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Rat-Terrier.com
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coolme

Newbie

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| 04/24/2008 1:32 PM |
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Our rat terrier was adopted from a shelter a year ago. When we first got “Buddy” he was two years old, overweight and easy going. At first he was VERY passive and relaxed, the only thing he wanted to do was eat and sleep. When we took him to the dog park for the first time, he froze with fear and didn’t know what to do. That’s when we realized that he had never been socialized or taken to a dog park before. My wife and I work full time so “Buddy” had to stay home all day by himself watching Days of our lives and Oprah. The fact that we were gone didn’t seem to bother him or create any stress for him. During the first 7 months we took him hiking with us, we took him for long walks around the neighborhood and to the doggie park. Little by little he started playing and running in the park with other dogs, in other words he was finally coming out of his shell. But then the winter came and he became an indoor dog, and that’s when the behavioral problems started. First he started peeing on the carpet, which up to that point he had never done before. Then he started getting more defensive when it was time to take a bath. You see, he has always been TERRIFIED of water… When we first got him he used to stay still, with his tail between his legs when we grabbed him to taking to the bathroom. After 9 months living with us he started laying on his back and moving his torso when we put our hands underneath his body, making it very difficult for us to grab him without hurting his back. After 10 month living with us he started growling and showing us his teeth. He didn’t dare to take a bite at us but you could see that he was thinking about it. After 11 months living with us he has growled, become more aggressive and has finally bitten me. He bit me so hard that not only he ruptured my skin but he cut deep into my flesh. I was bleeding and had to go to the hospital where they gave me three stitches. He has also bitten my wife. We started taking him to the dog park again with the hope that this would change his behavior. But that is not the case, he has become extremely defensive of his territory and of us when other dogs approach. He has attacked and chase all types of dogs (German Shepherds, Rottweilers, Boxers etc) for no aparent reason. One time he chased a Golden Retriever and clinched onto his back and didn’t let go. Picture a Golden retriever running at full speed for 25 yards with Buddy biting him on the back with his four legs on the air. He looked like a giant tick attached to that poor dog. When we finally managed to let him let go, he had a huge ball of fur in his mouth. I thought that taking him to the dog park would release his newly found aggression but that has not been the case, if anything he has become more aggressive. Now, I cannot even take him to the dog park because I’m afraid he might hurt another dog. I established my role as the alpha male in my relationship with Buddy, so I don’t know what is going on. He is a submissive dog all day until I decide to give him a bath. I don’t know what to do or what is causing this, PLEASE HELP. We’d really like to find a solution to my dog’s behavioral problems before he gets out of control. How can I make my dog not be terrified of the water? |
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Mitzy's Mom

 Alpha Feist

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| 04/24/2008 2:01 PM |
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I'm not a trainer but it sounds like the problem goes deeper than just a fear of water. For one thing - please -rethink taking him to the dog park until this agression issue is solved. The reason is his antagonizing of larger dogs can get him killed - he was lucky the golden ran and didn't turn on him. Sounds like lots of exercise really helped him (hiking, etc.) and the problems started up when the exercise lessened. Did the peeing inside have anything to do with the bath or what that entirely separate? |
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Mary Beth, mom to the Lollipop Kids
Georgia Foster Mom www.ratbonerescues.com; www.newrattitude.org |
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PamWh

 Attention Starved

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| 04/24/2008 2:28 PM |
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I agree with Mary Beth about staying out of the dog park until you can get to the bottom of his behavior change. I think some structured walks with some obedience commands like stop, sit, and stay might help. He would get some exercise and learn that he has to listen to and obey you. How often do you bathe him? I would take it slow with him, perhaps just wiping him down with doggie wet wipes or a damp washcloth for now. I don't know what else to advise you to do. |
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PamWh aka Bob's Mom
If your rattie ain't happy, ain't nobody happy! |
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DaisysMom

 Moderator

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| 04/24/2008 2:39 PM |
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I agree with no more dog park, at least off leash, until you get his dog aggression issues under control. Sooner or later, he's going to pick on someone who decides to fight back, and with a dog much bigger than him, the outcome won't be good As for the baths, it sounds as if he needs perhaps some conditioning. Perhaps start with a shallow pan of water (like a dish pan) and wet a cloth and just wipe him down. If he remains relatively calm and relaxed, praise him and offer a treat. BUT if he seems unsettled, do NOT offer any type of affection, comfort, treat or anything, else you'll just reinforce his wariness. The big problem though is biting you and your wife, which is, of course, completely intolerable and must be dealt with ASAP. He obviously does not see either of you as alpha or "the boss". Likely at this point you are giving off a leery vibe when he growls, etc., which is understandable, but you're going to have to try and get to the place of being very "matter of fact" or, as Caeser Milan would say "calm assertive". Some more description of his daily life might help others give more solid advice. Is he crate trained? Where does he sleep? How is he fed? Etc. Any other pets or family members in the house? Any possible health issues? You might want to also seriously considering hiring a professional trainer if at all possible. |
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Tracey - Darlin' Daisy's Mom
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rattytatty

 Training Moderator

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| 04/24/2008 2:56 PM |
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There are two common reasons why a dog is aggressive towards members of his own human family:
1) He’s trying to defend something he thinks of as his from a perceived threat (you). For example, if you walk by, or make eye contact while your dog is eating, he growls. This is known as resource guarding, and though it may sound innocuous, there’s actually a lot more going on here than your dog simply trying to keep his kibble to himself.
2) He’s not comfortable with the treatment/handling he’s getting from you or other members of the family. This sounds as though it's the case with the bathing incident(s).
All dogs have different handling thresholds. Some dogs like lots of cuddles, and are perfectly content to be hugged, kissed, and have arms slung over their shoulders (this is the ultimate “I’m the boss” gesture to a dog, which is why a lot of them won’t tolerate it.) Others – usually the ones not accustomed to a great deal of physical contact from a very young age – aren’t comfortable with too much full-body contact and will get nervy and agitated if someone persists in trying to hug them.
Another common cause of handling-induced aggression is a bad grooming experience: nail-clipping and bathing are the two common culprits. When you clip a dog’s nails, it’s very easy to “quick” him – that is, cut the blood vessel that runs inside the nail. This is extremely painful to a dog, and is a sure-fire way to cause a long-lasting aversion to those clippers.
Being washed is something that a great many dogs have difficulty dealing with – a lot of owners, when confronted with a wild-eyed, half-washed, upset dog, feel that in order to complete the wash they have to forcibly restrain him. This only adds to the dog’s sense of panic, and reinforces his impression of a wash as something to be avoided at all costs – if necessary, to defend himself from it with a display of teeth and growls... and sometimes even bites.
The instant he starts to show signs of stress, stop immediately and let him relax. Try to make the whole thing into a game: give him lots of praise, pats, and treats. Take things slowly. Don’t push it too far: if you get nervous, stop. Trust me... your nervousness feeds directly to your dog! Emphasis should be placed on keeping YOU calm and keeping your dog calm.
Dogs show aggression for a reason: they’re warning you to back off. Very few dogs bite without some sort of warning first. Look for the warnings (growling.. showing of teeth... hair up on back, etc.) If your dog just can’t seem to accept being bathed... no matter how much practice you put in, it’s best to hand the job over to a professional.
You are handicapped in a sense because you do not know what the dog's background is. He very well could have had some bad experiences that are triggering this behavior. But one thing is for sure -- The best treatment for dominant, aggressive behavior is consistent, frequent obedience work, which will underline your authority over your dog. Just two fifteen-minute sessions a day will make it perfectly clear to your dog that you’re the boss, and that it pays to do what you say. You can make this fact clear to him by rewarding him (with treats and lavish praise) for obeying a command, and isolating him (putting him in “time-out”, either outside the house or in a room by himself) for misbehavior.
Also... brush up on your understanding of canine psychology and communication, so that you understand what he’s trying to say – this will help you to nip any dominant behaviors in the bud, and to communicate your own authority more effectively. I cannot stress this enough.
Don't hesitate to seek the help of a professional if you need to.
And... I would not be taking him to any dog parks unless he is on a leash!  |
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 ~Nora~ Mom to Hoss, Lil'Bit, Buster & Bailey, CGC, NA, NAJ |
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coolme

Newbie

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| 04/24/2008 3:01 PM |
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| I bathe him twice a week. No, I think he pees on the carpet out of boredom. It is a very random thing, I really cannot pin point the reason for this. But now looking back I can recall a few occasions in which he sprinkled a few drops, when he heard the water running in the bathtub. The problem is when I grab him to take him to the water source, once he is in the bathtub he is as submissive (and scared) as he can be. He doesn't even dare to escape... The same happens when we are at the beach, he becomes tense and starts barking at the waves but doesn't approach the water. As a matter of fact he doesn't even like lakes, rivers or little mountain streams. |
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gwacie

 Rat-A-Tat-Tat

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| 04/24/2008 3:05 PM |
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| Twice a week is FAR too often to bathe a dog and is very bad for their coats. Why do you bathe him so often? Does someone have allergies? |
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gwacie (Bethany) http://www.myadams.net/dogs/ |
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rattytatty

 Training Moderator

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| 04/24/2008 3:06 PM |
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| Why are you bathing him twice a week? These are usually very clean, maintenance free dogs. Not sure it's a grand idea to bath him twice a week unless he has a particular "skin problem" or something? |
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 ~Nora~ Mom to Hoss, Lil'Bit, Buster & Bailey, CGC, NA, NAJ |
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dnorton

 Obsessed

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| 04/24/2008 3:15 PM |
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I agree on the bathing. Twice a week is way too much. Has he been neutered? I don't know if you mentioned this or not. That could be a problem also. A trainer is a good idea also. Good luck |
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Mimzy's Mom RatBones Rescue Foster Mom That Big Tall Gal Jay Married Mother of Two GrandMother of Three Gardener Ponder |
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dnorton

 Obsessed

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| 04/24/2008 3:15 PM |
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| Also, do you crate him? |
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Mimzy's Mom RatBones Rescue Foster Mom That Big Tall Gal Jay Married Mother of Two GrandMother of Three Gardener Ponder |
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PamWh

 Attention Starved

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| 04/24/2008 3:18 PM |
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When I give my dog a bath, I don't mention the word at all and I don't run the water first. If I did, I would have to crawl under the bed and pull him out. I calmly take him into the bathroom and shut the door. Then I start the water and put him in the tub. However, I only bathe him about once a month or every few weeks unless he has gotten into something stinky. |
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PamWh aka Bob's Mom
If your rattie ain't happy, ain't nobody happy! |
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bluedog

 Rat Royalty

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| 04/24/2008 9:37 PM |
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I would definitely resume the walks - long ones! When and if you do resume going to the dog park, you need to only take a TIRED dog to the dog park. Dog parks should be a reward, not a primary energy release. I would also make sure he is tired when you bath him also. A dog that is inside all day can release his frustration as aggression (some get excited, etc). There is nothing wrong with having a dog in all day but he has to have a way to release energy, that would explain why the aggression would increase when the walks subsided. I am a Cesar fan, I know not everything is a one size fits all, but in one of his shows he addressed the issue of a dog terrified of water, hose, baths etc. You might check it out. I wish I knew which one it was. I remember he used a leash to lead the dog into the tub and they practiced that at least a few times. Maybe that is something you practice everyday? without bathing. A small dog might need a step stool. I don't think he is seeing you as alpha male or he would not be taking the role. They either lead or they follow (and it can flip back and forth). Just some thoughts, hopefully you can find something that works for you. Christine |
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Christine Mom to Michael & Charlotte Moose (lab), Paisley (rattie), Clark & Lois (tolerant kitties) |
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pepper

 Obsessed

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| 04/27/2008 6:43 AM |
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With Pepper, we knew she didn't like the water, but she wasn't terrified of it. what made it worse was that she couldn't stand on the slippery bottom of the tub. We used shaping. We took her into the bathroom and closed the door. Did that for a few days. When she was ok with that and not getting nervous at all, we put her in the tub. No water, just in the tub. When she could stand there indifferent about it, we turned on the water. Just a little, maybe 3 seconds of water in the tub, but enough where she could approach it, not it approaching her. She actually drank some of the water after a couple times. We then put a little more in, just enough where we could scoop it up and put some on her back. After she was ok with that, then we went for the soap. It took a few weeks, and a dog that still isn't too keen on water. But she's good at taking a bath. |
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Kristin ~ Pepper's mommy |
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gwacie

 Rat-A-Tat-Tat

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| 04/27/2008 7:47 AM |
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Incidentally, as a side note, if you are really having trouble with your dog seeming 'stinky' to you, it might be worth your while to consider a food change. One of the things that forever has amazed me is how much more kibble fed dogs smell then raw fed dogs. And of course the better the kibble is, the less the dogs smell as well. My guys have very little doggie oder. People are amazed when they enter my home that I have 4 dogs (and often fosters) since they really don't give off a strong oder. Another advantage with raw is the relatively unsmelly small poops which really do turn white in a day or less. I think the reason this happens (the no smells) is because in raw all the food is very bio available to the animal, meaning they USE all the nutrients they eat. In kibble there is more waste which comes out in the coat, smell and of course fecal matter. The better the kilbble, of course, the less this happens. I was recently reminded of this when we decided to keep the Peanut and took him off Nature's Variety human grade grain free kibble and put him just on the raw everyone else here gets. He went from pooping 4 times a day to 2 times a day and his D.O. (which was very mild) is about gone. Just thought you might find it something to think about. |
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gwacie (Bethany) http://www.myadams.net/dogs/ |
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