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Mitzy's Mom

PAWesome

05/25/2007 4:27 PM
I just read Nora's advice for Yogi in the "timid pup" thread and I understand it. I've got a question though. My dogs are never around children (none in the family, no neighbors with little ones, etc.), the only time they see them is when we are out walking and happen to meet some. Loco is fine with anyone including children. But Mitzy and Mayfly get terrified of them, especially the very small ones (3-8 yr. olds) because they always come running up to them shreiking with arms extended. Of course I head the children off but one time I was talking to a young mom who had 2 VERY hyper boys. I told her the boys could pet Loco but not the little ones as they were scared. Well, the smaller boy, maybe 4 yr. old., suddenly ran around me straight toward M&M who ran to the end of their leashes - poor Mitzy actually screamed! He stopped right before grabbing them BUT if he had grabbed them I'm not sure they wouldn't have bitten him! And I can't blame the dog for that - they were scared for their lives! So my question is - wouldn't that be a normal reaction for a dog? Conversely, one time we were walking and met a family with 2 kids who were around 10. The parents were very interested in loco and Bill took over to be petted and he was talking to them. The kids were interested in M&M but I told them they were scared. So these kids stayed very quiet and still and pretty soon both Mitzy and Mayfly went up to the boy and sniffed him...he slowly reached down to them...and soon he was petting them. This was obviously a dog family!

Mary Beth, mom to the Lollipop Kids Georgia Foster Mom, www.newrattitude.org Pics of my current fosters: http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/caradoc http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/willow http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/fiona

NellBell25

Ratastic

05/25/2007 6:39 PM
I, obviously, don't know much about training dogs and behavior since Yogi is my first one on my own, but I do think that's pretty normal behavior... I always look on the Oregon Humane Society website and half the dogs say they recommend a home without young children, particularly with smaller dogs. But that the same time, it seems like dogs are expected to be able to handle any situation temperment wise, to be considered a "good dog" but a lot of people I've talked to have dogs that aren't that great with little kids, so I would assume it's pretty normal.

rattytatty

Newbie

05/25/2007 6:57 PM
Children often cause defensive behavior in dogs because they just do not understand what they are doing to the dog. Especially prior to school age, children lack the mental capacity for empathy to understand that their behavior can hurt the dog. Children under school age should never be alone with any dog because the child is not ready to treat the dog properly and a panicked dog may hurt the child. Often the results of a child’s treatment don’t show until the puppy matures enough for defense drives to begin emerging. This may not happen until adolescence or after. The young puppy seems not to mind what the child does, and when the adolescent or young adult dog rises up to defend against children, parents think the behavior came out of nowhere. Usually, though, the seeds were planted earlier by parents not knowing how to properly control children’s treatment of the family dog. Sometimes these dogs’ attitudes toward children can be rehabilitated, and sometimes they cannot. It’s especially understandable when a small dog is never able to regain trust of children because kids can indeed easily harm a small dog and the dog knows it. I witnessed this behavior tonight when my niece stopped by to pick up Abby, and she had Eli (her 18-month old son) with her. Bailey loves Abby and will allow her to do most ANYthing to him. In fact, I've never seen a dog who is better with children than Bailey is. We were sitting on the front porch drinking coffee and just visiting...and Eli runs over to Bailey waving his arms... Bailey growled at him. I have to admit, I was shocked as I have NEVER seen this behavior in Bailey before. Unknowingly... Eli's body language probably scared Bailey, and the growl was Bailey's warning not to come any closer. Would Bailey have bitten him had we not been there? I honestly don't know... but I picked Eli up and told him "no"... and gave him to his mother. Until Eli is old enough to learn proper behavior around Bailey, he must be watched carefully. Now Abby? Abby has been around Bailey from day one...since Bailey was 6 months of age. He's comfortable with her and accepts her, and is not defensive around her at all. Remember that a defensive dog is afraid. The dog may be brave through the fear, but it’s better for the dog, and a more humane life, when unnecessary fear is avoided. If the word “defense” makes you think this is something you want in a dog, think again. Defensive behavior is not coming from a position of strength. If you want a dog to be protective, whether just calmly available for times of need or trained in protection work, what you want is a stable, confident dog; not a fearful one. Defensive behavior is not a good characteristic to see in a dog you are counting on for protection.

Mitzy's Mom

PAWesome

05/25/2007 7:17 PM
Interesting, I have noticed in puppies and kittens and foals who are very young they seem to be more trusting when very young. That DOES explain why sometimes a family will get a young puppy and think all is well...then the older pup defends itself one day and suddenly it's "vicious". I think one of the problems here is that too many parents out there do not teach young children how to be around strange (or any) dogs....and parents that allow toddlers to run up to dogs they don't know! My parents taught me to be quiet and calm around all animals AND I was not to approach or pet any animal (dog, cat, horse, goat) without the handler's permission.

Mary Beth, mom to the Lollipop Kids Georgia Foster Mom, www.newrattitude.org Pics of my current fosters: http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/caradoc http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/willow http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/fiona

rattytatty

Newbie

05/25/2007 7:25 PM
Mary Beth -- you are absolutely, tee-totally, 100% correct !! It's not until a puppy reaches adolescence that he/she becomes more wary...

Maureen

Firehouse Big Dog

05/25/2007 7:33 PM
Abby puts up with a lot as I have taken care of my grandson while his mom teaches for ever...he is almost 2. He and his folks moved in with us in Feb...and they now have an almost 2 mo old. Abby has had Keegan ...at times they are 2 culprits in crime...since I got her last Sep. She was born to a family with 2 kids and has been held and mauled since birth! So my experience has been very positive with her. Maureen

Maureen Mom to Abby, Barkley and Reggie..and cat Sarah Jane Scratch a dog and you'll find a permanent job. ~Franklin P. Jones

tiggarat

Bratty Ratty

05/25/2007 8:04 PM
I have a 4 yr old nephew who completely freaked my pups out...he hasn't been here since. He shrieks a lot and pets them too rough...the girls were only 2 1/2 months old a that point. He mom (my sil) didn't help...she just laughed and told him to pet them again. They are not dog people, and have no clue as how to treat a dog, even though they lived with us for a month last year. My SIL was constantly saying "he's going to bite me/you!!" the entire time. They think we spoil our dogs. Whatever. Spoiling kids is far worse. Another thing, I was walking Rosie and two small kids came running out of the bushes asking if they could pet her. She had her hackles up and had a wild look in her eyes...they just scared her soo much. I looked at her for a moment, and decided that they shouldn't touch her. I wasn't sure what she'd do. Rose is a big dog and can do some serious damage, if provoked bad enough. They were disappointed, but I was thinking of their safety. At least they asked first. Too bad that they had to come running at us like that. Needless to say, we haven't taken that route since. They were young, the older of the two maybe 5 yrs old. Rosie does great with my 12 yr old niece, though...absolutely loves her.

Lisabeth furbabies: Lucy and Molly (1 1/2 yr old decker ratties), and Rosie (3 yr old dobie) Buddy - gone but never forgotten. "I don't think he has any idea he's a dog, really. Of course, he thinks he has a rather odd figure for a man" - Dodie Smith

Susan

Terrier Terror

05/28/2007 12:00 AM
Too many times people don't teach their kids not to hurt the puppy or kitten! With my kids if that animal yells the kid gets a spanking and talking to for hurting it, and must give the animal a formal appology! Usually the dogs forgive them and the cats hold a grudge for a while, but that is alright with me. Thats why puppies yell when they play to make the other one stop! All of our dogs have been good with kids, even little ones, but if the dog wants out away from the kid it gets to go! We have had problems only once with jelousy, the dog was jelouse of the kid and we found the dog a nice home with some older people, grandkids came to visit and the dog was fine with that, just not kids all the time. Some dogs really don't care for kids, some dogs aren't sure that kids are people! If they have never been around them that can happen, quiet kid visits might help, but the dog may never believe that they are really people. The size thing really throws them and the fact that kids don't act like most adults.

ANYTHING WORTH DOING IS WORTH OVERDOING Mom of eight, only three left at home! Pack leader to ten ratties: Maggie, Mysty, Berry, Simon, Ceecee and five puppies, Star,Sari, Bluebelle, Double stuf,and Snortie. As well as Ginger the Border Collie and a herd of turkeys!

michelle

Firehouse Big Dog

05/28/2007 9:57 AM
Sydney gets very hyper around kids and will jump up at them, Sonic, is very shy around kids and will pull to get away from them. Right now, when we go walking and children ask to pet our dogs, we tell them, "not right now, they are in training".

michelle, mom to Sydney (JRT), Sonic (Rattie), Buddy(Jack-Rat) and Proud mom to Army son, Jordan http://www.dogster.com/dogs/893222 Sydney http://www.dogster.com/dogs/893220 Sonic http://www.dogster.com/dogs/901405 Buddy

Mitzy's Mom

PAWesome

05/28/2007 11:48 AM
Yeah, I don't mind if children ask me to pet them, because then I'll say "you can pet the big dog but not the little ones 'cause they're scared". It's the ones that don't ask and just come running up and grabbing at them that I don't like!

Mary Beth, mom to the Lollipop Kids Georgia Foster Mom, www.newrattitude.org Pics of my current fosters: http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/caradoc http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/willow http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/fiona

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