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Subject: My purpose is to guard all things that are "mine" !
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rattytatty


Training Moderator
Training Moderator
06/23/2008 12:42 PM  

I'm posting this in an effort to help someone (anyone) who may also end up in this situation....

Bailey and I train two nights a week, and I take his treats (chicken and/or cheese) in a cooler to keep them cool.   I also take his treats in a cooler when I go to trials, as everyone does... and of course, Bailey quickly learned a long time ago, that "his" treats are in the cooler.

Late yesterday afternoon, I went to a friend's house who has all the agility equipment to set up a standard course with.  I took Bailey's cooler ... and sat the cooler down underneath the trees.  Janice has a lab who is very well trained and an awesome agility competitor, and Bailey and Gusto get along beautifully.... UNTIL YESTERDAY.

Bailey decides to stand guard over the cooler ... and while Janice and I were setting up the equipment, Gusto walks over to where Bailey is standing, and Bailey proceeds to viciously (yes... viciously) attack Gusto.   As many times as they have been together, this has never happened.  Gusto could have had Bailey for lunch... but fortunately, he promptly backed away.

So as an exercise to teach Bailey a "lesson".  Janice put Gusto on lead... and I put Bailey on lead.  Janice walked Gusto over to where he was standing with the cooler, and Bailey proceeded to growl and show his teeth.  I promptly said "NO" ...picked Bailey up... and handed him to Janice... then I took ahold of Gusto's leash.  I opened the cooler and gave Gusto several treats out of the cooler, as Janice held Bailey watching. 

We performed this exercise several times... and finally Bailey got the messaget that if he was aggressive, he got nothing except carried away from the spot where he most wanted to be.   It took almost an hour to work through this... but in the end I could put Bailey in the down position... Janice could lead Gusto to the cooler and reach in it and give Gusto a treat without Bailey reacting at all.

Occasionally... despite all our training efforts and successes... a dog's natural instincts will surface.  Be prepared for this to happen, and be prepared to address it is if does. NO dog is perfect, regardless of the amount of training that has been done.

I just wanted to share this experience with you in case something similar happens to you during your journey towards owning a well behaved dog.


~Nora~
Mom to Hoss, Lil'Bit, Buster & Bailey, CGC, NA, NAJ, OA, OAJ
DaisysMom


Moderator
<b>Moderator</b>
06/23/2008 12:54 PM  
This makes me feel a lot better, actually. Daisy is this way towards "her mommy's lap" So discovered a young happy-go-lucky boxer at the vet's office the other day. I've first got to find someone with a laid back well trained dog willing to help though.

Tracey - Darlin' Daisy's Mom

gwacie


Rat-A-Tat-Tat
Rat-A-Tat-Tat
06/23/2008 12:57 PM  
Timely post Nora! This afternoon we had a bully stick fight between Zip and Eddie. They've been getting these things regularly and never had more than minor discussions. Each dog (all 4) choses a spot and chews their stick. Well today Eddie must have looked at Zip funny and off Zip went. It was not pretty and I think Eddie got a good bruise out of it (covered by fur) where Zip bit him in the haunches and held on (no broken skin though thankfully). Of course I picked up all the sticks and we have been working on this for an hour. Sigh. These dogs have been together for 4 years and share all the time, but today instinct kicked back in I guess.

gwacie (Bethany)
My Doggies: http://www.myadams.net/dogs/
Rescue: http://www.newrattitude.org
maggiew607


Terrier Terror
Terrier Terror
06/23/2008 12:59 PM  
Thanks Nora, we have had this issue is the nouse with Gus and CoCo. The problem never surfaces over their food, but instead over treats or our food. CoCo had to e taught that if she growled and Gus behaved, Gus would get treats and she would just get to smell them. Thanks for the tips, I never thought to move her further away from the food she wanted, and will use this during sibling rivalries.

**Maggie, Mom to CoCo and Angus**
rattytatty


Training Moderator
Training Moderator
06/23/2008 1:00 PM  
How did you handle that situation, Tracey?

~Nora~
Mom to Hoss, Lil'Bit, Buster & Bailey, CGC, NA, NAJ, OA, OAJ
DaisysMom


Moderator
<b>Moderator</b>
06/23/2008 1:00 PM  
For the rest of the time we had to wait to be called back to see the vet, I didn't allow her on my lap. She had to sit on the floor at my feet.

Tracey - Darlin' Daisy's Mom

Kasey's Mom


Terrier Terror
Terrier Terror
06/23/2008 1:01 PM  

Kasey has been doing the same thing with "his" things.  especially treats.  If i happened to have a bag of treats, that i would take to the lake, and say the bag fell off the counter top or the chair.... and Indy would go investigate, Then Kasey would jet to the area and snarl at Indy to get him to back off....   of course i would say, "leave it". and put it up in a safer place.   then that was it.....  but I do need to work with Kasey because he is trying to get the upper hand......   *sigh*


Mardi
Momma to Kasey and Indy

~~Dance like nobody's watching~~
rattytatty


Training Moderator
Training Moderator
06/23/2008 1:08 PM  
I just get the feeling sometimes that people think/believe that just because a dog is highly trained... that there are NEVER any mishaps. That simply isn't true. I will say, however, that when these situations arise with trained dogs.. they are more easily corrected because the human has already established him/herself as the leader. Sometimes ... especially with terriers... the dogs can be stubborn and it's more difficult .. but it is still accomplishable.

Janice couldn't believe it... as she's been around Bailey for two years and has never seen that side of him. Well... had Bailey not been trained, I could have well been bitten myself. But Bailey knew better than to challenge me.

Just saying.... a dog's basic nature will always surface from time to time -- regardless of how much training he's had.

Gwacie ... I've had the same situation with my four dogs and bully sticks. Now I confine them each to his/her own spot when they are chewing on bully sticks, and if one of them DARES to move... I put him back in his spot. Again... it's the basic nature surfacing.

~Nora~
Mom to Hoss, Lil'Bit, Buster & Bailey, CGC, NA, NAJ, OA, OAJ
rattytatty


Training Moderator
Training Moderator
06/23/2008 1:10 PM  
Posted By DaisysMom on 06/23/2008 1:00 PM
For the rest of the time we had to wait to be called back to see the vet, I didn't allow her on my lap. She had to sit on the floor at my feet.



...........which is exactly what you should have done.....

Miss Daisy thinks that you belong to her.... (now where could she have gotten such an idea as that?)


~Nora~
Mom to Hoss, Lil'Bit, Buster & Bailey, CGC, NA, NAJ, OA, OAJ
DaisysMom


Moderator
<b>Moderator</b>
06/23/2008 1:11 PM  
I have no idea....crazy dog!!!!


(shhhh....don't tell her I said that, k?)

Tracey - Darlin' Daisy's Mom

DaisysMom


Moderator
<b>Moderator</b>
06/23/2008 1:14 PM  
Oh, and see, Nora, I would've like to use it as an opportunity, but 1.) the boxer (maybe 10-12 mos. old) was very hyper, pulling against a prong collar, etc., not mean, aggressive or anything, just anxious and not the idea situation to practice with, right? And 2.) it's the vets office with a small waiting room and you can hear some barking, yelping from the back area, so all the dogs are usually a little "off their game".

She did go to the end of her leash and met a golden retriever that came in later (after the boxer was gone) and they sniffed each other and then went back to their "corners". No problem.

Tracey - Darlin' Daisy's Mom

rattytatty


Training Moderator
Training Moderator
06/23/2008 1:18 PM  
Going to the end of her leash is MUCH different than sitting in your lap... .or Bailey guarding his treats, so you really can't compare the two scenarios...

If you can find someone who has an older, calm dog.... or even a young, well trained dog... (to assure a fight doesn't occur).... it would be good to work with them on this issue with Daisy.

I've seen people who think such behavior is cute... "they are protecting their mommy" type of mentality. Well.. it's not cute and what some people don't realize is that it can carry over into other scenarios. If you let the dog get by with it in one situation... they don't know they can't do it in another situation.

~Nora~
Mom to Hoss, Lil'Bit, Buster & Bailey, CGC, NA, NAJ, OA, OAJ
DaisysMom


Moderator
<b>Moderator</b>
06/23/2008 1:21 PM  
Yes, I know. I definitely don't think it's cute. I'm still on the lookout for a good practice dog

Tracey - Darlin' Daisy's Mom

wendyms


Newbie
Newbie
06/26/2008 1:06 PM  

My Rat is all of a sudden becoming really possessive. He bit my daughter (4) for entering her own room because he had a bug of all things! I also noticed recently that he is guarding his food. I have had the kids feed him since he was brought here as a puppy and put there hands in his food bowl while he was eating. I never had a problem. It all started with the weird possissiveness over bugs. How do I fix this? I can't have a pet I can't trust near my kids no matter how much I love him. Thanks in advance for any advice.

wendyms


Newbie
Newbie
06/26/2008 1:14 PM  

Another behavior I forgot to mention that is new is he is extremely vocal now. He barks or grumbles if cars go down our street or someone is outside. Could these two behaviors go hand in hand? Thanks again!

bluedog


Rat Royalty
Rat Royalty
06/26/2008 2:03 PM  
My lab and rattie had a loud discussion yesterday over a closed bag of bully sticks that I had not even opened yet. I was putting things away and left it on the ottoman. I routinely practice "claiming" their treats and giving them back. We were also in a pet store yesterday (my favorite) where they do not want people to allow their dogs to meet because of all the smells of food, dogs don't behave like they might in other situations. I thought that made sense.

Nora, it is so great that you had a friend that was willing to spend the time to help you work through that. Most people would shriek and separate the dogs...

Christine
Mom to Michael & Charlotte
Moose (lab), Paisley (rattie), Clark & Lois (tolerant kitties)
SkittlesMOM


Ratastic
Ratastic
06/26/2008 2:13 PM  
What's in the air??!
Skittles bit my daughter on the face the other day. Chelsea tried to lay her head on the pillow skittles was laying on. NEVER been an issue.

She is now banished to the floor, no laying on the couch or pillows and no laps unless asked to come up. Any other suggestions?

Patty
jtabor


Rattie
Rattie
07/06/2008 1:41 PM  

Guarding/possive behavior can be a BIG issue, and Nora is absolutely right.  It can come up no matter how well-trained your dog is, and it needs to be addressed proactively.  When we added Magic to the household last November, little miss Dee Dee, who is working on her RAE and CDX decided she "owned" me, and the puppy was not allowed near me or on my lap.  I put a stop to it by reprimanding Dee Dee with a disgusted "uh uh" and them exiled her to her crate for 1/2 hour or so.  I would hold the puppy for a little while, but not the entire time.  Then, when Dee Dee came back out, she was allowed near me on the floor only.  It took about four times for Dee Dee to put it together.  Now, she grumbles under her breath when she is on my lap and the puppy jumps up, and if the puppy is really irratating, she goes and lies in her crate in disgust, but no more guarding behaviors. 

A friend of mine put down her GRCH Parson Russell terrier when he bit her 4-year-old grandson when the child came near her while the dog was sitting in her lap. Luckily, the bite was not serious, but it could have been.  The child had puncture wounds in his throat.   I felt really badly for the dog because I think my friend inadvertently set her dog up to fail by not establishing clear boundaries for the dog from the beginning.  IThe dog had been growling at her husband when he hugged her, and even growled at her when he was sleeping on her lap and she moved her legs or disturbed him, but she didn't do anything about it.  It is NOT FUNNY if a dog guards his owner or his possessions.  (I do allow the dogs to warn the other dogs away from their food dish, but from puppyhood on, they are trained that any human, no matter how small, can take food from them). 

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