As some of you know, Toa has some thinning in his blue hair, and it is shorter than the rest.  I have had advice that it COULD be related to allergies. 

We went to Petco today and started looking at grain free foods for the babies cause of Toa's thin blue hair and the possibility of allergies.  This was at the recommendation and advice of many people on this site and I certainly want the best for my babies!!  We did notive that it says"grain free" and "corn free" on the bags of Solid Gold that we are currently using....we did look at Natural Balance allergy free foods and they seemed very appropriate.

 Just FYI: 
Here is what we are feeding them as if yesterday:
Trixi (tri, A type, active, 1 yr 4 months)
she gets a combo of the following two:
http://www.solidgoldhealth.com/products/showproduct.php?id=68&code=140
http://www.solidgoldhealth.com/products/showproduct.php?id=1&code=100

Toa (the blue and white - 5 months) gets this:
http://www.solidgoldhealth.com/products/showproduct.php?id=2&code=110
I did notice that they say "no wheat" and "no corn" on them...but i am not sure thats good enough.

The natural balance ones we looked at were these allergy formulas:
http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/dogformulas/PandD.html
http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/dogformulas/SPFish.html
http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/dogformulas/VenDog.html
One thing I liked about the NB is that it was for the life span, so we could feed them BOTH the same food...also there were three options so we could switch it up for the pups and they could eat the same food.

THEN we found another Solid Gold that we hadnt tried before....
http://www.solidgoldhealth.com/products/showproduct.php?id=81&code=120

this one is high protein, grain free, low carb.  It does say that it is for adults which was a concern, 5 months is probably too young to feee Toa this huh?

To be honest, one of the reasons I like Solid Gold so much is the variety of ingredients, maybe it doesnt matter, but this one has blueberries, cranberries, carrots, broccoli along with the pumpkin meal, fish, beef and potatoes.

ALSO...(this is the last thing, I promise) we found some omega3 and 6 liquid stuff....
http://www.nutri-vet.com/pc-108-7-wild-alaskan-salmon-oil.aspx

does this seem appropriate to be putting on their food>  I hope I understood what it is correctly...lol...im just trying to do whats best!!

Hope I didnt overwhelm you with websites, but I would LOVE an informed opinion about the BEST food for my babies!  Thanks for any advice or suggestions...
oh, one more little question, Will it hurt Trixi to feed her the grain free diet? 
Thanks again especially if you made it through!!

According to the website,the ingredients of the first two solid gold foods for Trixie are as follows:

Bison | Ocean Fish Meal | Millet | Brown Rice | Cracked Pearled Barley | Rice Bran | Canola Oil | Tomato Pomace...

Lamb | Lamb Meal | Brown Rice | Cracked Pearled Barley | Millet | Rice Bran | Oatmeal | Ocean Fish Meal ...

So these DO have grains. Also, the 'millet' source is not specified, and niether is the type of fish in it.

The ingredients for the 'Hundchen Flocken Puppy (Lamb) is:

Lamb | Lamb Meal | Ocean Fish Meal | Brown Rice | Millet | Cracked Pearled Barley | Canola Oil | Tomato Pomace | Rice Bran ...

This also has grain in it. The last product, " Barking at the Moon High Protein, Low Carb Adult Dog Food" is grain free, but again, the type of fish isn't specified. I'm wondering if the ingredients on the website are wrong? It sounds odd that a dog food would say 'grain free' when it does have grain in it. But judging by the web ingredients, It is a pretty good dog food, just it's not grain free. If you're looking for a grain free food, I would suggest switching to natural balance.

 Here's a place were you can find other grain free brands:

http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/dogformulas/VenDog.html

The best thing you can do for most dogs is to give them the same stuff you eat; real meats and all the additives you need to add, and to make it yourself. Realisticly, though, most of us can't afford this. It's hard to find a good grain free dog food, but they ARE our there.

Are you sure that it said "grain free" on the bags of Solid Gold that do actually have grain in them?  I can't find that claim on their website....grain includes rice, millet, barley, oatmeal, etc. 

The grain free food you looked at in Solid Gold has a high protein level which is one reason it may not be good for puppies....from what I'm reading there are mixed opinions about that. For allergies it's best to have 1 carbohydrate source (I use Natural Balance Duck/potato and the potato is the carb source...the duck is the meat source.)

All those extra ingredients like tomato, blueberries, etc. are nice but not really necessary....IMO...you can always add things like that to their diet if you want to.  But if you suspect allergies they just add to the confusion of what the dog is really allergic to. 

I don't know that Toa has allergies...but Mayfly does and this has been my experience.  She's doing fine now on the NB Duck/Potato.

I may be way off-base, but many allergies are WHEAT and CORN related.
Brown rice (if unhulled), barley and brans are usually not bad at all.
The companies should just state "wheat and corn free" instead of GRAIN free.

Tomato pomace is just a roughage.

Go on "Taste of the Wild's" website...they have a dictionary of every ingred and what it's purpose is.
Interesting.

I thought "Ocean fish" was usually cod or similar whitefish...altho Cod is overfished and becoming costly.

Salmon (if wild...equals expensive!!) is good, but I think the oil supplement is better...for both human and dog.

I don't think most humans eat as much protein as a growing pup needs, so feeding what we eat might need extra additives, calcium, so on?

I love to cook so am tempted to start doing it  for Yogi...and actually it's a lot cheaper than buying high quality kibble. But I worry about his tummy and rich food...arrgh! But he does not like kibble...nothing I have tried ... he turns up his nose. The bowl sits untouched. Tried yoghurt, cottage cheese, Missing Link supplement, olive oil, garlic, veggies, so on...he picks stuff out and leaves the kibble. Sigh.

Sheesh! I was used to dogs that snorted any food put in front of them...LOL!

There is a company (Darwin's something) that home delivers all natural "raw" food...REALLY $$$$$$$. (Unless you live in Wash State)

I think with Toa and his skin issues I'd stay with the oil supplements...certainly can't hurt!

ARRGH! Worse than having human babies!!!! Hehheh!

Yogi loved Taste of the Wild...for one day. Sigh.

Same with every brand. Crazy Rattie! He is PICKY picky picky.....UGH!

I gave up...figured he is healthy, young, etc and will not starve himself....unless he's dumb...and he is NOT that!

I say....keep up with Omega Oils in both dog's foods.....!

And many times, pups outgrow allergies and skin issues....like people do.

OOPS!

Didn't read close enough - male 5mos old. Sorry. Still, check with the vet about CDA. Maya has had no other problems resulting from the condition.

Have you found anything that works?  I have a rattie with CDA also and am trying to find things to help. I know nothing can cure it but was hoping something would lessen it.

Mary- in all honesty it sounds like CDA.  If it was allergies it wouldn't just affect the blue areas, it would be all over and you would see more symptoms IMO

I fed Solid Gold Barking at the Moon to Fred for a while. It really stunk though and he didn't like it as much as he likes the Canidae. I had to mix wet in it to get him to eat it. I switched him during the recall because it was grain free. The more I read though i realized you have to be careful with such a high protein diet. If your dogs get plenty of exercise I think that is better for the Solid Gold food.  Just my 2 cents worth.

Have you looked into Wellness Core? http://www.wellnesspetfood.com/dog_wellness_grain_original.html here is the link I also posted it.

CORE™ Original Formula 

Grain-Free, Protein-Focused Nutrition
with Nothing in Excess and Everything in Balance

Wellness has redefined the world of grain-free, high-protein dog food!

CORE Original Formula is a more thoughtful alternative to grain-free diets in the marketplace delivering the meat content consumers are looking for, without the excess fat, calories or minerals their dog doesn’t need.

Supporting dog’s OPTIMAL HEALTH to the CORE…

A grain-free choice for dogs over 1 year who need to maintain optimal daily health

More Meat from Only the Highest Quality, Human-Grade Sources

	80% more meat than traditional dog foods that are formulated with grains, while still controlling mineral and fat levels!
	5 Different Animal Protein Sources - USDA grade, Ethoxyquin-free, Deboned Turkey & Chicken and with high quality (low Ash) Turkey & Chicken Meals and Chicken Liver

Grain-Free and Lower Carbohydrates

	100% Grain Free
	Contains 35% less carbs than traditional diets
	Potatoes and Sweet Potatoes provide energy giving carbs and help keep the kibble firm

Carefully Regulated Mineral Levels to Support Overall Metabolic Function

	We control minerals by using expensive lower ash, higher-quality meats that are carefully chosen and screened for the calcium and phosphorus levels
	High levels of Calcium and Phosphorus interfere with the absorption of trace minerals like Zinc and Iron.  Over time, this can lead to deficiencies and result in poor growth rates, skin lesions, and red blood cell levels and many other health conditions
	We guarantee the maximum levels of calcium and phosphorus on every bag, unlike competitors who either do not list these numbers in the GA or simply put minimum amounts where actual levels can fluctuate above AAFCO maximums

Preventative Health Benefits

	Fish & Flax Omega Blend provide a rich supply of Omega 3 & 6 fatty acids from salmon oil, flax and canola oil. This blend nutritionally supports healthy skin to produce a glossy coat at guaranteed levels on every bag.
	Herbs, Botanicals, Fruits & Greens provide Phyto-Chemicals, Micro-Nutrients and Antioxidants
	Living Food - Our ActiCoat System applies living, heat-sensitive Probiotic micro-organisms after cooking to support digestive health at a guaranteed levels on every bag
	Hip & Joint Health – Glucosamine and Chondroitin to help support long term bone and joint health at guaranteed levels on every bag

Incredible Tasty!

Real meat provides the all natural mouth-watering taste that dogs love

Designed for Everyday Feeding

	Carefully controlling the levels of fat, calories and minerals support the most important part of an animal...the CORE and allow the pet parent to safely feed everyday
	Great for dogs of all lifestyles: for working and highly active dogs or dogs with a more sedentary lifestyle.

Comprehensive “NO” List 

No Meat By-products, No Wheat or Wheat Gluten, No Soy, No Dairy, No Corn, No Artificial Colors, Flavors or Preservatives

Product Ingredients | [script removed]

Deboned Turkey, Deboned Chicken, Turkey Meal, Chicken Meal, Potatoes, Dried Ground Potato, Tomato Pomace, Natural Chicken Flavor, Canola Oil, Chicken Liver, Salmon Oil, Flaxseed, Carrots, Sweet Potatoes, Kale, Broccoli, Spinach, Parsley, Apples, Blueberries, Vitamins & Minerals, Chicory Root Extract, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Chondroitin Sulfate, Dried Lactobacillus plantarum, Enterococcus faecium, Lactobacillus casei, Lactobacillus acidophilus Fermentation Products, Rosemary Extract.

This is a naturally preserved product.

Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein	min.	34%
Crude Fat	min.	14%
Crude Fiber	max.	4%
Moisture	max.	10%
Calcium	max.	2%
Phosphorus	max.	1.4%
Vitamin E	min.	150 IU/kg
Omega 6 Fatty Acids*	min.	3.25%
Omega 3 Fatty Acids*	min.	0.70%
Glucosamin Hydrochloride*	min.	250 mg/kg
Chondroitin Sulfate	min.	200 mg/kg
Total Micro-organisms*	min.	80,000,000 CFU/lb
Crude Protein	min.	5 mg/kg

*Not recognized as an essential nutrient by the AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profiles.

Calories Analysis on an as fed basis
Per kilogram	3600 kcal
Per cup ME	430 cal

Nutritional Adequacy Guarantee

100% Complete and Balanced Nutrition for Your Adult Dog

Wellness CORE Original Formula Adult Dog Food is formulated to meet the nutritional levels established by the AFFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profiles for maintenance

Wellness Core:

...Spinach, Parsley, Apples, Blueberries, Vitamins & Minerals, Chicory Root Extract....

The one thing that concerns me is that they don't list specific vitamins and minerals. (sorry, I've been really picky with dog food lately) It sounds good otherwise, though.

 Also, if you want to go a step further, you could email the companies and ask were they manufacter their food. A lot of the large pet food companies have their food made in giant plants that use very low grade meat (I never believe that 'human grade' stuff) and are the same plants that make low quality dog food. You don't really have too, it's just something I've been interested in lately.

Found this by an owner of a dobe living with CDA.

www.seattle-attorney.com/storm/sup.html

IF you look on the site there is a link to the Vitamins and Minerals I just didn't add that onto the rest of it I guess I should have clarified that, as well as an ingredient index link too. Sorry for the confusion that they didn't list any of those important issures but they do. They also have two flavors aside from the original. But as for the Vitamins and Minerals I Copyed and pasted them for you.  Here they are

ascorbic acid/ascorbyl palmitate: These are both forms of vitamin C. Ascorbyl palmitate is sometimes used in pet foods as part of a natural preservative system, because by itself it is a weak preservative. beta-carotene: Beta-Carotene is an antioxidant. Research has shown that death cell occurs due to the process of oxidation, which is caused by what are called "free radicals". Antioxidants such as beta-carotene neutralize these free radicals and the oxidation process is stopped. Beta-Carotene may also protect against certain cancers, cataracts and heart disease. Carrots and sweet potatoes are good source of beta-carotene. biotin: This B-vitamin is included in most diets for most pets. It is found in the intestinal tract and helps prevent dermatitis. It is essential for normal metabolism of fat and protein. calcium carbonate: Calcium carbonate is a mineral used to provide calcium. calcium iodate/potassium iodate: Two sources of the essential trace mineral iodine, both of which are highly available. calcium pantothenate/pantothenic acid: These two compounds are often used as sources of the B-vitamin pantothenic acid. Calcium pantothenate is usually the preferred form because of its stability. Calcium pantothenate mainly converts fat into energy. choline chloride: A source of the nutrient choline. Choline helps regulate body acid balance and helps the liver clean waste from the body. cobalt carbonate - B12: Cobalt carbonate is a source of cobalt. When consumed the microorganisms in the gastrointestinal tract use the cobalt to make vitamin B12. copper proteinate/copper sulfate: Two compounds which are used as a source of copper. The copper from copper proteinate is highly available while the copper from copper sulfate is less so. A trace mineral found in all body tissues. It works in respiration, synthesis of hemoglobin and production of collagen. It is also an antioxidant and helps prevent oxidation of fatty acids. dicalcium phosphate: A mineral supplement which contains 20% calcium and 18% phosphorus. The phosphorus is essentially 100% available. ferrous (iron) proteinate/ferrous sulfate: Two compounds which are used as a source of iron. The iron from ferrous proteinate is highly available while the iron from ferrous sulfate is less so. It provides oxygen to blood and helps digestion of fatty acids. folic acid: Folic acid is another B-vitamin that is added to most pet foods. It helps form red blood cells and break down amino acids. manganese proteinate/manganese sulfate/manganous oxide: Three compounds which are used as a source of manganese. Manganese proteinate is an antioxidant. It slows down process of aging, activates many enzymes and helps utilize fatty acids. niacin/niacinamide: While the B-vitamin niacin is present at high levels in most grains, unless properly treated, most of the niacin in these ingredients is in a bound form and hence unavailable to the pet. For this reason most manufacturers supplement their diets with one of these two forms of niacin. It helps process protein, carbohydrates, and fat and promotes healthy nervous and brain function. potassium chloride: A potassium supplement typically found in pet food. It contains 40% potassium and 60% chloride. It is important in helping the pet maintain proper acid-base balance. pyridoxine hydrochloride: Pyridoxine hydrochloride is the most common form used when supplementing pet foods with the B-vitamin pyridoxine. Pyridoxine is very important in helping the pet metabolize protein. riboflavin: Riboflavin is used to supply the diet with vitamin-B complex. It helps promote growth and helps assimilation of carbohydrates and amino acids. sodium selenite: A source of the trace mineral selenium. Since animals require only about 0.1 parts per million of selenium, sodium selenite does not contribute any significant amounts of sodium. Helps regulate the body's water balance. thiamin mononitrate/thiamin hydrochloride: These two compounds are both forms of thiamin or vitamin B-1. The mononitrate form is typically more stable than the hydrochloride form. Thiamin is easily destroyed by high heat, so most dry foods and all canned foods should be supplemented with additional thiamin. tricalcium phosphate: A mineral supplement which contains 38% calcium and 20% phosphorus. The phosphorus is essentially 100% available. vitamin A, vitamin D, and vitamin E These supplements are added to almost all pet foods as a vitamin source. Vitamin A is sometimes labeled as vitamin A-acetate, vitamin D as cholecalciferol, and vitamin E as d-alpha-Tocopherol acetate . All of these fat soluble vitamins are required in the diet, although diets containing liver are often not supplemented with vitamin A, because liver is an excellent source of vitamin A. vitamin B-12 supplement/cyanocobalamin: Although usually referred to on labels as vitamin B-12, this B-vitamin is sometimes called by its chemical name cyanocobalamin. Vitamin B-12 is only found in animal based ingredients, and most animals obtain enough vitamin B-12 from the microbes in their gut. Animals on antibiotics may require supplemental vitamin B-12. zinc proteinate/zinc sulfate/zinc oxide: Three compounds which are used as a source of zinc. The zinc from zinc proteinate is highly available and is important for proper maintenance of hair, skin, bones, muscles and blood. It also helps digestion and reproduction.

Posted By treble02 on 04/07/2008 2:20 PM
Does Jack have CDA for sure Sarah? I wasnt sure...sorry if I totally missed it!! LOL...my only other concern is that it may be mange....Cameo, Lily and Titus tested positive for it ( littlermates) but I wonder sometimes if vets just say they tested positive as a quick fix thing....i dont know ...I know that sounds bad....

Yes, Mary.  His Bipsy came back CDA.  I would have Toa scraped, it can't hurt.  Then you can at least rule it out or treat it.  The fact that the white stripe on his head is fine and it is only blue hair affrected makes me think it isn't but you never know.  A scraping is cheap and quick and better to treat it now than wait. 

My 2 cents on Wellness Core.  I tried it with the boys and within days they were shedding out of control.  Jack rarely sheds and his hair was just falling out.  in looking it up I came up with a pit forum that many many people were saying they had the same reaction.  It may be the type of oil they use or something, but be aware that it was an issue with some dogs, not sure why.  It stopped as soon as I took them off Core.  I know Ski has used it with no problems. 

Hey Mary...i have a Solid Gold question for you. Or for anyone else that feeds Solid Gold Just A Wee Bit in the pink bag. We started the process of switching Yaz to this from Hills Science Diet on Sunday. Her poops have become VERY soft and light colored. I thought that poor quality foods caused poops to be looser, not the other way around. She was getting 3/4 cup 2x daily on Hills. We are doing 1/4 cup Solid Gold, 1/2 cup Hills 2x daily but I don't know if I should continue. Opinions please.

yup...thanks Mary...that describes it perfectly. She didn't have pellets before but it was darker and firmer. I would say normal looking poo. I wonder why this food is doing causes looser poo. Hmmmm...kinda sucks. Yaz holds her pee when left alone but not always her poo. That's gonna leave a mark.

I would back off a little bit.  There are probably more calories in the Solid Gold, so you might feed a little less than 1 1/2 cups total. Feeding too much can cause loose stool,  but it could also be the higher fat content in the Wee Bit causing it.  I would just make the transition a little slower and give it a chance.