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Rat-Terrier.com
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kristen

Rat Royalty

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| 06/01/2008 2:57 PM |
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Hello! I was looking for a good quality pet food for my new puppy I am getting on Saturday, and the petsore reccommended Avoderm Chicken meal and Brown rice formula for puppies. I was wondering if anybody else has used/heard of it? All thre reviews online look good, but I just everyone elses opinion as well. |
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Emg

 Terrier Terror

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| 06/01/2008 3:09 PM |
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The only thing I would worry about is the Avocado meal in it. The Avocado stem, skin, leaves and pit are poisoness (although the toxic dose is unknown) so the oil isn't really something to worry about....but what concerns me is that I don't really know what part of the avocado is in the 'meal', is it just the fruit's flesh, or is it also the pit and skin?
Also, it only has one meat source, chicken meal. |
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Sara, Sam's mommy |
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Mitzy's Mom

 PAWesome

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| 06/01/2008 3:45 PM |
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I'd say it was a mid grade quality food. Sort of grain heavy and I'm not too sure about the avocado meal either. Their whole selling point is your dog having a great skin and coat which is nice but there's more to the dog than that....know what I mean? And I don't like the imphasis on one ingredient....other wise it looks like a good food. It does have herring meal in it, too, for meat but the ingredient is way down the list.
http://www.breeders-choice.com/dog_products/avodermdog_puppy.htm
Select Ingredients
Chicken Meal, Ground Whole Brown Rice, Ground Whole Rice, Rice Bran, Chicken Fat (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Ascorbic Acid), Oat Bran, Avocado Meal, Flax Seed, Dried Alfalfa Meal, Avocado Oil, Herring Meal, Lecithin, Natural Flavor, Rosemary Extract, Sage Extract, Bromelain, Papain, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus Oryzae Fermentation Product, Monosodium Phosphate, Choline Chloride, Ferrous Sulfate, DL-Alpha Tocopherol Acetate (Source of Vitamin E), Zinc Oxide, Sodium Selenite, Manganous Oxide, Riboflavin Supplement (Source of Vitamin B Complex), Copper Sulfate, Zinc Methionine, Iron Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Cobalt Proteinate, Niacin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Source of Vitamin B6), Calcium Iodate, Thiamine Mononitrate (Source of Vitamin B1), Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement.
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Mary Beth, mom to the Lollipop Kids
Georgia Foster Mom, New Rattitude at www.newrattitude.org Pics of my current fosters: http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/caradoc http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/willow http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/fiona
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kristen

Rat Royalty

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| 06/01/2008 4:21 PM |
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| hmm ok thanks for the input! Who knew food selection was so complicated?? haha. I'll tell you guys how the first bag of food goes! |
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Emg

 Terrier Terror

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| 06/01/2008 4:23 PM |
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I sent them a contact form asking them about the avocado meal...hope I get an answer. Sometimes I never get a response from dog food companies, and if I do, it takes weeks and they give me very little information. But I doubt that they would bother to peel the fruit and remove the pit and stems. And even if they did, there's a good chance some of the poisonous parts might get in anyway while the food is being rendered. |
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Sara, Sam's mommy |
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farmergurlyo

 Ratastic

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| 06/01/2008 5:03 PM |
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yea! only 6 more days!!! congratulations! as far as food goes, i don't know about avoderm, but i'm planning on feeding canidae (you can get it at mud dogs in the village) they also sell other good quality foods like evo and stuff... |
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Ashley~ mommy to rattie kairi |
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kristen

Rat Royalty

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| 06/01/2008 5:08 PM |
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| yeah that's where I got this stuff, I went to Mudbay yesterday in U-Vill, this was what they recommended.. hmm. I don't see how they could put food that's poisonous to dogs in their food and get away with it! Maybe I'll ask Mudbay about it. |
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Emg

 Terrier Terror

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| 06/01/2008 5:14 PM |
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They put euthanized cats and dogs in some foods and get away with it.
There are MANY poisonous products that can be found in some dog foods that have been banned from the human food chain, like BHA and BHT. One ingredient found in lower dog foods, 'cellulose', usually contains processed, powdered wood. You can thank the AAFCO for allowing this to go on.
Here's a page on dogfoodproject.com that has a list of ingredients to avoid either because they are dangerous or because they are useless:
www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php |
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Sara, Sam's mommy |
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farmergurlyo

 Ratastic

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| 06/01/2008 5:18 PM |
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mud BAY! lol practically the same thing |
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Ashley~ mommy to rattie kairi |
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Mitzy's Mom

 PAWesome

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| 06/01/2008 5:52 PM |
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There are some really awful foods out there and they are some of the most well-known foods. Read the "ingredients to avoid" on the dog food project website and then check out the ingredients in some of these foods. Avoderm is NOT one of these foods....it's not the highest quality food but it doesn't have the preservatives, ground up chicken beaks, feathers, etc., ground up euthanized animals, dyes, etc. in it.
For example, here is the Pedigree Small Dog dry food listed below. It's main ingredient is corn!, followed by ground up "by-product", rice, more corn, bha/bht, bone meal and then 2 sources of wheat! ICK! 
http://www.pedigree.com/01Really%20Good%20Food/default.aspx?attributeName=Format%20Type,primary&attributeValue=Dry%20Food,true
INGREDIENTS
GROUND WHOLE CORN, CHICKEN BY-PRODUCT MEAL, RICE, CORN GLUTEN MEAL, ANIMAL FAT (PRESERVED WITH BHA/BHT), MEAT AND BONE MEAL, WHEAT MILL RUN, NATURAL FLAVOR, WHEAT FLOUR, POTASSIUM CHLORIDE, SALT, CARAMEL COLOR, VEGETABLE OIL (SOURCE OF LINOLEIC ACID), VITAMINS (CHOLINE CHLORIDE, dl-ALPHA TOCOPHEROL ACETATE [SOURCE OF VITAMIN E], L-ASCORBYL-2-POLYPHOSPHATE [SOURCE OF VITAMIN C†], VITAMIN A SUPPLEMENT, THIAMINE MONONITRATE [VITAMIN B1], BIOTIN, d-CALCIUM PANTOTHENATE, RIBOFLAVIN SUPPLEMENT [VITAMIN B2], VITAMIN D3 SUPPLEMENT, VITAMIN B12 SUPPLEMENT), MINERALS (ZINC SULFATE, ZINC PROTEINATE, COPPER SULFATE, COPPER PROTEINATE, MANGANESE PROTEINATE, POTASSIUM IODIDE), IRON OXIDE, ADDED FD&C AND LAKE COLORS (YELLOW 6, YELLOW 5, BLUE 2, RED 40). |
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Mary Beth, mom to the Lollipop Kids
Georgia Foster Mom, New Rattitude at www.newrattitude.org Pics of my current fosters: http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/caradoc http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/willow http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/fiona
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kristen

Rat Royalty

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| 06/01/2008 6:11 PM |
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yeah I know there are a lot of nasty foods out there, that's why I went to a 'natural' pet store to buy the food, but apparently even some foods there aren't the best! I just want my pup to have a healthy diet! I really appreciate all the input  |
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Yukon Cornelius

 Terrier Terror

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| 06/01/2008 7:39 PM |
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I found the following while researching the avocado issue.

Furkitties everywhere! | Main | What, exactly, IS in that "pet" food?
A few weeks back , I received an email alert from the ASPCA about "avocados". Here is what it said:
"Thinking of giving Polly a little something extra with her cracker? While there are a few foods that both humans and pets can enjoy, there are others that, while perfectly safe and healthy for people, can be dangerous to our animal companions. "Avocado leaves, fruit, seeds and bark contain a toxic principle known as persin," says Dana Farbman, CVT, of the ASPCA Animal Poison Control Center (APCC). "The Guatemalan variety, which is the most common variety found in stores, appears to be the most problematic."
"The primary concern in dogs is with gastrointestinal irritation, including vomiting and diarrhea. Typically, these effects are seen in dogs who have scavenged on significant quantities of fruit or branches. Birds and rodents appear to be particularly sensitive to avocado, and ingestion can result in respiratory distress, congestion, fluid accumulation around the heart and even death. For additional information, please visit ASPCA online. "
There is one key phrase in the ASPCA's assessment of the avocado and that was "significant quantities".
I was a bit perplexed by this since there is a very well known dog food that uses avocados in their products and I happen to use that product from time to time. So, if I used this product everyday, would that be considered a "significant" quantity - something like slowly poisioning the furkids? So, I sent the company an email.
Here is the reply from the company - Where you see "X" I have removed any identification of the company and the brand:
"Dear Ms. Bounds:"
"We're well aware of the ASPCA position on avocados and we understand your
concern. Here is some information we hope will be helpful and reassuring.
FROM: XX VICE-PRESIDENT
The XXXXXXXX line has been manufacturered by XXXXXXXXXX for over 25
years.
XXXXXXXXX contains the "oil" and the "meat" of the avocado. This product is
sold nationally and in 20 countries around the world. The toxins are
primarily in the leaves. We use only the flesh of the Avocado - no leaves
or pits/seeds.
Each XXXXXXXXXX formula includes Avocado oil. The avocado oil is full of
vitamins A, C, D, E and are B6. Avocados are also rich in potassium, niacin,
essential fatty acids and many other nutrients essential to good skin and
coat health. Avocados have zero cholesterol, very little sodium, and are
high in monounsaturated fats, the same kind found in olive oil. Ounce per
ounce, the avocado is simply one of the most nutritious fruits there is.
The process of removing the oil from the avocado is a lengthy process.
Briefly, this process begins by washing the ripened fruit, removing any dirt
or unwanted substances that may have collected on the skin. The fruit is
then cut in half and the pit is removed. The oil is separated through
mechanical extraction, using a centrifuge that rotates at 400 cycles per
second. This process separates the pulp and skin, leaving a golden green
liquid full of natural goodness.
FROM THE CALIFORNIA AVOCADO COMMISSION:
In spite of the very occasional and almost always indirect reports of
avocado toxicity to dogs and cats there is a huge body of evidence to the
contrary.
As you point out there are several pet food formulations containing avocado
on the market and these are being fed to hundreds of thousands of dogs every
day world-wide with no reported problems. Also, in California there are
around 7,000 family farmers who grow avocados and almost every one has dogs
that actively seek out fruit that has fallen from the trees to snack on.
The happy, well-filled out and shiny-coated orchard dog is a familiar sight
to anyone in this industry and we have NEVER had a report of a family
orchard dog getting sick from eating avocados and they eat LOTS AND LOTS
of them. Also, the US Forest Service and UC Santa Barbara are about to
publish a paper on the importance of avocado orchards in California to
sustaining carnivore populations (bears, coyotes, mountain lions, foxes and
small cats) during drought conditions. All of these animals are known to
eat the protein and nutrient rich fruit that has fallen from trees. Some
bears have learned to pick the fruit, lay it on the orchard floor and come
back to eat the fruit when it ripens!"
So, there you have it.
My Maria loves raw avocados and while I don't give her a lot, since she is only 10 pounds, I have given her pretty fair sized pieces thinking that it is good for her coat. I have never seen a reaction but, again, I am not giving her an entire avocado!
I was more than a bit concerned so I asked the Vet. It was confirmed that "yes", avocados are toxic - leaves, fruit and the pit.
The Manufacturer is correct in one aspect, they have been making the product for years. So, that has me wondering - are we slowly poisoning our furkids, or is there so little quantity of the avocado in the dog food preparation that it has never been a concern, or, does the actual manufacturing process "kill" any toxic ingredient that is present?
I am going to err on the side of caution.
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We'll have to outwit the fiend with our superior intelligence.
http://lordmarley08.googlepages.com/home
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Emg

 Terrier Terror

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| 06/01/2008 7:59 PM |
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I don't think the flesh is poisonous...and the company only mentioned the ingredients in Avocado oil, not the the ingredients in avocado meal. Also, animals in the wild like bears, coyotes, foxes, ect. probably don't eat the pit and leaves, which are more than likely manufactored with the flesh. If you want a shiny-coated dog, I'd stick with fish oils. |
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Sara, Sam's mommy |
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Yukon Cornelius

 Terrier Terror

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| 06/01/2008 8:18 PM |
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AvoDerm Natural and Avocado Safety
You can feel quite confident in AvoDerm Natural pet products safety and nutritional value. In the 25 years since Breeder’s Choice first introduced this product line, millions of dogs and cats worldwide have consumed AvoDerm products with no negative reactions from avocado oil or meal. The avocado is full of vitamins A, C, D, E, and B6. Also, avocados are rich in potassium, niacin, essential fatty acids and many other nutrients for excellent skin and coat condition. AvoDerm Natural pet products use only carefully selected suppliers of avocado meal and avocado oil. Years of problem-free consumption of these products indicate that AvoDerm products are not only safe for dogs and cats, but also provide vital nutrients for them.
Concern has been expressed by the ASPCA about the consumption of the leaves, fruit, bark, and stems from the avocado tree, with the exception of the avocado fruit which is used for the oil and meal; none of these parts are factors in any of the AvoDerm Natural pet products formulations.
Dr. Art Craigmill, UC Davis, Professor and Extension Specialist in Environmental Toxicology has said that his studies and other research in the United States and Australia have shown that the problem of toxicity is in the leaves and the pit of the Guatemalan variety; the avocado meat of the fruit and oils have not been shown to be toxic. AvoDerm Natural pet products do not utilize any Guatemalan variety avocados, nor do we use any leaves or pits of any variety of avocados for our avocado meal and oil.
The avocado meal and oil used in the AvoDerm Natural pet products comes from the meat of the fruit and does not contain leaves, bark, skin or pit of the fruit. The oil is extracted from ripened fruit in which the meat pulp has been separated from the skin and the pit. Through a mechanical separation process the oil is extracted and filtered and placed into sealed containers. The pulp of the fruit is dried, ground, and screened before being placed into its final packaging and than shipped to our facility.
Dr. Guy Whitney, Director of Industry Affairs and Research of the California Avocado Commission, has stated: “...in California there are around 7,000 family farmers who grow avocados and almost every one has dogs that actively seek out fruit that has fallen from the trees to snack on. The happy, well-filled out and shiny-coated orchard dog is a familiar sight to anyone in this industry and we have NEVER had a report of a family orchard dog getting sick from eating avocados. Also, the US Forest Service and UC Santa Barbara are about to publish a paper on the importance of avocado orchards in California to sustaining carnivore populations (bears, coyotes, mountain lions, foxes and small cats) during drought conditions. All of these animals are known to eat the protein and nutrient rich fruit that has fallen from the trees. Now birds are a different creature and it IS known that avocados are toxic to birds. Avocado leaves are known to be toxic to horses. Avocado seeds (pits) are NOT edible and are toxic to animals.”
Our AvoDerm Natural formulas put dogs and cats on the right nutritional track with healthy skin and coat on the outside and the right nutrients to keep them healthy on the inside as well. |
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We'll have to outwit the fiend with our superior intelligence.
http://lordmarley08.googlepages.com/home
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kristen

Rat Royalty

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| 06/01/2008 10:20 PM |
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| now I'm even more confused!! haha, so much contradiction! |
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Erinj09

 Ratastic

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| 06/02/2008 2:59 AM |
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| im sure that youll find the best decision for you and olive! but there are a lot of foods out there where if you asked people on here, there would be little to no people saying they dont like it. good luck keep us posten and updated when you get olive! |
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Proud owner of a rat terrier resides here. Kahlua is my new puppy,Olive is my kitty-kat, Oh and 3 fish (Bonnie, Indiana Jones, and Rafiki) lol I love my animals hehe
"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take...but by the moments that take our breath away" |
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swatson6

 Attention Starved

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| 06/02/2008 7:47 AM |
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| I just want to add that if you check, Avoderm ranks as high a quality as foods like Natural Balance and Canidae. If you look at the ingredients, rice is actually the highest ingredient even though they break it down so it does not have to be listed as that. There isn't as much meat in it as I personally like, but it is still a good quality food. I think the Avocado oil turns some people off, but it is a good source of fats and vitamins. So as far quality-wise, I would rank it right up there with many of the foods others feed here and that are classified as a "high-quality" foods. |
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Sarah Mom to Jack, Jeter and foster mom to Teagan
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Cocoabean

 Rat Royalty

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| 06/02/2008 12:37 PM |
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Posted By kristen on 06/01/2008 5:08 PM
yeah that's where I got this stuff, I went to Mudbay yesterday in U-Vill, this was what they recommended.. hmm. I don't see how they could put food that's poisonous to dogs in their food and get away with it! Maybe I'll ask Mudbay about it.
Do you remember the huge pet food recall in March 2007 (the biggest pet food recall in US history)? It turned out that melamine in pet food caused many, many pets to get sick and die. It's possible that the melamine was put in there intentionally by Chinese manufacturerers to fake higher protein levels. I don't think we know if this is true or not, but it's theory that's been tossed around by the FDA.
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Sara Jo Mom to Henry |
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Emg

 Terrier Terror

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| 06/02/2008 6:45 PM |
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Just got a response back from them....that was quick!
It said:
Dear Sara:
We only use fruit that is dried and ground into a meal and press the
fruit for the oil. It is not skin, pit, leaves, bark etc.
Thank you for asking your question.
Below is a more detailed response our company has put together since the
concerns and questions have been raised....
I also got the same shpeel that Yukon posted.
I'm thinking of asking them for a little more info about how they manufactor their avocados....but this email (and the fact that I got a quick response) has given me more faith this Avoderm. It still has more grain in it than I'd like to see though.
I suppose it's okay, if dogs have been eating it for so long and haven't shown any ill effects that have been directly linked to this food...yet...what I'd really like to see is a study done on this by an independent group before I'm absolutely sure. |
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Sara, Sam's mommy |
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kristen

Rat Royalty

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| 06/03/2008 6:01 PM |
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wow well thanks for emailing them! I will stick with this bag of food, and see how it goes.. I guess it would be better to just switch to a food that doesn't have as much controversy behind it, but it's gotten such great reviews from customers, and it has to be a lot better than the nasty grocery brands.. so I'll let you all know if she likes it I can't believe I'm going to have her on Saturday!! I don't know what to do with myself in the meantime haha! |
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kristen

Rat Royalty

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| 06/03/2008 6:01 PM |
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wow well thanks for emailing them! I will stick with this bag of food, and see how it goes.. I guess it would be better to just switch to a food that doesn't have as much controversy behind it, but it's gotten such great reviews from customers, and it has to be a lot better than the nasty grocery brands.. so I'll let you all know if she likes it I can't believe I'm going to have her on Saturday!! I don't know what to do with myself in the meantime haha! |
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