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Subject: Anyone good at figuring out dog personalities?
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Jules


Firehouse Big Dog
Firehouse Big Dog
06/01/2007 10:58 AM  

I don't know if this belongs in health but no where else seemed fitting, anyway.

Patsy has always been skittish, from the day we bought her she has been skittish. She has always been terrified of kids. Then she became terrified of nail clippings lol This is normal i know. But now she is terrified of cameras. I have always taken her picture, since she came home with us. With flash, without flash she never cared. Well recently she has deceided that she is terrified of the came no matter if the flash is on. Oh and she knows cameras too, I have about 5 different cameras I shoot with and everytime one is taken out she goes into hiding.

She has issues like being put on the spot, its strange. I raised all 3 dogs the same, maybe even more delicate with patsy because she is overly sensative. But I don't get it, I hardly use flash on my cameras, i hate flash. I dont see what the fear is coming from. or how to deal with it, she is just so sensative!! And her son Milo whom left the nest at 6 weeks old is the same exact way lol So this is like some personality trait she passed down to him in her genes or something lol I used to wonder about abuse before we got her at 3 months old but Nahhh I doubt it. Espcially since milo is the same exact way.

Anyone have a clue?? lol I wanna take pics of my dog again. Everytime the camera is taken out she runs for her dad and hides under his desk for 30 minutes.


“Photography is about finding out what can happen in the frame. When you put four edges around some facts, you change those facts.” -Garry Winogrand

Been a member of rt.com since Aug. 2005
Mitzy's Mom


PAWesome
PAWesome
06/01/2007 11:37 AM  
Poor Patsy, scared of cameras and with a photographer mom! Seriously, Mayfly is my skittish one....and there is no reason for it. She wasn't handled much before I got her so I know she wasn't abused. Her mom and dad were very friendly, not skittish, when I met them. She acts like a cartoon character sometimes, like when she goes up to sniff something in the yard and then it moves and she jumps straight up in the air like 2-3 feet!

It's just her, but she's also the sweetest dog around!

Mary Beth, mom to the Lollipop Kids

Georgia Foster Mom, New Rattitude
Check out our ratties at www.newrattitude.org
Jules


Firehouse Big Dog
Firehouse Big Dog
06/01/2007 11:43 AM  
Lol yep sounds like Patsy. So sweet! But man such a nervous dog! She is great at car rides too! She goes straight to the backseat and sits there quietly, you wont even know she was in the car. the other two are in the front trying to jump out the window.

“Photography is about finding out what can happen in the frame. When you put four edges around some facts, you change those facts.” -Garry Winogrand

Been a member of rt.com since Aug. 2005
tiggarat


Bratty Ratty
Bratty Ratty
06/01/2007 3:14 PM  
I have dogs that don't like their pic taken, but they just make faces, they don't hide. It's so hard to tell with dogs, who knows what happened, if anything. Is it a sudden change in her behavior, like one day she just woke up and decided she was terrified of cameras? I wish I could be of more help.

Lisabeth

furbabies: Lucy and Molly (1 1/2 yr old decker ratties), and Rosie (3 yr old dobie)
Buddy - gone but never forgotten.

"I don't think he has any idea he's a dog, really. Of course, he thinks he has a rather odd figure for a man" - Dodie Smith
rattytatty


Newbie
Newbie
06/01/2007 4:59 PM  

Oh Jules! This a subject that is near and dear to my heart... and one I could talk forever on. The entire subject intrigues me!

Why are human beings so different from one another? Why are some people tall, some short; some brown-eyed, some blue-eyed? The fact that daughters and sons tend to look like mothers and fathers suggests that physical features are heritable, and therefore due in part to genes. But what about behavior? Why, in the very same family, are some children assertive, others shy? Why are some highly emotional, others more reserved and "Logical?" Are these traits inherited too?

Many canine personality traits are inherited... and "bad nerves" cannot be fixed. I have a miniature dachshund (Lil'Bit) who simply has bad nerves. If she gets out of her environment, she gets diarrhea and throws up. If there are visitors in our home, she won't settle down. If hubby goes on a trip... she won't settle down. I've trained this dog same as I've trained the others... I cannot train these personality attributes out of her. She hides when I bring out the ironing board or vacuum cleaner. Now mind you... many dogs have a FEW of these nerve issues... but she has ALL of them! Skittering away from a scary object or noise is not a training problem, it is a temperament problem. For example, you could teach a weak dog not to run away from a moving wheelchair. But suppose the wheel chair user dropped a book on the floor. You can be certain the dog would panic all over again. Training can, to an extent modify specific behaviors, but it cannot change the dog’s genetics. Weakness in temperament will always resurface under stress.

Too often, dogs are being used for breeding without being tested for anything, and in the US, breeding has become entirely subjective, as in “I know what I like, so I’ll breed it!” ("designer dogs"... I rest my case!)

Patsy cannot help her behavior... it is an inherited trait and I highly suspect if you look at her bloodline, you'll see it surface from time to time. It's best not to breed these dogs, and pass on these traits. Oftentimes, however, we don't know it until it's too late. It certainly doesn't mean you love her less... but it's not something we wish to pass on if we can help it.

This canine behavior class I'm taking... although I've only had one class... is SO interesting, and I'm excited about it!

tiggarat


Bratty Ratty
Bratty Ratty
06/01/2007 5:31 PM  
That's so interesting Nora! So many people breed dogs that they like the looks of, but forget the most important part...they're personality traits. My brother's friend breeds dobies (we got Rosie from her), and she looks for the personality. What traits does she want to include/exclude from her line? Rosie's dad failed the police dog test...he wasn't aggressive enough for it. But that's what she was looking for. Her line are family dogs, not guard dogs, although that is so deeply ingrained in them it's impossible to get rid of. She bred for sweetness, not meanness. She just had her female fixed today because she is too aggressive. So now the line depends on Rosie. I think she's a good, although not perfect, ideal for the breed. She's goofy, but that's the reds for you (reds are the clowns of the dobies), but she's finally maturing into a great dog, thanks in part to her adoptive rattie pups.

There are so many aspects that come into play when you think about breeding a dog, especially when you want to do it responsibly.

Lisabeth

furbabies: Lucy and Molly (1 1/2 yr old decker ratties), and Rosie (3 yr old dobie)
Buddy - gone but never forgotten.

"I don't think he has any idea he's a dog, really. Of course, he thinks he has a rather odd figure for a man" - Dodie Smith
Jules


Firehouse Big Dog
Firehouse Big Dog
06/01/2007 6:08 PM  
I fostered a lab mix who was also scared of cameras but I think it was the flash. Patsy's fear came on very suddenly, I mean I have been on this site almost 2 yrs now and I never had problems taking her pic til now. I was hoping it would go away but its been about 3-4 months now. She is the best dog, she is so eager to please. Such a happy girl and I can take her with me places and she is will never do anything bad. I don't regret breeding her, I know Milo isnt a freak 24/7. He is probably just like Patsy and attached to his parents. Actually Patsy is really good even with other people, she is just nervous around some things. I just wonder if it will get worse. I wont trade her for anything tho she is such a sweet doll. The people I got Patsy from were kinda slimey breeder, but ya know what we were looking for a female rattie. And we found her at a flea market as soon as we moved into a bigger apartment. So I think she was ment to be with us. I doubt those people would care if they were breeding bad things. Actually I have a pic of her mom she looks like a scared little dog. She looks like she need to be scooped up and hugged lol

Nora did you get Little bit as a baby? Have the fears gotten worse with time?

“Photography is about finding out what can happen in the frame. When you put four edges around some facts, you change those facts.” -Garry Winogrand

Been a member of rt.com since Aug. 2005
rattytatty


Newbie
Newbie
06/01/2007 6:32 PM  
Jules.... yes I got her at the age of six weeks old. Her siblings are the same as she is... (weak nerves). If you were to see her in her own enviornment/surroundings (without the ironing board or vacuum... or other "outside interferences") you would not recognize this weakness in her.

Remember that there is a range here. Some nerve problems are worse than others. One of the worst cases I’ve seen so far was a 12 week old german shepherd pup. I went to her home, crouched down and turned sideways to meet her (crouching and turning sideways is, in canine language a universal signal of friendliness). The pup raised her hackles, growled, barked and backed up, releasing a huge trail of urine as she escaped. She stayed about twenty feet from me for a full twenty five minutes before she was willing to approach me. (I completely ignored her). Recovery time is always important. When a pup skitters away from you or an object, take note of the amount of time it takes for the pup to recover and decide to approach and investigate. Some pups will startle at an unfamiliar object, but almost immediately regroup and check it out. I would worry a lot less about these pups... but 25 minutes is a very long recovery time. Fortunately, the owners of the german shepherd puppy did not breed her.
Mitzy's Mom


PAWesome
PAWesome
06/02/2007 7:40 AM  

This is a fascinating topic to me as well.  Mayfly is one of those pups that will startle at something but she does immediately regroup and investigate.  Also, even though I never planned to breed anyway, she probably would not be a good dog to breed because of her skittishness...even though everything else about her (health, family health, etc.) is good.

I guess one reason it fascinates me, too, is that as a horse person I've always noticed the differences is personalities of horses.  Some are born spooky...no abuse, no bad eyesight, no bad experience...just born spooky.  All you can do is take that into consideration when training and adapt accordingly.  Same with the very dominant or agressive ones.

And that is what some people (owners and trainers) fail to understand...not all horses  can be trained or handled the same.  I would guess dogs are the same.


Mary Beth, mom to the Lollipop Kids

Georgia Foster Mom, New Rattitude
Check out our ratties at www.newrattitude.org
grammiej


Ratterific
Ratterific
06/02/2007 2:50 PM  

I learn so much from all of you. Thanks for your comments. My girls are very skittish around men and kids. They are not comfortable with either of them. We keep them crated when my grandsons visit. And they are getting used to my family members little by little. They are very protective of my daughter and I.

Susan


Terrier Terror
Terrier Terror
06/03/2007 2:47 AM  
Temperment is one of the things that I am breeding for too. It is so very important to me to have Ratties that are comfortable in almost all situations. We try to make sure that all our pups are very well socialized too. I have my kids and grandkids around all the time and I want dogs that are reasonably kid safe and stable! I know that most little kids are mean without thinking about it so we watch them closely with the dogs, but I would not want to have to watch the dogs too, if I had any that freaked easily. Structutre is important too, you don't want dogs that have medical problems or ones that are going to have their hips or knees go out. But temperment is most important.

We got a really good bunch right now. Very forgiving of my younger grandkids mistakes and freindly with most any body they meet. The only thing that scares them is one of my cats who has it in for dogs. Mostly they will avoid her unless they are feeling squirlly and will bark at her and run away fast. They play with the other large cats without problems.

ANYTHING WORTH DOING IS WORTH OVERDOING Mom of eight, only three left at home! Pack leader to ten ratties: Maggie, Mysty, Berry, Simon, Ceecee and five puppies, Star,Sari, Bluebelle, Double stuf,and Snortie. As well as Ginger the Border Collie and a herd of turkeys!
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