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Subject: Emotions in dogs and how it can help with training
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Author Messages
mario07


Bratty Ratty
Bratty Ratty
12/29/2007 7:01 PM  

I've been reading this awesome book called "For the Love of a Dog" by Patricia McConnel.  She wrote "The Other End of the Leash" also.  I highly recommend you all read these two books... they are incredible! 

Have you ever wondered why giving food rewards during training is so effective?  It's not the actual food that is motivating your dog to do well (they don't have developed taste buds like we do), it's the feeling of pleasing that is the motivator.  Once your dog learns a new trick or command, typically we don't treat them every time they sit, stay, etc.. once it's been mastered.  The actual act of pleasing their person has been ingrained in their brains so that a food reward isn't necessary to motivate the obedience!  Isn't that COOL??   

I've often wondered why Mario will be just as excited to sit, stay, come, etc. with out getting treats as he is with getting treats.  Positive rewards charge the dogs' brains and it feels good to them to please us.  Once they learn how to please us, they don't need the treat because our pleasure becomes reward enough.  Wow! 

Also, dogs have expressions the same as we do.  They are reading our faces and body language looking for information about what to do next.  Have you ever felt nervous about your dog meeting a new dog friend and you were stiff and held your breath?  Your face was worried, perhaps your mouth formed an O, eyes wide...  this kind of posture tells your dog to be afraid, on edge or nervous themselves... 

I think this is amazing and has helped me in my own training with Mario and Pepper.  Pepper will growl, bark and  lunge at any dog, animal, person or vehicle if we are walking down the street.  I've been working with him a lot and trying to desensitize him to other things so that  he won't act crazy meeting or even seeing someone new.  After reading about this stuff, I realized that I've been very nervous and stressed walking him if I see another person walking a dog.  My body would stiffen, I would tighten his leash, my face (I'm sure) changed expressions...  Pepper would always bark and lunge at the other walkers.

Well, today I paid very close attention to MY body language and made a conscience effort to stay relaxed and kept a smile on my face.  I watched Pepper (not the other dog) and when his ears perked up and I sensed excitement in him, I said over and over, "Eeeeeeaaaaassssyyy," slowly and cheerfully.  The slower we speak, the calmer your dog will be, the faster we speak, the more energetic the dog will be.

Well, Pepper NEVER growled, barked or lunged at a group of kids riding bikes today or at another person and dog out walking!  I was amazed.  So, I see now that training is not only dependent on my dogs "getting it"  but mostly on ME to communicate to them in "dog language".  I'm really excited about it and wanted to share!! 


~~Shannon, Mario and Pepper's mom!~~

Mia and Zinnia


Ratastic
Ratastic
12/29/2007 7:15 PM  

Hi Shannon,

The nail-biter that was Pepper's homecoming has been such a wonderful story!  I've enjoyed reading every word! 

I've also been reading your and Nora's posts about Patricia McConnell's books.  I bought the two you mentioned, plus a pamphlet about being the "pack leader."  They were actually supposed to go into my stocking, but I couldn't wait, and started reading before Christmas....... 

Congratulations on your progress in understanding your pups!  Some day I hope to be where you are now.  I posted (much more than I usually do) about my understanding of the "head issues" and emotional issues in a previous thread that Mary Beth started titled, The other end of the leash. (I think.)  I'll bump it up. 

You are doing such a great job!  I admire and applaud your progress. 

Mia

 

mario07


Bratty Ratty
Bratty Ratty
12/29/2007 7:18 PM  
Thanks, Mia! I did read that other post and I think it's great that you are learning too! Isn't it great to understand and then see the methods working??
I can't wait until you are done with the books so we can talk about it. I am truly amazed and have to put the book down just to think about what I just read.
I talked to Nora the other night for a long time just about expressions. It's really incredible!!

~~Shannon, Mario and Pepper's mom!~~

Mitzy's Mom


PAWesome
PAWesome
12/29/2007 7:19 PM  
Cool Shannon! You know Skipper is my "agressive" dog, he often growls at other males. After reading this I'm almost sure I'm not as relaxed as I should be when approaching another dog. But it's hard after having him growl at so many dogs. I'm definitely going to watch my body language more and see what happens.

Mary Beth, mom to the Lollipop Kids

Georgia Foster Mom, www.newrattitude.org
Pics of my current fosters:
http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/caradoc
http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/willow
http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/fiona
mario07


Bratty Ratty
Bratty Ratty
12/29/2007 7:21 PM  
MB, it makes a huge difference. The challenge is to control ourselves... it's very hard to be relaxed when a stressful situation comes up. Good luck and let me know how it goes.

~~Shannon, Mario and Pepper's mom!~~

rattytatty


Newbie
Newbie
12/29/2007 7:26 PM  
calm... assertive.... (those are Cesar's words... ) and it works.
Glad to hear Pepper did well today, Shannon! And yes... it IS hard to remain relaxed when you are anticipating your dog going into *aggressive* mode.
I'm thrilled you are doing so well with Mario & Pepper... and thrilled that some forum members have purchased these books and are reading them. You know me... I think everyone should be as adamant about this stuff as I am... haha (and reality is most people aren't...)...
mario07


Bratty Ratty
Bratty Ratty
12/29/2007 7:28 PM  
Thanks, Nora! I think I could have perfect dogs if I could just get MY act together!! hahahaha

~~Shannon, Mario and Pepper's mom!~~

Mia and Zinnia


Ratastic
Ratastic
12/29/2007 7:34 PM  
Posted By mario07 on 12/29/2007 7:18 PM
Thanks, Mia! I did read that other post and I think it's great that you are learning too! Isn't it great to understand and then see the methods working??
I can't wait until you are done with the books so we can talk about it. I am truly amazed and have to put the book down just to think about what I just read.
I talked to Nora the other night for a long time just about expressions. It's really incredible!!



Shannon,  it IS great to see the methods work!  I've finished "The Other End of the Leash" and have about half the other book to read.  My problem is that I have to go back and re-read.  My brain does not absorb information like it used to!  I believe it is an age-related problem....... 

I've been watching Zinnia's face much more recently.  Maybe I need to be more observant, but her face does not change much.  I can see differences in her eyes, but her mouth is about the same...... 

I'm still hopeful that I'll "get it."  It'll take me longer than you, though....

Mia

rattytatty


Newbie
Newbie
12/29/2007 7:38 PM  
I suffer from the "age related thing" too, Mia !!! haha
mario07


Bratty Ratty
Bratty Ratty
12/29/2007 7:38 PM  
Honestly, I think awareness is more than half the challenge of "getting it".
It's okay if it takes longer to get... the book even addresses that. I also have to reread parts and stop just to think about what I just read. I also have to talk about it with someone who's as nutty as I am about this stuff! LOL I have to ingrain it in my brain to fully understand it. Mine is from being a mom to three kids! I lose brain cells daily!! hahaha

~~Shannon, Mario and Pepper's mom!~~

mario07


Bratty Ratty
Bratty Ratty
12/29/2007 7:41 PM  
I was just looking at the faces of our dogs in the avatars... Look at Bailey's face... he's smiling! Do you see it?
Now, look at Pepper's face... he isn't smiling but he looks relaxed and comfortable. Now, pay attention to Mario's face... he is NOT happy about getting his picture taken. The turned head is a huge indication that he's uncomfortable and wants down. (I do torture him a lot with the camera!) LOL

~~Shannon, Mario and Pepper's mom!~~

Mitzy's Mom


PAWesome
PAWesome
12/29/2007 7:42 PM  

Example of this with horses (sorry guys, I just have more experience with equines!):

If a rider rides towards a jump and is afraid (even though people watching may not see this)  she will stiffen slightly, possibly grip the reins tighter, etc.  The HORSE WILL FEEL THIS and quite possibly feel there is something about the jump to fear!  Hence, the horse may refuse the jump or "run out" to the side of the jump and the rider actually has MORE chance of falling off then.  You have to let go of the fear or nervousness, be "calm and assertive".


Mary Beth, mom to the Lollipop Kids

Georgia Foster Mom, www.newrattitude.org
Pics of my current fosters:
http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/caradoc
http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/willow
http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/fiona
Mia and Zinnia


Ratastic
Ratastic
12/29/2007 7:42 PM  
Posted By rattytatty on 12/29/2007 7:38 PM
I suffer from the "age related thing" too, Mia !!! haha



rattytatty


Newbie
Newbie
12/29/2007 7:42 PM  

"awareness" in ANY situation is half the battle! LOL You can't begin to "get it" or "correct" or anything else if you aren't aware, right?

Sometimes... it takes someone else to see something and make me aware!

mario07


Bratty Ratty
Bratty Ratty
12/29/2007 7:44 PM  
Posted By Mitzy's Mom on 12/29/2007 7:42 PM

Example of this with horses (sorry guys, I just have more experience with equines!):

If a rider rides towards a jump and is afraid (even though people watching may not see this)  she will stiffen slightly, possibly grip the reins tighter, etc.  The HORSE WILL FEEL THIS and quite possibly feel there is something about the jump to fear!  Hence, the horse may refuse the jump or "run out" to the side of the jump and the rider actually has MORE chance of falling off then.  You have to let go of the fear or nervousness, be "calm and assertive".



Great point.  I don't know much about horses but the concept is the same.  RELAX  RELAX  RELAX    I have to keep telling myself this! 


~~Shannon, Mario and Pepper's mom!~~

Mia and Zinnia


Ratastic
Ratastic
12/29/2007 7:44 PM  
Posted By mario07 on 12/29/2007 7:41 PM
I was just looking at the faces of our dogs in the avatars... Look at Bailey's face... he's smiling! Do you see it?
Now, look at Pepper's face... he isn't smiling but he looks relaxed and comfortable. Now, pay attention to Mario's face... he is NOT happy about getting his picture taken. The turned head is a huge indication that he's uncomfortable and wants down. (I do torture him a lot with the camera!) LOL



Yes, I actually see all those things!  Zinnia is the dead dog in front of the fireplace....  She likes to lie in the warm.

mario07


Bratty Ratty
Bratty Ratty
12/29/2007 7:46 PM  
Zinnia looks very warm and cozy!

~~Shannon, Mario and Pepper's mom!~~

rattytatty


Newbie
Newbie
12/29/2007 7:46 PM  
"the dead dog in front of the fireplace" hahaha (shame on you, Mia!!) She looks VERY relaxed to me! (and happy)
Mia and Zinnia


Ratastic
Ratastic
12/29/2007 7:47 PM  

Great conversation, thanks, guys! 

I gotta run.  I'm hungry.  Time for dinner.

Mia

Mitzy's Mom


PAWesome
PAWesome
12/29/2007 7:50 PM  
Hah, speaking of avatars....in mine Mitzy and Mayfly look quizzical. Lola and Loco are totally uninterested in me with the camera. They are, apparently, contemplating the origin of naval lint......LOL

Mary Beth, mom to the Lollipop Kids

Georgia Foster Mom, www.newrattitude.org
Pics of my current fosters:
http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/caradoc
http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/willow
http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/fiona
mario07


Bratty Ratty
Bratty Ratty
12/29/2007 8:15 PM  
Hahaha!! MB, you are so funny! I've got to run too. This has been a great conversation tonight! Thanks, ladies!!

~~Shannon, Mario and Pepper's mom!~~

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