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Subject: Seperation Anxiety? Maybe?

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kimrose

Feisty

08/06/2007 7:46 PM
Well, Mic didn't do so good today again. This is day 3 that we've had to leave him home alone for 8 hrs. He didn't get into anything though.... but we came home to a mess. He had diarrhea all over the carpet. This is the same carpet we just spent all day yesterday washing, so you could imagine how happy we were... His voice is almost completely gone. When I came home and cleaned it up he wouldn't leave my side, pretty much was trying to sit on me he was hovering so close! We've been home for about an hour and a half now and he has finally eaten a bit and drank a bowl of water and is now completely passed out. I don't know what to do. Is it to hot? Maybe... I going to add another fan, but will that be enough? Or is it just his nerves? Or is it just to early and I have to be patient, that he will soon get used to it. I was thinking of getting a crate and I can put him in our room and leave the bedroom a/c on for him, but I have tried a crate before and I'm afraid he'll hurt himself trying to get out! He chewed holes in the last crate we had him in so we gave up on that... Plus I'm worried he may be to old to be crate trained. (3 yrs) I've left him in our bedroom before (no crate) and I was so scared I had to let him out, it sounded like he was going to bang the door down. I don't know, I guess I'm just looking for suggestions, or maybe some reassurance that he will get used to this... Before work I make sure he eats a little, drinks, and I take him on a pretty decent walk before I go. He seems ok when I leave. Just sits on the stairs, all sleepy eyed, doesn't bark much anymore.. I just hope he doesn't get all puky again tonight. He was fine all weekend!

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DaisysMom

Moderator
<b>Moderator</b>

08/06/2007 7:56 PM
Kim - it does sound like he's just having some difficulties adjusting to the change in schedule and Monday after your being home all weekend probably sort of confused him all over again. I would suggest crate training (I don't think he's too old) but I wouldn't advise putting him in the crate and leaving for 8 hours. You'll have to start slowly as if he was a puppy and gradually build up to his thinking of the crate as "His Place". Is there anywhere you can leave him that he doesn't have access to the carpeted area? Or maybe you could switch him to a once a day feeding in the late afternoon and not feed in the morning and then he won't have anything in him that might end up on your carpet? Maybe take him on his morning walk and give him a special treat before you leave. Does he like the Kong? Sorry I'm not more help. I feel for you and for Mic. Maybe he'll do better by the end of the week. How are you feeling, btw? Not still feeling "S-I-C-K" are you?

Tracey - Darlin' Daisy's Mom

Mari

Terrier Terror

08/06/2007 8:00 PM
I really can't give you an answer, but I have the option to come home everyday which I do at lunch time and let Sassie out real quick give her some loves and a treat and out the door...1/2 hour lunch...but I do live 5 minutes away...I also always leave her kibbles out and fresh water... I hand her a treat every morning and tell her to be a good girl. That I'll be back soon...She has only been crated once when she was 12 weeks for 2 hours it killed me more than her...Never has she been crated again..Never have I had a dog that had to be crated...i think the most shes ever been alone long was for 6 hours I went to a wedding she did fine. I have more of the anxiety then she does? So does hubby... Sorry Kim this isn't helping ....Just reassure that you will be back really soon.

May your shadow include your four legged friend. http://flickr.com/photos/marsass/

kimrose

Feisty

08/06/2007 8:19 PM
I think I'll take that advice and only feed him when I get home... I mean, he doesn't eat a lot in the morning, but obviously its enough... He has a kong like toy that he hasn't touched. I think I may look into crate training, I'm sure there's something in the training section on it! I wouldn't leave him in there all day at first though! Don't worry about that. So I guess we will just have to leave him alone and hope he's ok until we can... If we can. I just think it would be better for him because then I could leave him in the a/c. But like everything else, this routine is going to be all crazy until my parents leave! He's going to have to go through this all over again! Our whole place is carpeted except the kitchen, but he can't stay in there because its to open... no way to block it off unless I bought some big huge door and laid it sideways I don't think that would work! And Mari! I hope one day I'll be able to work like you and be able to come home for lunch, hopefully soon! I'm planning on quitting someday soon to find a new job!! And I'm feeling ok... my throat is a bit scratchy, but I'm choosing to believe it is because I am stressed from Mic, and scrubbing the carpet was a real workout! I just want to hide in my house and cuddle with poor Mickey and never ever leave!!! Yeah right....

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kimrose

Feisty

08/06/2007 8:59 PM
Ok, read the crate training thread... I was going to cry reading it just thinking of Mic in a crate! But then I got really worried when I read this... "Separation Anxiety. Attempting to use the crate as a remedy for separation anxiety won't solve the problem. A crate may prevent your dog from being destructive, but he may injure himself in an attempt to escape from the crate. Separation anxiety problems can only be resolved with counter-conditioning and desensitization procedures. You may want to consult a professional animal-behavior specialist for help." So now I don't know what to do!! Ok, I'm off to search the forum to read up on seperation anxiety, but what do you guys think? Does it sound like he has sep. anxiety? Should I try the crate? I need opinions, I'm to the point where I read to much and start to think Mic has every problem in the book! I think I have Jolene's disease... doggie hypochondriac!!

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osuzanneha

Rattie

08/07/2007 6:32 AM
do you maybe have the option of doggy day care?

Mitzy's Mom

PAWesome

08/07/2007 7:23 AM
I don't know if Mic really has separation anxiety or is just upset from the change in schedule. My whippet does have separation anxiety AND claustrophobia (common in whippets) and when my daughter tried to shut her in the bathroom once she literally clawed her way through the door! This was after we figured out that she couldn't stand being crated. The only way to keep her calm when she's alone is to have another dog with her!

Mary Beth, mom to the Lollipop Kids Georgia Foster Mom, www.newrattitude.org Pics of my current fosters: http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/caradoc http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/willow http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/fiona

ClareClaymore

Newbie

08/07/2007 9:10 AM
I experience Seperation Anxiety with my Great Dane pony he ate through a bout 2 inches of wall and tore a coach up he did not bark or howl I was downstairs at Dinner with my neighbor never heard him came home to a big mess. shorttly after we got a giant dog crate and he was fine he love it and killed pillows we put a comforter from th ebed in it he never tore it up and was a lot better.

kimrose

Feisty

08/07/2007 11:24 AM
See, this is why I don't think its Sep. Anxiety... Before Kevin got this job, we would leave him for 3-4 hrs at a time. Not every day, but at least a few times a week. Every time he was fine. As we started increasing the amount of time (Kevin was getting more interviews and gone longer) we started noticing him losing his voice. Now, with him alone 7-8 hrs, he's just a mess! Shaking, puking, diarrhea, completely passing out and sleeping all night! This morning he was fine when we left... didn't even hear him barking when I got into the car. He didn't eat any breakfast, which killed me because the hungry look on his face was sooo cute!! So I just hope we make it through the day with no suprises... Oh, btw... He was great last night! Slept all night and no puking!! So maybe he is getting better?? Do you guys think I should buy a crate? Or do you think I'm over-reacting and this is normal until he gets adjusted? No doggie day-care, he is scared of other dogs... Oh yeah, I'm probably going to bug you all day to day on him!! Because I keep reading all these articles and they all say contradicting stuff so I'm just going to stick with your advice

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NellBell25

Ratastic

08/07/2007 11:48 AM
I think you're right in just giving him more time to adjust... He sounds just like my parent's dog Gizmo who had seperation anxiety, but his started when he was around 7 after we all moved out of the house, and my parent's gave the cats to my Grandma so he was ALL alone for the very first time. Gizmo NEVER did well in a crate, I think it was because he was a puppymill puppy and he didn't mind pooing where he slept (before we knew better then to buy from places that get their dogs from there). BUT I've heard crates used very successfully, but if I were you I'd give it longer before going that route since he's not used to it. 8 hours IS a long time to be in a crate! Anyway, eventually because his sep. anxiety wouldn't go away, they went to the vet and Gizmo was put on Clomicalm, kinda like doggie Prozac. That, combined with behavioral training really helped him. This was the last resort after months and months of what you're describing. One thing they were told that might help you, was not to make a big deal out of leaving and returning, to calmly greet Gizmo even though he was freaking out, jumping up, so excited they were home, but just to say Hi, give a pat on the head and ignore him until he settled down.

rattytatty

Newbie

08/07/2007 12:06 PM
Kim... I'm just seeing this. I've been really out of pocket and haven't been here in several days. I'm sorry you are having to experience this... mostly I'm sorry that Mic is having to experience this new transition time too. I would definitely get a crate -- not a wire crate, but the hard plastic "pet kennel" type that he cannot chew, and there is less likelihood of him hurting himself. Diarrhea is not an uncommon side effect of separation anxiety.. if in fact that's what he's experiencing. (it's hard to tell sometimes..) At least if he does have diarrhea, it will be ine one place and not all over your carpet. Be sure to leave him a kong filled with peanut butter or a treat to keep him occupied. For some dogs, being in a dog crate makes them feel less anxious when they're home alone. Other dogs, however, become more anxious when confined, and they spend their crated time trying to escape from their crates. For these dogs, crating is obviously not a solution. You know your dog... after attempting the crate training and you see things not getting any better... only you can decide whether or not to continue. Avoid making your departures and arrivals major events. Doing so elevates the significance of your comings and goings and adds to your dog's stress level when he's alone. When you leave, just go out of your home quietly. When you come home, ignore Mic for the first few minutes. You want your arrival to be a low-key event. Second, observe what triggers Mic's anxiety. Your picking up your purse? The jingling of your keys? Do these actions repeatedly without leaving to desensitize Mic to them. Then, repeat these actions followed by leaving your home and returning right away until he accepts them without distress. Third, get Mic accustomed to short and gradually longer separations from his humans. Leave for just a few minutes at first without making a fuss over him before you leave or after you return. Gradually make these separations longer. In addition to the above steps, remember regular exercise. He'll have less energy to burn off when he's alone, bored, and stressed. Another simple aid to reducing anxiety is to leave the TV or radio on when you aren't home. Sometimes the company of human voices is enough to reduce a dogs' anxiety level. The "white noise" also prevents dogs from hearing and reacting to every little sound they hear. Kim, if Mic dog continues to have symptoms of separation anxiety, ask your veterinarian about anxiety-reducing medication and antidepressants suitable for dogs. These drugs have possible side effects, such as vomiting and diarrhea, and they may take several weeks to work.... and these drugs don't address the cause of the problem. But...for dogs with a severe anxiety disorder, it may be what they need. I would do this as a last resort, however. The symptoms of separation anxiety can also vary among dogs. Some dogs get extremely aggressive while others show signs of depression. Aggressive behaviors include scratching and digging in an attempt to follow their human, chewing on household items and whining and barking for long periods. This aggressive behavior normally peaks within half hour of departure. I know you care about Mic, and you want to find a solution to the problem. Continue to go about desensitizing Mic to your absence. Although it is time consuming, desensitizing is an effective technique that is very helpful for relieving separation anxiety in dogs. I wish you luck, and please keep us informed. Email me if you need to, ok? ~~Hugs~~

kimrose

Feisty

08/07/2007 1:20 PM
Thanks for your help guys... And Nora, I'm already doing a lot of what you said (tv, low-key arrivals/departures, extra walks), but a couple things really opened my eyes... This desensitizing, now that I think of it, Mic starts shaking and barks whenever I pick up my purse. So I'm going to try picking it up at different times, and just walk around the house with it, see how that works! As far as the crate, like NellBell said, is 8 hrs. to long? And I have a kong like toy for him with peanut butter, but so far he hasn't paid attention to it while alone... I'd rather not get a crate, but if its what has to be done, then I will do it. But I'd rather just have him get over this with some training! And the other question I had, was how can I gradually increase the time I'm gone, when he's already alone all day? Would this work if I just do it on the weekends or when I am home at night? Or will this just confuse him more?

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rattytatty

Newbie

08/07/2007 3:16 PM
As far as the crate, like NellBell said, is 8 hrs. to long? And I have a kong like toy for him with peanut butter, but so far he hasn't paid attention to it while alone... I'd rather not get a crate, but if its what has to be done, then I will do it. But I'd rather just have him get over this with some training! Why would you rather not get a crate, Kim? A crate will be your best training tool. If after a week of leaving him in it... he hasn't adapted... then I would try something else. But no way would I try something else first. The crate is a big PART of the training process. Mic is your dog and this has to be your decision. There's not a one of us on this forum who has crate trained their dogs, that didn't go through the yelping, crying.... for days before our dogs got used to the crate. For some dogs it takes longer than other dogs. But once the dog is used to the crate, it makes life SO much easier for both of you! In severe cases... (and I have no way of knowing how severe Mic's case is...) sometimes crates aren't the answer. But I would sure give it a try first.... that's my opinion and I would guess that 90% of the dog trainers in this world would agree with me. Using a crate to properly train your dog will be time well spent. Crate training takes some time and effort, but it is a proven way to help train dogs who act inappropriately without knowing any better. Bottomline... he's your dog and you need to handle it the way you feel is best. If all else fails, I would consult a professional trainer to help you and Mic get through it. There are lots of things a trainer can actually show you how to do that will help. Desensitizing and counter-conditioning procedures are sometimes the only way to go... especially in very severe cases.

kimrose

Feisty

08/07/2007 3:50 PM
What worries me about a crate is that Mic has been in a crate before. It was a soft sided crate though, and he completely chewed his way out. Before he did that however, he would shove and push, and kick, and thrash like crazy to get out, he even tipped it over and had it upside down. He would go into the crate fine, but after about a minute (not even left alone, I was there) he started this behavior. I don't know why he did this, he had a toy, blankie, it was the perfect size... so I'm afraid of him hurting himself. This was before he was 1 yr. and we haven't tried it since. Now I will admit, we were idiots back then and didn't know what we were doing with training, so I am willing to try again... just a lot slower and with a hard crate... a heavy one. The other thing that worries me is the amount of time he would be in there... 8 hrs. just seems very long... Me and Kevin have both had dogs before, but never used a crate or had such a nervous little doggie, so this is all new to us.

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rattytatty

Newbie

08/08/2007 8:12 AM
Your mistake was in using a soft-sided crate. Usually those aren't used until the dog is crate trained and older ... Bailey was (is) crate trained and totally shredded two expensive soft-sided crates. He doesn't do that anymore... but at the time I should not have left him alone in a soft crate. He was too young. (hindsight is 20/20 isn't it?) The pet kennel type of crate is perfect and he cannot hurt himself in it. Yes... if he works hard enough at it... he can tip it over, but not easily. And if he does tip it over it's not going to hurt anything and he will quickly learn that doing so offers NO rewards whatsoever. Condition him to it slowly... while you are at home. Leave it in the room you frequent the most often and leave treats/toys it it... leave the door open so he can go in and out at his will. Do this for awhile before leaving him alone in it, so he will learn that the crate is a positive experience and not a negative one. I would at least give it a shot... the medium-sized pet kennels are not that expensive... and no 8 hours is not too long to keep an adult dog in a crate. I do it every day during the week while I'm working, and I promise you that Bailey has not hurt himself or been abused by this in any way!

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