop her charge.  If Lily took this as the start of play and came back up, Sheila would repeat the aggression.  It would escalate if I allowed it or was too far away.  I do feel that I was making progress.  If I had treats in my hands, both dogs were totally focused on me and would sit and lay down right away (even directly next to each other).  Invariably once the "training" was over, Sheila would feel imposed upon and we'd be back to me having to stop the action.  Now by this point, Sheila would know I was unhappy and go straight to a down or even roll on her back.  I'm certain that Sheila knew I wasn't happy (note that at the same time, Lily would wander off since this was boring).

I had to leave the country on a business trip that came up at the last minute and was able to hand off the training with my wife.  It was by no means the ideal thing, but well real life has its way of imposing at sometimes the worst time.

From checking in with my wife, things have gone south in a major way.  The dogs cannot be out of their crates at the same time.  Sheila is getting more aggresive, and perhaps even more worriesome is that the lab is now having her hair stand up along her back.

I'll be returning home in two more days, but I'm very concerned that Sheila may not be willing to tolerate another dog in our house.  Both my wife and I would very much like to have two dogs, but we are very much wanting to make sure that Sheila is not hurt or stressed in a major way.  This leads to quite a delima!  The lab is probably a perfect dog for us in every possible way (friendly, quiet, and not aggresive).  Sheila is a treasured member of the family and we wont' give that up or lessen it.

So what I'd like to find out from the group here is two-fold:

1) What can I and my wife to to address the aggresive behavior that Sheila is showing (or am I looking at this the wrong way and need to address something with the lab)?

2) What can we look for in Sheila to see if the rescue lab will just not work for our family (as sad as that may be)?

Thanks in advance to everyone (and apologies if I should have posted to a different sub-forum)!

I've thought about it (my male ego screams that I don't need professional help!  ), but I'd like to pick up some of the knowledge and expertise I've seen here in other posts.  I'm also reaching out the the lab rescue group to see if they have thoughts.  However, since they are lab specific and this (to us) looks to be more of a Rattie issue... well, we want to do the right thing by both dogs.

I may not stay on later (it is almost 7p here in Germany!), but I'll check back in on the forums tomorrow.

Both dogs are totally crate trained (going to her kennel is perhaps the best thing Sheila does).

Both dogs are fed at night and separatly until we can control the agression.  Its not a rigorous (exactly at 6pm) schedule, but the feeding is in the evening.  When the dog leaves the bowl, it is picked up.  We do not just leave food out.

They sleep in their crates/kennels and if no one is home, both are in the crates/kennels.

I don't know if there are issues over toys, mainly since we haven't moved "that far along".  I know that for both my wife and I, if we have treats in our hands - both dogs are perfect darlings.  They are both very food aware.

Sheila knows sit, down, wait, off, shake, dance, roll-over... and come (kind of).  Lily knows sit and down, but we haven't tested past that.  Both are responsive to their own name and will go to the person using it.

Sheila is a bit willful on the leash, but if we are strong about it she will walk behind us.  Lily once she has her first 1-2 mins on the leash is a good follower.

Yup, but in just two days, I'll be back in Texas.

Lily is still in the 5 day sleep-over period with the adoption agency.  So she started with us Friday evening (I had to fly out Sunday midday).  Which means (if I do my math right) that today is the end of that period.  The agency was gracious enough to extend the sleepover period until I can return back, but I'm hoping I can dig up some ideas and thoughts to help my wife get through these next two days and/or help us decide if this is the right decision.

Ironically, Lily's previous owners had to give her and another lab up because they had to relocate to the UK!

Defintly the early stages, but our concern is that Sheila's behavior is getting worse and not better.  Now I don't know for a fact that the dogs aren't picking up on my wife's worried state - even though she is trying very hard to be in a "calm and assertive state".  Yes we are big dog whisperer fans!

Since we're in this "trial period" with the adoption agency, we're really trying to view this as a decision between doing the right thing by Sheila and bringing a precious second dog into our lives.  Obviously Sheila is our first priority, but then we do have to balance the human needs with that.  If my wife and I both "knew" that this aggression would pass, well it would be an easy answer.  The recent escalation is what is forcing us to really evaluate (and seek help).

I hope you can get some good advice!  If I had anything I thought would be helpful, I would pass it on, but I don't get dog behavior at all.  Just wanted to share with you- we had a not-very-well socialized black lab mix as an only dog until she was 8.  Then we brought in a 2yr old female German Shephard mix and about 6 months later our 2yr old male rattie.

The adjustment wasn't the smoothest (Sam could be a bit possesive and then got very upset and pee'd all over the house for a while- fortunately we had pergo floors!) and we still have some fighting betwen the two females, but it has gone pretty smoothly for the most part.  Just a lot of supervision and interacting with them during the adjustment periods.  (And plenty of treats to distract them!)

Anyway, just was hoping it would be a bit encouraging...  With some advice and help, sometimes the adjustment can be made.

I appreciate the encouragement.  I do know that part of my "worry" comes from being remote from home and wanting to reduce the stress on both wife and dogs.  One more day and I'll be back in town to enforce the heavy walking and attention I've been unable to provide.

I am still looking forward to any advice on breaking down the cycle of agression by our much smaller rattie.

Thanks!

First and foremost... THANK you for even entertaining the possibility that things just might not work out. In the real world... things just sometimes don't work out regardless of how hard we try, or how much we might want it. It truly sounds like to me that you've taken all the proper introductory steps... introduction of the dogs in a neutral area on a leash. I can tell from your thread that you are really wanting for this situation to work out. Of course I'm not there and there's no way I can know ALL the facts, but I'll address the things I can.

First...you're dealing with two females.. one large breed and one small breed... one a resident dog and one a newcomer. If there's any pecking order established, Shelia WILL be top dog. First, she's the resident dog, and secondly...she's older - bitches are almost always higher up than other dogs in the pecking order, as are older dogs, and no sane and properly socialized male dog will ever harm a female on purpose.  (I have 4 dogs...3 males and one female.  My little 8-lb dachshund is TOP DOG of the pack and all the males respect that.  I'm alpha, but she's top dog).  So... if you were introducing a male dog things might be easier. But that is not the case, so.........

It might be smart/beneficial to go back to square one and try REintroducing Shelia and Lily. I usually allow dogs to get to know each other via what I call the grazing method... your back yard would be a good place. Find some crazy smelly treats and disperse them on the ground in small pieces over a 5-10 ft area and let the two dogs eat from the ground nose to nose. If the treat is smelly enough and tasty enough the dogs won't even bother with each other for the first few minutes. Afterwards....

You take the dog and expose it to the stimulus (in this case, seeing Lily), in the lower intensity that will still get the response (seeing the other dog in the distance, hearing the other dog, whatever gets Shelia to start barking).

When Shelia begins responding (barking/whining), you distract her with treats and games (food, scratches, whatever she likes) until she stops reacting. You repeat and repeat, in sessions less than 15 minutes long, until Shelia no longer reacts at that intensity.

You then increase the intensity of the stimulus (getting Shelia closer to Lily, for example), and repeat.

The idea behind it, is that the dog has a negative association with the stimulus, and owners tend to reinforce it (Shelia sees Lily... Shelia starts whining... owner yells at Shelia to stop barking and holds her tight or verbally corrects her) In Shelia's little brain: Other dog === being yelled at or held tight).

That association is very strong and hard to change. By giving treats and games, you want Shelia to make the association: Other dog === treats and good reactions!!!!

I would do this with each dog on a long line (approximately 25 feet long).... which allows each dog more freedom than they would have on regular leashes, but yet allows you to have ultimate control should things go haywire for some reason. This will also give Shelia the opportunity to meet Lily without being so close to you or your wife, which might lessen her territorial/possessive instincts.

Walk the dogs together... a LOT ! You and your wife... one take one dog one take the other. Don't worry about trying to teach one or both of the dogs to heel or do any other thing other than just to walk/interact...tired dogs are less likely to act or react.

Keep them crated when unsupervised... at ALL times when unsupervised.

If after a few weeks of doing this (and yes... it will take a few weeks because with an unsocialized adult dog there is no quick fix)... and Shela has not improved in her acceptance of Lily, I believe I would:

1) Chalk it up to the situation just not being workable
2) Consider a smaller breed
3) Consider a male

Good luck to both you and your wife. I hope things work out. Please do keep us informed, ok?

Thank you for taking the time to put down your thoughts and obvious understanding of the situation.  I've picked up some good nuggets of information in there and I will absolutly look into applying as many as humanly (and humanely of course) possible.

If it does come down to having to part ways with Lily, I'd be more inclined to look into finding a male - I don't know that either I or the wife would desire another breed.  Of course there might also have be room made for another rattie instead....

But then I'm getting ahead of myself!  Lets see how some very concerted and concentrated efforts due to help Sheila understand that its ok for other dogs to be part of our pack.  Heck, I'd love to be able to take Sheila to a dog park and not have to worry about her ending up in the lap of every other dog owner during the day!

Thanks again, and I will absolutly keep the forum up to date.

Welcome!  First of all if your rattie is aggressive - why would you want to breed him?  Not trying to offend you but breeding is something to be taken very seriously and done for the betterment of the breed.  Has he had all the genetic testing done?  Is he registered?  Would you be breeding him to a female of your own?  Because if you own the female there are all the other things to consider - genetic testing on her, being financially prepared for anything including (for example an emergency c-section can cost around $1300), finding good homes for the pups, etc.

Your best bet for a happy "canine family" would be to neuter him and then get a young puppy.  They are very non-threatening to dominant dogs already in the household.  As always - JMO!

First and foremost i misspoken about my dog he's not aggressive he just spoiled to my attention thats all . he's a very friendly lovable dog. sorry for the confusion. and yes i do very much know that dog breeding is serious stuff to be dealing with i dont take antthing i do with my dog likely thank you .I care very much about the betterment of the rat terrier breed that is why i have been considering this action. and yes he is registered and i dont know if i would be breeding with a female that i own or with another breeder i trust . and yes he's been tested and his genetic make up is why i wanted to breed him. and yes i do know it is a big financial burden and yes i thought about finding good homes for the puppies and etc. and no i will not neuter my dog. but i will get a young puppy thanks for that advice i will take.thank you for ur opinion.just so you will know not everyone who wants to breed are in it for the money some of us are wanting to keep these dogs around for a long time to come .

First, I apologize if I offended you.  Obviously you have researched breeding and have a good idea of what it entails.  We have had so many people post on here that do NOT know what they're doing and want puppies just because they're cute or they just don't spay their dog and she ends up pregnant by the neighbors dog, etc.....and often the puppies are the ones that suffer and end up in shelters or worse.  So I tend to strongly discourage those people from breeding and encourage spay/neuter.

And yes, I DO know that most breeders are not in it for the money - not many people get rich from breeding rat terriers!  Good breeders (whether they have only 1 dog or several) do it for the love of the breed. 

Thanks for the clarification and I'm glad to know you are knowledgeable about breeding.  We need more "good" breeders to continue this wonderful breed!

I accept your apology and do understand that some people do not research breeding and what it all takes to do right by the breed i guess i dont understand them kind of people. if im going to do something i want to know all i can about whatever it is i,m doing. i,m sorry for those who dont . i just didnt understand where u were coming from now i do and understand . keep doing and saying what u think to the people who dont . i agree strongly about spay/neutering to those are not for the betterment to the rat terrier breed thank you again for ur comment and knowledge on the rat terrier breed.