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Rat-Terrier.com
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Yoda

 Rattie

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| 06/27/2007 11:13 AM |
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Hi, Im Jessie and my sweet little rat girl is Yoda, who is one year old. As a pup, she showed possesive behavior over toys and food. I dealt with that appropriately at the time, taking her food periodically while eating, toys while playing, etc.
Well, a few days ago I got a border collie puppy for my birthday. (my only other dog I owned before Yoda was a border collie I had for 8 yrs, who had to be put down from multiple tumors) Yoda seemed jealous, so I have been trying to give her first food, first petting, etc. OKay, so I come into the bedroom, and Yoda is on my pillow (shes not allowed on the bed) I told her NO, and went to pick her up and put her on the floor, and she growled and BIT me! I can't beleive she did this, she has not acted at all like an aggressive dog since puppy hood.
I rolled her on her back immediately and growled.....held her there for a minute, gently, but firmly. I hope this was enough.....
Well, its been two days since, and Im confused if it was just a random jealous act or if I should be concerned. I read you should take away thier toys to demote them, but then it seems unfair to let the pup have toys and not Yoda. just wondering what y'all think. shes normally so well behaved, it scared me! |
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Mitzy's Mom

 PAWesome

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| 06/27/2007 11:34 AM |
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Did she growl and bite as you picked her up? Just asking because if so I would rule out any pain issues first....my newest dog will yelp if I grab him suddenly and I think it's because he's had numerous health problems unlike my other dogs. It's a long shot but Yoda may have a sore place somewhere. My Mitzy was extremely jealous when we got Skipper (she was ok with Mayfly because Mayfly was a tiny puppy). She still sometimes will lunge growling at him but NEVER growls or bites at us. Sounds like you did the right thing - I'm sure you'll get some good advice as some of the others have gone through this! |
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Mary Beth, mom to the Lollipop Kids
Georgia Foster Mom, www.newrattitude.org Pics of my current fosters: http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/caradoc http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/willow http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/fiona
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Ladysmom

 Ratterific

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| 06/27/2007 12:06 PM |
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Hmmm . . . the timing of the aggression seems suggestive, coming as it does right after getting the new puppy. Have you been cuddling a lot with the new baby, or interacting with the puppy in a way that Yoda might view as submissive? If so, that might spur Yoda to make a move to take over, if she sees you as having somehow lost your status.
Just a thought. What does Nora have to say?
LM |
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More cowbell! |
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Mitzy's Mom

 PAWesome

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| 06/27/2007 12:16 PM |
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I think we're waiting on Nora to see this. I do agree though, that maybe Yoda is seeing you as less dominant. It may be as simple re-establishing your alpha position...which it sounds like you are doing.
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Mary Beth, mom to the Lollipop Kids
Georgia Foster Mom, www.newrattitude.org Pics of my current fosters: http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/caradoc http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/willow http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/fiona
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Yoda

 Rattie

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| 06/27/2007 3:57 PM |
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well, I checked yoda over and she doesnt seem to be sensitive anywhere. I pick her up all the time and love on her. Im thinking it was jealousy, but she seems to be over it, and is playing with the new pup and letting her have all her toys.
Im not sure if shes challenging me (I sort of think she is) or if shes distracted, but today while going on our walk around the property she didn't come when called several times. She ALWAYS has excellent recall.... so good that I rarely keep her on leash anymore (we live in the country). THEN, she ran out the door in front of me, which she is trained to sit and wait for me to say 'o.k.' She usually does this automatically.
I also wanted to ask if the new dog being a female might have something to do with it. She is used to other dogs but Im pretty sure all my friends' dogs are male. thanks for the input so far, its all very helpful! |
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DaisysMom

 Moderator

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| 06/27/2007 6:41 PM |
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I think that the new puppy is probably causing her some concern (much as kids feel towards a new baby sometimes) and she is probably just regressing a little. You sound pretty confident and knowledgeable so I think if you reinforce much of the work you've already done and remind her who's Alpha, I'm sure she'll come around quickly Good luck and let us know how the transition is going!! |
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Tracey - Darlin' Daisy's Mom
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Mitzy's Mom

 PAWesome

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| 06/28/2007 7:19 AM |
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You know, I just thought of something else. Between 1 year and 1 1/2-2 years they sort of go through a "rebelious teenage time" so that may be part of it combined with the new pup. At least both of mine went through that stage. Also, is Yoda spayed? If not her hormones could be "acting up" especially with the new female in the house. Either way at least it's not medical and it sounds like you'll work through it just fine. |
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Mary Beth, mom to the Lollipop Kids
Georgia Foster Mom, www.newrattitude.org Pics of my current fosters: http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/caradoc http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/willow http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/fiona
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rattytatty

Newbie

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| 06/28/2007 10:29 AM |
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Hi Jessie....
Although sexual maturity can happen as early as six months, behavioral maturity sometimes doesn't usually occur until your dog is two years of age. Adolescence is a stage in your puppy's development that is somewhat similar to the teenage years of children. It is a time of transition and physical, mental, and emotional change. The puppy's behaviors are changing from the immature behaviors of youth to the mature behaviors of the adult. He is no longer a puppy anymore, but he isn't an adult yet either. By being knowledgeable and aware of the typical behaviors that are displayed by adolescent dogs, why they might be occurring, and how in turn to deal with them, you can make this transitional time easier for both of you.
The most serious and concerning behavior that can surface during adolescence is aggressive behaviors. Aggressive and threatening behavior patterns seem to become fully developed around this time. An adolescent dog is more confident in himself and more willing to start exploring his world on his own. He feels more comfortable being away from family members and the security they provide. Because the world has become such an exciting place to explore, Yoda may be very distracted and seem not to listen as well as he did when he was younger. This shouldn't be characterized as rebellious behavior, but a reorganization of his priorities. You may not be the most important thing in his life for a while. Also... Yoda's behavior patterns simply are not going to be consistent yet. He may greet a stranger with typical puppy exuberance one day and shy away from him the next....he may respond immediately to a command one day and act as though he can't hear you the next day. It's just how it is. It is a time of change for Yoda.
I can't emphasize enough to you that consistency and persistency WILLl pay off. Even if you have to revert to more basic training methods from time to time, make sure that you follow through and see that Yoda responds to your directions. Do not lower your standards for his behavior during this transition period. Even though there are understandable reasons why Yoda may be less reliable during this time, that doesn't mean ignoring your requests is acceptable. You must focus on not rewarding or giving into undesirable behavior patterns such as attention getting and pestering. You've already learned that dogs do what works for them. Make sure that what works for your dog is listening to and responding to the cues you give him. Don't make excuses for why your pup didn't want to respond to you, just calmly see that he does, using the methods that you know work
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Adolescence may fool you, because you might be thinking that you've just about got this puppyhood thing under control. Keep up with and stay on top of the commands you have taught him so far. Continue to apply and enforce what you have learned. Training should be a part of Yoda's daily routine. Use whatever he perceives as highlights of his day, as real life rewards for compliance/obedience.
Nothing in life comes free. Before you do anything for Yoda, request him do something for you first. For example, always have him "sit" and "wait" before you feed him, take him for a walk, allow him to get out of the car, etc. Help him learn that the quickest way to get what he wants is to simply comply with your requests. By shifting the responsibility to Yoda to choose to want to comply in order to earn a reward, you take all the confrontation out of your training.
For the time-being, it might be wise not to let Yoda (or the other dog) on your bed at all unless you desire to do so after you are on the bed FIRST. Also... if you see him in a situation where you feel the need to pick him up and remove him... (as in the example you cited)... don't do so. Get a treat and LURE him away from whatever it is he's doing and say "come" and then praise him BIG time for doing ask you asked. This way you are obtaining the results you are seeking in a positive way, and you are not challenging the dog.
As far as "rolling" a dog? I don't care for that... but that's my personal preference. I do know of trainers that use that method... I've simply never had to.
I'm sorry this is so long... I simply haven't learned how to reply to some of these issues in the "Reader's Digest" format... |
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rattytatty

Newbie

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| 06/28/2007 10:30 AM |
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Gosh I just re-read what I wrote... I've really got to start condensing my responses! I'm sorry!
By the way... if it makes you feel any better? My Bailey... who loves everything, every dog and everybody... will be 2 years old in October. He's experiencing some of the same behavior inconsistencies that I talk about in my response. He's exhibiting some possessive behaviors. Last night he was sitting in my lap, and my little black dachshund (Lil'Bit) jumped up on the couch. Before I could blink an eye, Bailey growled and snapped at Lil'Bit. I grabbed Bailey and put him in the floor. But I also put Lil'Bit in the floor. My first instinct was to beat the crap out of him.... but I didn't. What I did was to get up... went in the kitchen and got four treats... came back to the couch and sat down and called all four of the dogs up on the couch with me, but I put Bailey back in my lap. Of course, the other three dogs were trying to get to me, and as I held Bailey I gave each of the other three dogs a treat and made Bailey sit in my lap and wait... and he was the last one to receive a treat.
Then I put Lil'Bit on my lap with Bailey.. and stroked them both...
To me this was more effective than picking Bailey up and putting him in his crate as punishment... or squirting him with a water bottle... or screaming "NO" at him. |
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Paul

 Feisty

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| 06/28/2007 10:36 AM |
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Nora, what you said was perfect! Dont change. I'd much rather read a reply to a specific question that has a LOT of information and get something out of it than some one-liner that leaves me wondering still what I'm supposed to do. |
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"Train now, or forever hold your leash"
http://www.flickr.com/photos/doberdad/ |
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DaisysMom

 Moderator

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| 06/28/2007 10:39 AM |
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Nora: I don't think your responses are too long at all. The issues you address cannot be dealt with effectively with just one or two sentences. If it takes half a page, so be it. Better that someone clearly understand what you're trying to communicate than be confused and misinterpret your advice, especially in this type of situation with an aggressive misbehavior. I think you write as succinctly as possible given the wealth of information you're providing. There are whole books written on these subjects, so I don't think a few paragraphs is "too" much. Keep up the wonderful responses - you're an invaluable member of this site and provide all of us with a better understanding of our dogs and how we can be better, more competent owners  |
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Tracey - Darlin' Daisy's Mom
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rattytatty

Newbie

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| 06/28/2007 10:44 AM |
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| Thanks.. makes me feel a little better. I get on my "soapbox" and just get wound up. These subjects are very important to me, and I never want to give information that is not complete. As mentioned above... I'm dealing with some behavior changes with Bailey as well... so I can only assume some of the other members might be experiencing these things too! |
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DaisysMom

 Moderator

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| 06/28/2007 10:48 AM |
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Ha! Knowing Bailey occasionally acts out makes me feel MUCH better, Nora!!! Daisy just turned 17 mos. old and has these slip-ups too...I'm surrounded by teenagers  |
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Tracey - Darlin' Daisy's Mom
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rattytatty

Newbie

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| 06/28/2007 10:51 AM |
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| Trust me, Tracey! He definitely has his moments!! And... so do I !! |
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Mitzy's Mom

 PAWesome

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| 06/28/2007 11:40 AM |
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| Ok, so when Bill or I is holding Mitzy or Skipper in our laps and then the other one jumps and the dog already in our lap starts to growl - we should put both dogs on the floor? I do when Mitzy is the growler but when Skipper is the growler I only put him on the floor - yes that would be WRONG but I'm biased towards Mitzy. Please explain why both should go on the floor? (Not arguing here, I honestly want to know so I'll do what's right!) |
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Mary Beth, mom to the Lollipop Kids
Georgia Foster Mom, www.newrattitude.org Pics of my current fosters: http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/caradoc http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/willow http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/fiona
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rattytatty

Newbie

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| 06/28/2007 11:47 AM |
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Why would you treat one dog one way and another dog another way in this situation? Yes... I agree that's wrong.
I put them both on the floor to reinforce ME as the alpha. Not Bailey, not Lil'Bit, not Buster and not Hoss... but ME. It's the pack behavior they understand and relate to... reinforcement they understand...
If I were to have just put Bailey in the floor... what would that have said to Lil'Bit? I don't want any one dog to "win" over another one... I want to be the one to "win".
Again let me say that in the dog's minds, they are doing nothing wrong. It's natural behavior for them, so it's up to us to take the lead and reinforce boundaries. |
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Mitzy's Mom

 PAWesome

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| 06/28/2007 12:02 PM |
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| Ok, thought it was reinforcing the human as alpha....thanks for explaining Nora. |
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Mary Beth, mom to the Lollipop Kids
Georgia Foster Mom, www.newrattitude.org Pics of my current fosters: http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/caradoc http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/willow http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/fiona
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Yoda

 Rattie

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| 06/28/2007 3:42 PM |
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very, very helpful advice. Thanks so much! It definately helps to know that it is normal behavior. it makes so much sense that she would be like jealous older sister, hurt, confused at the new addition- and also using the opportunity to see what she can get away with. Nora you are so right on on several points!!!
Im also not a 'rolling over' person, but in that instance, it was just an instant reaction- shes never bit anyone, I never thought I would be the first! I also felt guilty after doing it because I usually do try to make the learning positive,and fun when possible- but this time I guess something inside me made the instant decision I needed to let her know I don't like that!
As far as the long response, I say Bless You! I think it rocks that you care enough about these things to take the time to give advice. I really appreciate every peice of advice, long or short, if it helps me figure out how to be a better doggie parent. thanks! |
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