bluedog

 Rat Royalty

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| 05/13/2008 4:30 PM |
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My good friend started feeding raw 2 months ago and loves it. I hear the poop scooping is much better. I have been educating myself about it. My first goal was to get my lab (of a few months) off of beneful and onto a good kibble. Raw sounds like it might be cost prohibitive so I was hoping I might be able to do 1/2 kibble and 1/2 raw. Is this worth it?
How much do you feed?
How does price compare to quality kibble?
How did your dog transition (stools, etc)?
How convienent is it?
Do you buy locally or online / in bulk?
Why do you feed raw?
I am looking for any and all information. We are almost transitioned off of beneful so I wonder if I can start introducing raw now or do I need to wait longer?
Thanks!! |
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Christine Mom to Michael & Charlotte Moose (lab), Paisley (rattie), Clark & Lois (tolerant kitties) |
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gwacie

 Rat-A-Tat-Tat

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| 05/13/2008 5:07 PM |
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Yes, it's worth it IMO. Think about feeding yourself or your kid out of one bag for every single day of your life - how could you possibly get the best nutrition without some fresh ingredients? So a blend of a good kibble and good raw diet is great and many folks choose this option. I started feeding raw many years ago, before they were commercially available, so most of what we do we do ourselves, but now you can buy prefab raw from various sources, all made into patties which makes it very easy. No, it's not cheap. BUT I seldom if ever have significant vet issues or bills - my dogs are super healthy.
IN answer to your questions:
1) how much depends on each dog - I have a 21lb RT 4 year old that gets just a little more than my 1yo RT 9lb boy. Both are active but the 21lb boy tends to be "thick" and needs less food (he disagrees).
2) Raw diet is not cheap - home made raw even bought cheaply in bulk is going to run at least as much as a really good kibble in my experience.
3) I've never had a really tough transition with a dog for this, esp if I transition with their kibble in the mix
4) If you buy the prefab patties it's pretty easy. If you make your own it is not convenient, no way around that.
5) I buy locally in bulk both prefab and 40lb boxes of parts.
6) It started because I had a dog that had dietary issues (Zippi) who was unable to tolerate kibble and couldn't gain weight. I was researching dog food, found out what was IN most kibble (esp back then when the good ones were rare), started to learn of raw and home cooked and decided to try it. Zip's health turned around, as has every single dog we've fed this way. It's fixed many allergy issues, coat issues, smell issues (stink), their muscle tone is amazing, and overall I've been continually impressed at how healthy a balanced raw diet is for my dogs. I've fed this way for around 10 years now and will never look back. |
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gwacie (Bethany) http://www.myadams.net/dogs/ |
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2ndhandrats

 Rattie

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| 05/13/2008 6:49 PM |
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We switched to raw about 4 years ago and have never looked back. YES it is worth it...though I'm not sure what you mean by "worth it." To me it is no more trouble or expense than feeding good kibble, but the benefits from feeding raw far outweigh any inconvenience you might be worried about. If you decide to do half kibble and half raw, just be sure to alternate meals of each...don't mix kibble and raw in the same meal.
You can find formulas to use as a starting place, as far as how much to feed. I don't remember right off hand. You'll have to adjust for your individual dogs based on their metabolism, activity level etc. Weigh them on a weekly basis and make minor adjustments until they are maintaining their correct weight.
If you are resourceful, and can buy in bulk quantities, feeding raw is not expensive at all. Invest in a freezer that you can use just for dog food. When something is on sale, buy it all and freeze it. We feed primarily chicken and venison as staples. The chicken we buy on sale at local stores...usually whole fryers or leg quarters or wings. Walmart frequently has leg quarters in 10 lb. bags for 38¢/lb...there is a LOT of meat on a leg quarter. The venison we get FREE from a guy that processes deer meat for hunters during hunting season. My husband gets enough meat from his "scraps" to last us all year long, feeding it about 3 times a week. The same guy also does some beef, so we get beef scraps as well. Make friends with a butcher...it's amazing what they throw away.
I feed raw for a lot of reasons. I feed it for my peace of mind...at least I am not at the mercy of corporate morality (HA!) when it comes to knowing exactly what my dogs are eating. I feed it for their healthy bodies, their pearly whites, their beautiful coats. I also feed it because they LOVE it. You should see the smiles and wiggles when it's dinner time at our house. No finicky eaters here!
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Susan B GAP Coordinator Ratbone Rescues |
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gwacie

 Rat-A-Tat-Tat

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| 05/13/2008 7:16 PM |
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| Lucky Susan can feed Venison! I've tried that repeatedly and 2 of my dogs just ROLL in it every darned time. It's weird. |
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gwacie (Bethany) http://www.myadams.net/dogs/ |
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bluedog

 Rat Royalty

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| 05/13/2008 8:06 PM |
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| By "worth it" I meant - if I can only afford to feed 1/2 raw - is that worth it or should I only do it if I can do all raw. I would have to do the pre-packaged raw patties, etc. My friend has 2 dogs about the same size/activ and spends $100/month thru darwinspets.com. I think I would be looking at about the same for an all raw diet. I don't know yet how long my bag of kibble will last - $25 for 12 lbs. My dogs are 50 lbs and 15 lbs. They are both very active (ie structured exercise plus their own antics). I want to do the absolute best I can for them within my limited budget. |
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Christine Mom to Michael & Charlotte Moose (lab), Paisley (rattie), Clark & Lois (tolerant kitties) |
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rattytatty

 Training Moderator

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| 05/13/2008 8:13 PM |
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I feed raw... but I don't make it as some do. I purchase it from Nature's Variety... comes in a "sleeve" of 12 patties. I feed my 9-lb rat terrier 1/2 of a patty once a day (he's more active and younger than my other three dogs)... and I feed the other three dogs 1/3 of a patty. I rotate among chicken, venison and beef. I mix 1 teaspoon of coconut oil and 1 teaspoon of Kronch's salmon oil in each bowl. I feed only once a day, but each dog gets a homemade dehydrated sweet potato treat each morning and sometimes a bully stick (Nature's Variety brand).
I have a 12-year old doxie, an 8-year old doxie, an 8-year old "pound puppy" mix, and my rat terrier who is a few months past two years of age.
I LOVE feeding them the raw and I know they are getting a goodd quality food. My dogs (knock on wood) have no health issues... and they poop VERY LITTLE which is a wonderful 'by product' of feeding raw. The reason being that their body absorbs 99% of what they eat... there is no waste.
I've been feeding raw for 1-1/2 years...
I HIGHLY recommend it, but as you commented on... it's not cheap.
Edited to add: I have on occasion supplemented the raw with Nature's Variety kibble (usually salmon and brown rice). This would help with the cost, for sure... if you wanted to do that. |
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 ~Nora~ Mom to Hoss, Lil'Bit, Buster & Bailey, CGC, NA, NAJ |
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2ndhandrats

 Rattie

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| 05/13/2008 8:32 PM |
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Posted By gwacie on 05/13/2008 7:16 PM
Lucky Susan can feed Venison! I've tried that repeatedly and 2 of my dogs just ROLL in it every darned time. It's weird.
That's too funny! Have you tried lightly searing the outside? That's what I had to do for one of mine to convince him that raw liver was edible. After a couple of times I didn't need to do it anymore.
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Susan B GAP Coordinator Ratbone Rescues |
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2ndhandrats

 Rattie

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| 05/13/2008 8:45 PM |
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Posted By bluedog on 05/13/2008 8:06 PM
By "worth it" I meant - if I can only afford to feed 1/2 raw - is that worth it or should I only do it if I can do all raw. I would have to do the pre-packaged raw patties, etc. My friend has 2 dogs about the same size/activ and spends $100/month thru darwinspets.com. I think I would be looking at about the same for an all raw diet. I don't know yet how long my bag of kibble will last - $25 for 12 lbs. My dogs are 50 lbs and 15 lbs. They are both very active (ie structured exercise plus their own antics). I want to do the absolute best I can for them within my limited budget.
Oh okay...Yep, I think it's still worth it. Give it a try and see if you don't notice a difference. I don't know much about the pre-packaged patties...are they 100% meat, or are they a blend with organs, veggies etc.? I know they would be way too expensive for me because I'd have to have them shipped.
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Susan B GAP Coordinator Ratbone Rescues |
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rattytatty

 Training Moderator

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| 05/13/2008 8:52 PM |
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I have a friend who is a distributor for Nature's Variety, so I don't pay any shipping. She's studied canine nutrition extensively.. taken courses and is very knowledgeable. So I trust her judgment and she's the one who enlightened me about feeding raw. The patties are 95% meat and 5% veggies and they have blueberries mixed in. |
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 ~Nora~ Mom to Hoss, Lil'Bit, Buster & Bailey, CGC, NA, NAJ |
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rattytatty

 Training Moderator

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| 05/13/2008 8:53 PM |
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Here's a link to the Nature's Variety website if you are interested. You can read what they say about the raw food... http://www.naturesvariety.com/content.lasso?r=2057915&page=1136 |
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 ~Nora~ Mom to Hoss, Lil'Bit, Buster & Bailey, CGC, NA, NAJ |
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2ndhandrats

 Rattie

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| 05/13/2008 9:11 PM |
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Thanks! It does sound very good. I did a search and found a retailer about 40 miles from me so I will definitely check it out next time I'm near there. |
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Susan B GAP Coordinator Ratbone Rescues |
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gwacie

 Rat-A-Tat-Tat

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| 05/13/2008 9:29 PM |
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| I have one who can no longer tolerate bone very well (Roxy, she's 11, started causing her bowel irritation in just the past year) so I have her on mainly the Nature's Variety patties since she otherwise would lack cal/mag/phos from no bone. Plus they are great if we travel and need someone to feed that isn't raw savvy - much easier on them!! |
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gwacie (Bethany) http://www.myadams.net/dogs/ |
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rattytatty

 Training Moderator

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| 05/13/2008 9:50 PM |
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| The patties also have crushed bone in them... GOOD source of calcium. |
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 ~Nora~ Mom to Hoss, Lil'Bit, Buster & Bailey, CGC, NA, NAJ |
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gwacie

 Rat-A-Tat-Tat

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| 05/13/2008 9:57 PM |
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| Yes..that's why Roxy gets them... |
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gwacie (Bethany) http://www.myadams.net/dogs/ |
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bluedog

 Rat Royalty

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| 05/13/2008 11:28 PM |
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Can you tell me how this one compares to something like Nature's Variety (I can pick up NV locally)?
I am still learning what I am looking for. My lab is a little sensitive overall, is there anything I should avoid?
http://www.darwinspet.com/dogs.html |
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Christine Mom to Michael & Charlotte Moose (lab), Paisley (rattie), Clark & Lois (tolerant kitties) |
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Duke Lank

Ratterific

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| 05/14/2008 9:17 AM |
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Please help me to understand. Are you talking about raw meat? I have never heard of this.
Duke's mom |
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gwacie

 Rat-A-Tat-Tat

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| 05/14/2008 9:22 AM |
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Yes Duke's mom. Here are some informational links that might help you: http://www.rawlearning.com/ http://www.dianeschuller.com/dogs_on_raw_diet.html http://www.howtodothings.com/pets-animals/how-to-try-a-raw-food-diet-for-dogs |
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gwacie (Bethany) http://www.myadams.net/dogs/ |
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buttonbutt

 Firehouse Big Dog

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rebelredneck71

 Rat Royalty

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| 05/14/2008 11:28 AM |
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| ok ya'll convinced me I'm going to look into raw feeding. My dogs get feed kibble and some table scraps. and some hambones or steak bones to gnaw on. |
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Life is like a jar of Jalapenos what do you today could burn your butt tomorrow.
A.D. daddy to 3 skin kiddos, and a dad to 3 fur kiddos |
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Emg

 Terrier Terror

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| 05/16/2008 3:54 PM |
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I've also been thinking about raw food...we have a dog food company up here in CT that sells raw food called "Oma's Pride". The food is USDA inspected and approved, but otherwise I don't think it's anymore special than food at the local supermarket. Probably would be cheaper to buy it at Walmart of Sam's Club, but... I suppose expenses depend on were you get the food... Here's the site for that food if you're interested: www.omaspride.com/ I also have a question for everyone...don't you have to add supplements like fresh veggies and such? I've heard you can't feed JUST meat. If so, what kinds of supplements? |
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Sara, Sam's mommy |
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yogidiogi

 Ratterific

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| 05/16/2008 5:11 PM |
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I switched Yogi to raw about 5 months a go. We use Columbia River Naturals which is a local to Oregon premade raw food supplier and rotate between chicken, turkey, tripe and duck. It has ground up bone in it and I buy the one with veggies already mixed in. He loves it and it's the only thing that's made him lose weight! He's down two lbs to a healthy 21.5. He gets 8 oz a day split into two meals with salmon oil mixed in. We just moved and the new vet is definitely more into traditional dry food and kept pushing Science Diet. A lot of vets are like this and do not like the raw diet, but it was a vet who specializes in nutrition that got us on raw in the first place. |
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bluedog

 Rat Royalty

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| 05/16/2008 6:27 PM |
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Most commercially sold raw food is already balanced (usually 70 meat / 30 veg) - nutrients - meat to vegies so you don't need to add anything unless you wish to. I think you can make your own raw food - people here do it - for me it is more of a convenience thing - I would have a hard time doing that (time factor). What I learned today at our wonderful local pet store (not a commercial chain) is that some raw foods have a little bit of everything, some have one meat ingredient (ie for more allergy prone dogs), some have organic vegies. All have human grade food. Some are made in a dog food / meat plant, some are made in a human food processing plant and therefore have to meet higher standards in processing. The one I chose is NW Naturals, made locally, comes in 1 lb blocks that break off into 4 oz pieces. If I buy in bulk it ends up being about $2/lb for turkey or chicken, bison and beef are a little more. They gave me 4 lbs for free to try and I have to figure out how to fit it in bulk into my freezer. Right now I am still thinking 1/2 raw and 1/2 kibble diet because I don't know if I can afford all raw. The pet store specialist said that in a lot of cases, dogs conditions have been reversed by eating raw (ie irritable bowel, skin problems, etc). He said that dogs are made to digest the bacterias that we are not. I am not an expert by any means - this discussion has been very informative and I really appreciate you all passing on your experience. |
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Christine Mom to Michael & Charlotte Moose (lab), Paisley (rattie), Clark & Lois (tolerant kitties) |
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bluedog

 Rat Royalty

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| 05/16/2008 6:36 PM |
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Here is the guy I am working with at the pet store, he has been great. Interesting general info.
westernpetsupplyinc.com/doug.html |
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Christine Mom to Michael & Charlotte Moose (lab), Paisley (rattie), Clark & Lois (tolerant kitties) |
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