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Rat-Terrier.com
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rattytatty

 Training Moderator

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| 03/11/2008 7:50 AM |
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I'm in a quandry with a long-time friend and co-worker...
Late yesterday afternoon as I was preparing to leave, my co-worker came into my office and said he wanted to talk to me. Seems his wife's sister and husband are living with them in their relatively new home for a "few months" until the apartment they have rented becomes available.
So last Sunday afternoon Jared's "guests" go for a Sunday afternoon ride and return with a six-week old pitbull puppy they purchased from a local pet store. Jared and his wife have a darling rat terrier and he said the two are getting along well.. but.... (1) They purchased and brought the dog home (to their house) without asking permission (2) They aren't keen on pitbulls anyways (3) When they informed the apartment complex that they had a pitbull... the apartment complex is now refusing to rent to them. (is this legal? ...)
Problem on the table is... they have never owned a dog before and certainly know nothing about pitbulls. Now... granted I have seen some really great pitbulls and helped train one several years ago for a family who had children. But... this couple has no desire to bring in a trainer... they see no need for it.
I stressed the importance of training this puppy and the importance of starting NOW... and Jared agrees. (wow.. talk about going the extra mile!) So he has offered to pay for the training if I'll do it.
I don't want to do it, although I asked him to give me time to consider it... but on the flip side, I'm afraid if I don't... will they get someone else? Jared said... probably not... which I don't understand??? I am adamant about believeing that dogs need to be trained... but am even more adamant that pitbulls need to be trained and started at a very young age.
Coming from a pet store, they do not know what this dog's background/lineage is. I'm not sure I can walk away from this situation... but it's not something I want to do. If this were not a friend I could say no easily..... and for me to lecture him on how stupid his brother & sister-in-law are would serve no useful purpose at this point.
I feeling like I'm between the proverbial rock and hard place... cuz I feel so strongly this dog needs one-on-one training and not Petsmart classes, ya know?
ackkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk.... I told him I 'd let him know in a few days.....
WHY do people do such stupid things??? Why couldn't they have purchased a little rat terrier.... I'd be much more thrilled about training a rat terrier !! |
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 ~Nora~ Mom to Hoss, Lil'Bit, Buster & Bailey, CGC, NA, NAJ |
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DaisysMom

 Moderator

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| 03/11/2008 8:00 AM |
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Good Grief!!!! Can you imagine the nerve of some people. How do you go for a drive and come back with any dog, unannounced, to the home your family is nice enough to let you live in until you get your own apartment ready. Someone that clueless probably doesn't need to own a pit, thta's for sure. And now they may be staying there indefinitely if they can't (and likely won't) find an apartment manager willing to rent to a pitt bull owner. That's pretty standard at this point. I'm sorry, Nora. I have no easy solution |
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Tracey - Darlin' Daisy's Mom
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swatson6

 Attention Starved

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| 03/11/2008 8:09 AM |
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| I don't know either, but I hope that is not another pitbull that is going to be in a shelter. There are so many of them and they just are not as adoptable as other breeds. Our shelters here are full of them. And with a petstore puppy, you have no clue about the parents or their temperments. I love pitbulls, but to own one I would HAVE to know it's lineage, there is just too much bad bred into them. As far as being refused at the apartment, I believe there are lots of places that have these rules, it's an insurance thing. |
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Sarah
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rattytatty

 Training Moderator

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| 03/11/2008 9:24 AM |
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My sentiments exactly....so much in a dog is genetic.... I guess I'm just a bit distraught cuz I'm feeling an obligation that I'm not sure I should be feeling. I want to say "no" (actually... I don't have the time!) but SHOULD I say no? What happens if I say no and no one else trains the dog? What if the dog grows up only to end up in a kill shelter.. how would I feel? I hate situations like this. |
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 ~Nora~ Mom to Hoss, Lil'Bit, Buster & Bailey, CGC, NA, NAJ |
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Mitzy's Mom

 Alpha Feist

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| 03/11/2008 9:39 AM |
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People are idiots. If they wanted a pittbull they should have waited until they were in their own home, knew that the apartment allowed pitbulls AND gotten one from a reputable breeder who breeds for good temperments. I just hope they move out before the pitbull gets older and hurts the little rattie....if it were my house they'd be leaving with their puppy yesterday. Sorry, no tolerance for stuff like that. We just drove past a guy who was walking a pitbull last night. He was on the sidewalk, young, muscular guy but he had zero control over that strong dog....I think he just had a regular leather or nylon collar on it. Now, if I had been walking my dogs and that pit had wanted to go after mine - that idiot owner couldn't have kept hold of him! |
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Mary Beth, mom to the Lollipop Kids
Georgia Foster Mom www.ratbonerescues.com; www.newrattitude.org |
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PamWh

 Attention Starved

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| 03/11/2008 9:47 AM |
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Nora, this is not your problem. If you don't have time or don't want to train these idiots on how to handle their new puppy, don't you know some other dog trainers you could recommend? I personally think your friend should make his relatives return the puppy to the pet store and stress to them that they cannot bring another animal into his house. |
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PamWh aka Bob's Mom
If your rattie ain't happy, ain't nobody happy! |
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rattagan's mom

 Terrier Terror

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| 03/11/2008 9:56 AM |
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| Nora, you can't take on everyone else's problems. I think you are the one who told me the very same thing with some things that happened to me. It is not YOUR responsiblity. And also you are so busy as it is, where would you get more time to train a pup that the people shouldn't have gotten anyway until they had their own place. That was not only completely stupid but also extremely irresponsible. They best be glad it wasn't me they did that too. I would tell them right quick that they brought the dog into my house uninvited(like they own the place when they don't have a place of their own) and they either return it to the store or pack their bags and the dog and leave my house. Where they go would be their problem. Totally inconsiderate of the brother that is letting them have a place to stay until theirs was ready. They shouldn't have gotten the dog without talking to the apartment owners beforehand. Be honest with your friend and tell him you just don't have the time, honesty is the best policy even if it hurts the friend. But be true to yourself and let them handle their problems. I hope I wasn't mean but it is wrong for you to have to fix what shouldn't have happened anyway. It is up to your friend to tell his brother what he did was wrong and either return the dog or move out of the brother's house. Love ya, sure hope everything works out ok. Off to see Phil's mom in the hospital I'll catch ya later. |
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Janie, Ratty and Cameo's Mom
"A smile is a crooked line that sets many things straight." |
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Crystal

 Ratastic

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| 03/11/2008 11:30 AM |
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| I'm sorry to say this but it is up to your co-worker to take care of them selves. and if thier family is this disrespectful then it is up to them and not you to take care of the dog situation. According to you they where only to stay there until the apartment was ready and having this dog has made that impossible then only your co-worker can fix the situation, training this puppy wont help if they are still living there instead of being able to find thier own place. I hope things work out though, but as others have said this IS NOT YOUR PROBLEM TO FIX. |
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Mom to Guenhwyvar, When life gets hard, take a long hot bath and enjoy knowing the door locks and your phone is on silent!!

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garyjena

 Terrier Terror

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| 03/11/2008 11:56 AM |
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Nora, I can kinda feel your pain. This is how we got Boozer. My nephew that lives with us, supposed to be temporary, he is 28, came home with Boozer when he was 8 weeks old. The back story to this is that I wanted a puppy for years and husband always said no. Now his nephew comes home one day with a puppy. Luckily he was the kind of dog that I had wanted but I was furious. Now, the nephew has decided that he can't handle the responsibilty of Boozer so he gave him to us. We got Geigh two months after Boozer after my husband realized that he would like a dog. We really didn't want two dogs but I couldn't say no to Boozer. Sorry so long but you need to realize that even if you do train the people how to handle their dog, if they are the kind of people that don't think they need training, will they do the work that is needed to keep the training going. Good Luck. |
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gwacie

 Rat-A-Tat-Tat

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| 03/11/2008 12:03 PM |
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I love pitties but I agree with Sara - too many unknowns in their genetics if not careful AND they MUST be trained. There is so much room for aggression and those powerful jaws are lethal. Of course it's just the sort of folks like these inconsiderate family members that end UP with the untrained potentially dangerous dogs that give them the bad name (that and the fighting of course). If it were me, Nora, I'd decline. If you DO decide to train make up a contract that releases you from any future liability. Anyone foolish enough to just impulse buy a pittie without thought to future living arrangements or familial courtesy is also stupid enough to blame the trainer if something goes wrong later. Sad but true. It might be a perfectly nice pup but it's already been dealt a tough hand. Can you instead recommend another trainer (and give him rescue information if the unfortunate does happen)? OR tell him to be firm and say they have to move out or return the pup? Good luck. You are a kind hearted soul. |
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gwacie (Bethany) http://www.myadams.net/dogs/ |
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canineboss

 Rattie

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| 03/13/2008 5:03 PM |
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I have seen and trained several great Pitt's and think they really get a bad rep, mostly because of Bad owners. same with Rotties and Dobies..GHMO An instructor, I had, did training for movies and books used to have a Pitt as his Demo Dog, and I think even appeared on Johnny Carson..ooops I'm telling my age a little... Everyone is right it's not your problem, but let's suppose you do....You may have the opportunity to change this pups future and show this couple the err of their ways... Sometimes it just takes someone steping in to make difference...Bad things happen when good people do nothing... to paraphrase an old saying... Follow your heart and do what you think is best...That's what I try to do... Of course there's that other saying I hate...No Good Dead Goes unpunished...This ones seems to happen more often to me but I keep trying... |
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Live everyday like it's your last because tomorrow is promised to no one |
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rattytatty

 Training Moderator

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| 03/13/2008 7:47 PM |
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Posted By canineboss on 03/13/2008 5:03 PM
I have seen and trained several great Pitt's and think they really get a bad rep, mostly because of Bad owners. same with Rotties and Dobies..GHMO
An instructor, I had, did training for movies and books used to have a Pitt as his Demo Dog, and I think even appeared on Johnny Carson..ooops I'm telling my age a little...
Everyone is right it's not your problem, but let's suppose you do....You may have the opportunity to change this pups future and show this couple the err of their ways... Sometimes it just takes someone steping in to make difference...Bad things happen when good people do nothing... to paraphrase an old saying...
Follow your heart and do what you think is best...That's what I try to do...
Of course there's that other saying I hate...No Good Dead Goes unpunished...This ones seems to happen more often to me but I keep trying...
For this reason you stated... and that I agree with... I agreed to take this on. I agreed to do three sessions with them, and then re-evaluate. I can tell after three sessions whether or not the owners are going to be committed to training their pup. We'll see how it goes...
I too have seen some really great pits.. SO much of any success is how they are socialized when very very young and the commitment and time the owners put in to training. Let's pray they will do what they'll need to do.
Thanks everyone for your input ! |
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 ~Nora~ Mom to Hoss, Lil'Bit, Buster & Bailey, CGC, NA, NAJ |
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tauney4

 Pack Leader

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| 03/13/2008 8:07 PM |
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| this is just my op but if you dont want to do it then dont. and they were stupid for buying the dog in the first place with out consulting them first and i think it is legal for an apartment complex to say no to them for having a pit, everyone has a freedom to say no. yes they have got a bad rep but they are strong dogs and once they latch on there in it for the blood. i dont want to say anything more cause i dont want to open a can of worms but really i would gracefully decline and be done with the situation!!!! |
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abullard

Ratterific

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| 03/13/2008 8:15 PM |
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| i agree with tauney4 in the first place and by the way it is what the apartment complex wants to do and pitbulls are agrassive sometimes so i think if they wanted to rent from the apartment then they should of asked the people if it was ok to have a pitbull in the apartment before doing it so that is their loss of money. I am sorry guys if you think i am being alittle hateful i just stressing out having a new born in a couple of days and wondering if everything is ok |
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tauney4

 Pack Leader

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| 03/13/2008 8:22 PM |
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you are not being hateful.. i fully understand  |
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abullard

Ratterific

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| 03/13/2008 8:26 PM |
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| ok i have a quetsion tauney4 how does rat terriers do with new borns? like buddy is only 7month my puppy buddy and the new born will be at the house in a couple of days and i have to lock buddy up 24/7 while the baby is there |
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mrsmollywobbles

 Rattie

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| 03/14/2008 2:37 PM |
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Usually apartments have a weight limit on animals too, and pitbulls are larger, heavier dogs which I dont think would do well living in an apartment. If I was in the position of the owner I would have done more research before paying for a dog, at this point they can try looking into a duplex so at least they have some kind of yard, usually those can rent for the same as a nice apartment. Second If that is not an option and they have taken on more than they can handel they may want to call the pet store and see if there is a return polocy, I know that may sound uncaring, but the poor thing may be better off with a couple who are more engaged to train correctly. This is a really hard situation I am not even all that sure of my own advise here. I just know that a LOT of pits are unjustly put to sleep because of poor training and care and I just want to cry thinking about it. I live in a lower income neighborhood and a lot of my neighbors own pitbulls I see that they are sweethearts, but at the same time I see their owners do not train them properly. They even let them run loose in the streets. I hate to think that this is the fate of any other pit and I really hope that all turns out well with your friend. As for training the dog yourself, If you are not comfertable or do not want(or have the time) to do it, I would tell them that they need to have the dog trainined or unfortunatly look into finding another home for the little one. I am sorry if this seams harsh, I hope I have not stepped on any paws here, that was not my intention  |
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Assume a virtue, if you have it not. - "Hamlet", Act 3, Scene 4 |
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rattytatty

 Training Moderator

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| 03/18/2008 7:51 AM |
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I personally would not own a pitbull in an apartment setting.... or ANY setting where the dog's physical activity had to be limited. But I feel that way about ANY breed... not just pits. I think there are only a very few breeds who should be confined to small areas with limited physical exercise. However... on the flip side of that....I do know people who live in condos or apartments and make the effort to make SURE their dogs have enough physical and mental stimulation. A bored dog is not a happy dog...
I have agreed to train this pitbull puppy because I have the opportunity to change this little guy's future.. hopefully...and I know if I don't do it then they more than likely won't find anyone else. Because of my connection with my co-worker... I'm in a situation to help out. I know what they did was wrong. I know they did not make a wise choice. I know they were inconsiderate...etc. etc. etc. But I cannot change that. It's water under the bridge.
What I DO have the opportunity to do is to direct in a positive way this pup's future, and hopefully prevent this dog ending up in a kill shelter at some point. And I feel a responsibility to do that... although I know it's not really my "place" or my "responsibility" or even my business really. But I would not feel good about myself if I was given this opportunity and ignored it.
There is every logical and rightful reason in the world why I should NOT do this. But... I have to...cuz it's who I am.
What good is a gift if you don't share it when these opportunities arise? I have an obligation... at least in my mind... to take this on. Pitbulls, by the way... are extremely trainable and intelligent. The key is beginning at an EARLY age, and consistency and commitment... immediately establishing yourself as the leader (alpha) and never letting up on reinforcing that position. I've seen some great pitbulls... I know two trainers who have owned them. I saw one climb a tree one time... about 15 feet straight up in the air, and it was mind-boggling to me how he did it. He was a highly trained dog...who would gladly give his own life for any one of his family members in a heartbeat.
Anyways.... I appreciate the input. Now that I've calmed down about the situation.... I think everything will be ok. I start training with him next week. |
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 ~Nora~ Mom to Hoss, Lil'Bit, Buster & Bailey, CGC, NA, NAJ |
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Morgan

 Moderator

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| 03/18/2008 12:17 PM |
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Posted By rattytatty on 03/18/2008 7:51 AM
I personally would not own a pitbull in an apartment setting.... or ANY setting where the dog's physical activity had to be limited. But I feel that way about ANY breed... not just pits. I think there are only a very few breeds who should be confined to small areas with limited physical exercise. However... on the flip side of that....I do know people who live in condos or apartments and make the effort to make SURE their dogs have enough physical and mental stimulation. A bored dog is not a happy dog...
I have agreed to train this pitbull puppy because I have the opportunity to change this little guy's future.. hopefully...and I know if I don't do it then they more than likely won't find anyone else. Because of my connection with my co-worker... I'm in a situation to help out. I know what they did was wrong. I know they did not make a wise choice. I know they were inconsiderate...etc. etc. etc. But I cannot change that. It's water under the bridge.
What I DO have the opportunity to do is to direct in a positive way this pup's future, and hopefully prevent this dog ending up in a kill shelter at some point. And I feel a responsibility to do that... although I know it's not really my "place" or my "responsibility" or even my business really. But I would not feel good about myself if I was given this opportunity and ignored it.
There is every logical and rightful reason in the world why I should NOT do this. But... I have to...cuz it's who I am.
What good is a gift if you don't share it when these opportunities arise? I have an obligation... at least in my mind... to take this on. Pitbulls, by the way... are extremely trainable and intelligent. The key is beginning at an EARLY age, and consistency and commitment... immediately establishing yourself as the leader (alpha) and never letting up on reinforcing that position. I've seen some great pitbulls... I know two trainers who have owned them. I saw one climb a tree one time... about 15 feet straight up in the air, and it was mind-boggling to me how he did it. He was a highly trained dog...who would gladly give his own life for any one of his family members in a heartbeat.
Anyways.... I appreciate the input. Now that I've calmed down about the situation.... I think everything will be ok. I start training with him next week.
Nora, I think you are doing a great thing by helping to train this dog. I understand why you wouldn't want to and you will probably dread it at first, but I'm sure after you being to see the progress he is making you will be glad that you agreed to do it. It will be a good feeling to know that you are helping out this little guy. 
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-Morgan (Bella's Mommy) |
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rattytatty

 Training Moderator

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| 03/18/2008 12:32 PM |
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Thanks for the support, Morgan.... If, after 3-4 sessions, I determine that the owners are not going to do their part (which is the HUGE part)... then I can walk away without feeling any responsibility. |
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 ~Nora~ Mom to Hoss, Lil'Bit, Buster & Bailey, CGC, NA, NAJ |
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rattytatty

 Training Moderator

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| 03/18/2008 12:44 PM |
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| Morgan -- double post? |
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 ~Nora~ Mom to Hoss, Lil'Bit, Buster & Bailey, CGC, NA, NAJ |
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rattagan's mom

 Terrier Terror

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| 03/18/2008 4:21 PM |
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| Nora you are doing a great thing even though it is not your problem. You are as bad as I am my friend, neither one of us can say no to a little critter in need. I hope all goes well and that they continue what you begin. Bless you, you are a special person and I am glad that I have the honor to call you "Friend." |
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Janie, Ratty and Cameo's Mom
"A smile is a crooked line that sets many things straight." |
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justan0therjess

Newbie

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| 03/23/2008 8:01 PM |
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| A lot of apartments have a pet deposit (such as mine) which can be pretty expensive (i paid $350) but most of them have limits on size, even breed. They can make up their own rules of how they want to go about this, my apartment requires that your pet can be no more than 35 pounds... thats really irresponsible for them to not think things through before buying the dog, just don't punish yourself for other peoples mistakes, if you don't want to train him/her.. then tell them that you arent comfortable with it. |
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