Ok, so some of you may remember me talking about the possibility of Toa having Mange.  A few of his littermates had it, but when Toa was tested, it was negative.  It didn’t seem to be bothering him or getting worse, so we did not take him to get a skin scrape done.  (Plus my vet LOOKED at his head and just shrugged her shoulders and told us to keep an eye on it)  Well the past few days, it has gotten MUCH WORSE.  He has been scratching it A LOT and he even has a few scabby areas…poor baby!

SO….since were not happy with our previous vet, we both were looking for other vets to take the pups to.  Michael made an appointment at one (lets call it Dr. A) and I made one at another (Dr. B). 

Dr. A has been around a long time and works out of a TINY office in a small town (not a BAD thing, just made me worry that he may be “stuck in a rut” of “old school” treatments, but I remained open!!)

Dr. B opened his own practice in 1992 and has grown tremendously and now has many employees a BEAUTIFUL new building, a GREAT website, and grooming and boarding facility. (I was optimistic about these things, especially after reading their “philosophy” on their website!)

His appointment with Dr. A was at noon and by the time I called him to tell him about the appt. I had made with Dr. B at 3:30 he was on his way.  He went ahead and took Toa to Dr. A for the scrape.  It was positive for Demodectic mange.  Dr. A told Michael that this type of mange IS contagious to other dogs (contrary to everything I have read) and he told him that the only real option he sees is the DIP.  He said that the Ivermectin does not treat as well and it may clear up the SKIN but not kill the mites.  Michael went ahead and bought the take-home shampoo/dip (didn’t get it done there) and asked me to call Vet B and ask what their treatment regimen would be.  Dr. B said that they would scrape 2-3 areas (to decide if it was localized or generalized, Dr. A only scraped his head, the OBVIOUS place) The recommended the use of GoodwinOil, an ointment to use 2 x per day on the localized areas and then Ivermectin treatment as well.  Dr. B said that this mange is NOT contagious except from mother to pups which coincided with everything I had read and heard. 

THEN, Michael got home and started researching more on the net, and I did the same at work.  I found sites that say when you use the shampoo/dip you need to wear gloves and a face mask…(why the heck would I want to Shampoo my baby in something THAT TOXIC) Michael found a site where it said that the shampoo/dip shouldn’t be used on puppies either.  GRRRR 

I also pulled up the past conversations I have had on HERE about mange: http://www.rat-terrier.com/Home/tabid/37/forumid/4/postid/221321/view/topic/Default.aspx

And saw that there are AT HOME treatments that we could be using.  I saw something about Seapet oil and also Borax/Peroxide sponge baths. 

I know, I know, I should have done something about this LONG AGO… L  Unfortunately I did not, and now I am faced with a dilemma about treatment.  Most important to ME is that Toa is FEELING COMFORTABLE.  Not that the hair grows back the quickest, but that we choose the most effective treatment possible without possible HARM to my baby!  I think we have decided NOT to use the dip, we are going to take it back in hopes of getting a refund.  We also cancelled the appointment with Dr. B until we have a chance to discuss this tonight and get advice from you guys also. 

Sorry if I am overreacting or making a bigger deal out of this.  I know that demodectic mange isn’t the biggest deal in the world, but I want to make sure I am doing whats best for him, yes im overprotective. 

PLUS I am VENTING TO YOU GUYS as well!  Thanks for listening, and if you made it this far, God Bless you!  LOL….

HELP….SUGGESTIONS….ADVICE….PLEASE???

Mary.. my black doxie (Lil'Bit) has this type of mange... it developed when she was about 3 months old. (she just turned 8 years old in March). It began with loss of fur... not limited to the head area, but all over. Her littermtes also had it.

We had her dipped and it was very very hard on her. Made her sick and lifeless for several days, and it took three times. Maybe because it was so many years ago... but no alternative option was given to me at that time. The dipping procedure DID in fact clear her up... but over the years from time to time she has reoccurences of balding and scratching. Because she has food allergies also, putting her on a raw diet helped considerably, but not totally... with both the mange and the allergies.

All of this to say.... knowing what Lil'Bit went through with the dipping... and what her littermates went through (I work with a lady who has her littermate... she went through the same thing with her puppy)... I would definitely choose an alternate route if it's available to you, simply because I know how sick the dipping makes the dogs. I can only speak from my own personal experience and the experience that Lil'Bit's littermates went through.

This type of mange really is not curable (or at least that's what I was told by my vet)... but the good news is that it is treatable and can be kept under control.

I have been where you "are" and it's worrisome...I'm sorry you're having to deal with this.... *hugs*

Awww Mary!!! Too bad we ALL couldn't be Vets...save alot of pain in the butt dealing with quack-quacks

Demodectic Mange is NOT contagious. It is due to suppressed immune system...weakened. PUPS Usually outgrow it, and some get recurring outbreaks. Yogi had it badly when rescued. They had him on Ivermectin when I got him....and I also put him on high protein, as well as a supplement called Missing Link for Canines.

BTW...Ivermectin is also a heartworm (and ALL parasites) treatment. Kills everything. ...when Yogi was on Ivermectin, he was off all other heartworm preventatives.

Some Vets do use the Mitaban dip...I feel it is too toxic for a small dog. Years ago I had a 2 yr old toy poodle die after being dipped.  (AT the Vet's!!!)

Usually Demodectic doesn't bother the dog that much...wonder if Toa also has an allergy to something else on top of the mange?

Yogi never itched?? Maybe it was just his level of Demodectic? He had it on his legs, throat, arm pits...

I also bathed him with Aveeno Oatmeal, and dipped him in a Borax Powder mixed with Hydro Peroxide Bath.(with some baking soda added)

Helped a lot.

He finished up his Ivermectin round 2 end of March. So far so good...plus he is now around 18 months and that helps.

I still bathe him in Hydro-Perox/Borax but rarely (only when he needs a bath...not very often at all)

Again..most dogs outgrow that mange. ALL dogs have that mite (even humans!). They just don't bother the dog if their immune system is strong...or they are older....

Just my experiences....

see if your feed store has" missing link supplement", or a similar protein/Omega supplement? Be good for Trixie too!

Hugs! Lady Di & Yogi

the borax/peroxide treatment is definitely NOT toxic (the peroxide is diluted ti a 3:1 ratio with water) and works well to stop itching and kill off the mites that lie under the skin.  It's very inexpensive to buy the ingredients (around $5 total cost)  and I believe I would try that first, if it were me.  Can't hurt.

Mary I'm soooo sorry that you have had such a hard time w/ this.  I agree w/ Yogi's mom though Demodex mange is NOT contagious.  It IS however commonly passed from dam to her puppies either while they are in the womb or through her milk.  Now the Cheyletiellosis mite can be passed from affected pup to healthy pup... also to humans.  All threee of my pups have had Demodex mange.  Apollo and Emma's cases were not bad.  They just had one spot.  However Indie's mange was horible.  You could see his skin.  Not to mention he had dry flaky skin as well.  Apollo and Emma used Mitaban but they were not dipped.  We just put it on them twice a day where their mange was.  Now Indie had to be dipped.  Well, more like bathed.  But we used the Peroxide/Borax baths for him.  I know the Mitaban can be rough on the dogs so I didn't want him being fully dipped in it.  It didn't bother him.  We bathed him every Saturday for 6 weeks.  His skin is soft and no longer dry and flaky and his hair has grown back beautifully. 

This is a good site Mary....www.earthclinic.com/Pets/dog_mange_cure.html

I, too, would try the peroxide/borax.  If you use a 16 oz bottle of 3% peroxide,  just fill the empty peroxide bottle with water twice, and stir in borax until it no longer dissolves.  I think it's about 4 or 5 tablespoons.  The borax I've seen at Walmart is in the laundry section,  called 20 Mule Team Borax.  Also, you should wash his bedding and clothing with borax too.  I use borax while doing laundry all the time anyway, and it has a bunch of household uses.  I'd try this before doing the ivermectin treatment,  and, as always, recommend Seapet fish oil.  Also, no vaccines until it clears up.

My min-pin Bruno had mange as a pup and I used whatever treatment they gave me.  It worked.  I don't think it was something real toxic because I don't remember having to use gloves and a mask...think I might remember that!  Bruno was a very sickly pup so it makes sense that he had demodectic..(however you spell it) mange, but he also had sarcoptic mange because we humans caught it from Bruno.  The stuff we had to use was a poison lotion and my Dad had a bad reaction to that, but I don't remember Bruno having a reaction or getting any sicker.  I'm feeling your pain though.  I hope cute little Toa gets better real soon!

Mary, I just looked at the other thread.  That is very much what my min-pins' head looked like, Bruno had these cute little wrinkles and you could really see the skin when he wrinkled his head up.  I kind of remember putting some medicine on with a cottonball just on the really bad spots and I do remember bathing him in Aveeno as well.  Sorry, it's been about 13 years ago.  My memory is the pits.