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Rat-Terrier.com
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MollysDad

Rattie

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| 03/28/2008 8:50 AM |
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I have a Rat Terrier, who just celebrated (with some Schwan's doggie ice cream) her 13th birthday. She's a great dog, in remarkably good health, and is generally in good condition. We have a pack of dogs - my fiancee's 7.5 year old Rat Terrier and my 7.5 year old Boston terrier. All 3 are inside dogs.
She loves my fiancee, almost too much. When she's around the house, my dog follows her like her shadow, and before bed each night, she loves on my fiancee.
What the issue recently has been is that when she (Molly my Rat Terrier) wants my fiancee up, she sits & stares at her, and scratches at her until she gets up. This can be several times a night. She (the Rat Terrier) doesn't do it to me, unless she wants to go outside, which is infrequently.
But, she'll paw & scratch & stare at her all night at times. Consequently, she can't remember the last time she (my fiancee) slept through the night without being woke up by the dog.
I've noticed that my Rat Terrier is a heavy sleeper during the day, but doesn't go to sleep at all once we get home in the evenings, and generally is attached to my fiancee the whole time she's around the house. At night though, the dog is up & down like a yo-yo, going to get water, to check on her chewies, and whatever at several different times during the night. She will sleep, just for shorter durations at night. But never all night.
As a result, we're both exhausted from lack of sleep.
The other two dogs though, will sleep through the night, most every night.
One issue that may be part of it is that my fiancee's dog sometimes stays with a friend of hers for a week or so at a time, and we've noticed that the problem with my rat terrier's sleeping is worse the week the other rat terrier comes home. They get along great with each other, and there are no issues I know of that they have in determining each other's place in the house.
It's been brought up that my rat terrier may have Cognitive Dysfunction Syndrome, but she exhibits none of the other symptoms outside of the sleeping ones (Disorientation/Confusion, Interaction, or loss of house training). There have been a couple of "accidents" but they have generally been when my dog knows it's raining and won't go out to do her business.
The vet gave me some medication a while back for use when there are bad thunderstorms, and I only give her about 1/8 of a pill at a time - it knocks her out so much that she loses control of her bladder during the night, so I avoid that mostly at all costs. A Benadryl helps, but I do not like to give her drugs just so I can sleep.
Does anyone know of anything that could be the issue here, or have any suggestions that wouldn't be intoxicating my dog to get her to sleep at night?
Help!!!!! |
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rattytatty

 Training Moderator

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| 03/28/2008 9:00 AM |
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| Important question -- do you both work? are you both gone during the daytime hours? If so... where are the dogs when you are gone and how long are you gone? |
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~Nora~ Mom to Hoss, Lil'Bit, Buster & Bailey, CGC, OA, OAJ |
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MollysDad

Rattie

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| 03/28/2008 9:24 AM |
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To answer your question, yes, we both work.
My fiancee owns a Gift & Gourmet food store, and usually is gone from 9:30 - 6:00 p.m. 6 days a week, and I have an 8-5 job every weekday, and close up for her when I get off my "regular" job. We're both working on Saturdays, mostly. |
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Mitzy's Mom

 Alpha Feist

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| 03/28/2008 9:26 AM |
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| My first thought is that she needs some good quality exercise during the day to help her sleep better at night. Do you take the dogs on long walks each day? |
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Mary Beth, mom to the Lollipop Kids
Georgia Foster Mom www.ratbonerescues.com; www.newrattitude.org |
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MollysDad

Rattie

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| 03/28/2008 9:27 AM |
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To answer the second part of your question - the dogs are in the house, mostly everywhere they want to be except our bedroom. I shut them out of there during the daytime. Molly's days have been like this since she was a puppy. I had had some problems with her being anxious and destructive when she was a puppy, but that has been a long long time ago. |
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MollysDad

Rattie

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| 03/28/2008 9:30 AM |
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| Mitzy's Mom - When my fiancee leaves her store when I get there after work, she takes them on a walk, weather permitting. Yesterday she did that, and last night was one of the worst nights in a long time. She didn't get more than 1 uninterrupted hour of sleep. I slept okay, and only woke a couple of times, but that was when she got up to let them out during the night. |
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gwacie

 Rat-A-Tat-Tat

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| 03/28/2008 9:32 AM |
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| Nora will likely have great answers for you. I'm wondering if you might try an night time walk for her or all three dogs. Something to tire her a bit. Or, since she is older, is her bed uncomfortable to her now? |
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gwacie (Bethany) My Doggies: http://www.myadams.net/dogs/ Rescue: http://www.newrattitude.org |
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Mitzy's Mom

 Alpha Feist

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| 03/28/2008 9:35 AM |
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| Hm, well, it was just a thought. Maybe consult a dog behaviorist? I'm sorry I don't have any more ideas but I understand how frustrating and tiring it can be to not ever get a good night's sleep. I guess if worse comes to worse you could shut her out of the bedroom.... |
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Mary Beth, mom to the Lollipop Kids
Georgia Foster Mom www.ratbonerescues.com; www.newrattitude.org |
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MollysDad

Rattie

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| 03/28/2008 9:39 AM |
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Posted By gwacie on 03/28/2008 9:32 AM
Nora will likely have great answers for you. I'm wondering if you might try an night time walk for her or all three dogs. Something to tire her a bit. Or, since she is older, is her bed uncomfortable to her now?
I've thought about the walk a little later, but we're usually eating dinner around 8 or so.
Regarding her bed - I hope it's not uncomfortable - It's mine, too!!!
When I shut her out of the bedroom during the day, she has a choice of one or two beds, the porch with a couple of loveseats on it, and the living room where there's a sofa & chair. |
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rattytatty

 Training Moderator

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| 03/28/2008 9:49 AM |
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At this age its very normal for your dog to have a couple changes in her habits and conduct, you can try changing her food schedules to a little later so she wont wake up during the night, or give her no treats before going to bed.
Crate training at this stage won’t be impossible, but yes very hard if she’s used to sleeping with you. However, it might be something you may wish to try. I have a 12-year old doxie who has slept with us all his life, but the reality of it is.... when he starts becoming incontinent (and he will... they usually do at some point in their older years)... I will probably have to resort to putting him a crate as bad as I hate to. Remember this isn’t her misbehaving; it’s a change in her system, that probably has her acting differently.
Most elderly dogs require more sleep... not less. LOL However, it doesn't sound like that's the case here. She's obviously sleeping during the day and it could be... same as with elderly humans sometimes... she just has insomnia at night. I agree with the suggestion you've been given about more exercise. I know that because of her age, strenuous exercise is out of the question... but is it possible to reschedule the walks so that they are closer to bedtime? I realize this may be contingent on where you live, etc... but I think that might be your key. When my dogs are really tired, they sleep better. If you can't walk her... can you play fetch with her... or engage her in some other type of physical activity to where she will be more physically tired at night? I hope this is a possibility for you... because if it isn't... and crating her isn't an option... and if the situation doesn't improve otherwise... you may be looking at medicating her, and I agree with you that meds aren't the most ideal solution! |
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~Nora~ Mom to Hoss, Lil'Bit, Buster & Bailey, CGC, OA, OAJ |
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MollysDad

Rattie

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| 03/28/2008 10:11 AM |
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Just so you know who I'm talking about, here's a photo made last summer of her. Her name's Molly. I'm biased, but she's a precious little girl.

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rattytatty

 Training Moderator

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| 03/28/2008 10:27 AM |
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| There is nothing more precious than a senior dog... luv the white on her face. My doxie has white feet but no white on his face yet. I hope you can get the behavior straightened out so the humans in your household can settle down and get some sleep! I'm thrilled that Molly is still in good health! |
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~Nora~ Mom to Hoss, Lil'Bit, Buster & Bailey, CGC, OA, OAJ |
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Mitzy's Mom

 Alpha Feist

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| 03/28/2008 10:28 AM |
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| She's a real cutie! |
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Mary Beth, mom to the Lollipop Kids
Georgia Foster Mom www.ratbonerescues.com; www.newrattitude.org |
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MollysDad

Rattie

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| 03/28/2008 10:47 AM |
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Molly will run - a little - when she's out, and has absolutely no problems getting around. But, where her people are, is where she wants to be. Part of it, I believe, is that she doesn't see or hear that well any more, as I notice a cloudiness in her eyes now. But, she'll still chase a laser pointed at the floor!! One other thing she's doing more too, is taking our hands off when we give her a treat. It may be from competition within the pack, but she's a lot more "grabby" than she used to be, and we've got the scars on our hands to prove it. |
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DaisysMom

 Moderator

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| 03/28/2008 10:48 AM |
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I don't have anything to add advice-wise. Hopefully some of the suggestions given will help you and Molly. I love the close up Makes me wanna give her a smooch! |
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Tracey - Darlin' Daisy's Mom
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rattytatty

 Training Moderator

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| 03/28/2008 10:48 AM |
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Then either give her treats with the treat in the palm... and extend the hand palm up... Or close the treat in a fist.. and open the fist slowly... |
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~Nora~ Mom to Hoss, Lil'Bit, Buster & Bailey, CGC, OA, OAJ |
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MollysDad

Rattie

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| 03/28/2008 11:04 AM |
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| What's the general consensus here about some of the anti-anxiety supplements that contain chamomile? One I had been looking at was the Ultra Calm Treats from Dr. Foster-Smith. Or perhaps some of the dietary supplements from the drugstore. Or perhaps making a semi-chamomile "tea" for their water bowl? |
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MollysDad

Rattie

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| 03/28/2008 11:08 AM |
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Posted By DaisysMom on 03/28/2008 10:48 AM
I love the close up  Makes me wanna give her a smooch!
Thanks! Molly will definitley return the favor. One of Molly's nightly rituals is for her to "love" on my fiancee, by licking on her, whether her face, her hands or arms, with her nub wagging the whole time she does it. She'll do this when she's ready to go to bed, at least for a little while. |
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Mitzy's Mom

 Alpha Feist

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| 03/28/2008 11:38 AM |
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Posted By MollysDad on 03/28/2008 10:47 AM
Molly will run - a little - when she's out, and has absolutely no problems getting around. But, where her people are, is where she wants to be. Part of it, I believe, is that she doesn't see or hear that well any more, as I notice a cloudiness in her eyes now. But, she'll still chase a laser pointed at the floor!!
One other thing she's doing more too, is taking our hands off when we give her a treat. It may be from competition within the pack, but she's a lot more "grabby" than she used to be, and we've got the scars on our hands to prove it.
I have two dogs with only 1 eye and Skipper, the male, will almost always get me with his teeth when taking a treat...it's because he can't see to judge the distance correctly.
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Mary Beth, mom to the Lollipop Kids
Georgia Foster Mom www.ratbonerescues.com; www.newrattitude.org |
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PamWh

 Rattitude Problem

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| 03/28/2008 3:36 PM |
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| I'm no dog psychologist and I don't even play one on TV, but it sounds like Molly has gotten obsessive/compulsive about your fiancee. Like she is keeping her awake at night to have her attention. Isn't this one of the things that can happen to senior dogs, kind of like a little senility? |
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PamWh aka Bob's Mom
If your rattie ain't happy, ain't nobody happy! |
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MollysDad

Rattie

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| 03/28/2008 3:54 PM |
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Posted By PamWh on 03/28/2008 3:36 PM
I'm no dog psychologist and I don't even play one on TV, but it sounds like Molly has gotten obsessive/compulsive about your fiancee. Like she is keeping her awake at night to have her attention. Isn't this one of the things that can happen to senior dogs, kind of like a little senility?
It might be, but that's not necessarily one of the symptoms of CDS in dogs.
I have no idea how to treat OCD in a dog...... |
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PamWh

 Rattitude Problem

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| 03/28/2008 4:03 PM |
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Okay, I can check off at least 7 things on that list for myself. Maybe if your fiancee started having a little special one-on-one time with Molly right after dinner that might help? I have no idea either. Another thought about the licking on her, has she started wearing a new lotion? Maybe Molly really likes the smell or taste of that. |
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PamWh aka Bob's Mom
If your rattie ain't happy, ain't nobody happy! |
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bRatGirl

 Ratterific

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| 03/28/2008 4:30 PM |
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When Molly wakes up your fiancee at night, is it to take her outside to potty? Or just to wake her up in general? |
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Wendy Kusamura California Foster Mom Home Visit Coordinator Rat Terrier ResQ, Inc. www.ratterrierresq.com a Non Profit 501(c)(3) "To One Dog You Just May Be The World" |
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MollysDad

Rattie

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| 03/28/2008 8:30 PM |
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When she wakes her up, we generally make her go out, but not always. But it is seldom for her to have an urgent "need" to go out. I mean, she rarely messes up in the house. Mostly though, it's just to sit & stare at her when she wakes her up at night. The dog doesn't do this to me, unless she really does have to go outside.
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gwacie

 Rat-A-Tat-Tat

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| 03/28/2008 9:01 PM |
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Who is the main care giver (most food, love, attention giving)? Ever try just picking her up and cuddling her back to sleep? Did you try that night time walkies yet? Molly has a very sweet face, great pic! |
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gwacie (Bethany) My Doggies: http://www.myadams.net/dogs/ Rescue: http://www.newrattitude.org |
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MollysDad

Rattie

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| 03/28/2008 10:10 PM |
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I'm the grocery man, my fiancee is the one who is worshipped by Molly. I kid with her that she's like Snow White except with the dogs!
No walk tonight, just a long one this afternoon when she got home. So far, everyone's tired out & apparently down for the evening, but it's early yet. |
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MollysDad

Rattie

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| 03/31/2008 9:32 AM |
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Just an update to everyone after this weekend.
Last night, we had what may be an issue I would like to deny. Sometime around 4:30 this morning, Molly had an accident in the bed, and lost control of her bladder. In her/our bed. I'm thinking that she may have some sort of kidney infection. Reason I'm saying that is that I had caught a little of a smell to it when I noticed it this morning.
One thing I have noticed though, is that she, when she does sleep, falls into a really deep deep sleep, that we sometimes have to touch her to wake her up from.
She's done this a few times before, mostly though, when I've given her some sort of drug that makes her sleepy. Other times, she has had a kidney/bladder infection.
As far as being in denial, I do not want to think that this may be the beginning of the end for my little girl. I hope that I'm making more out of it than it actually is.
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rattytatty

 Training Moderator

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| 03/31/2008 9:50 AM |
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| Don't "go there" yet. Have her checked out by your vet ... she may just have a urinary tract infection. Incontinence and behavior changes are common in our older dogs... but there are things your vet can do to help! It's easy to be in denial about situations such as these... but try to remain optimistic and realistic as much as possible. Your vet can help you... |
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~Nora~ Mom to Hoss, Lil'Bit, Buster & Bailey, CGC, OA, OAJ |
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maggiew607

 Terrier Terror

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| 03/31/2008 9:52 AM |
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Poor Molly, and poor you guys. From what it sounds like, I would bring her to the vet and have her checked out, especially if you think she might have an infection. Don't fret about this being the begining of the end, she most likely has several years left to love you, as doggie parents we tend to worry, and a visit to the vet could help ease some of your fears. Good luck with everyhting. |
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**Maggie, Mom to CoCo and Angus**
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MollysDad

Rattie

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| 04/01/2008 3:46 PM |
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Well, the trip yesterday went okay. The verdict was that she's got a UTI, which I kinda figured, based on how the accident "smelled"... Nevertheless, she's still 13 years old, and I know I've got less time with her than I did before.
We figure that her hearing's going a little bit, although I'm not so sure about how much of the hearing is natural deafness versus "selective" hearing. Seems like a cheese wrapper will bring her out of a coma from a couple hundred feet.
Something funny - we picked up a Rat Terrier magazine sometime last summer, and have gotten a big laugh out of one of the comments in it:
"Rat Terriers are highly motivated by food".....
Dunno if it's just mine & my fiancee's Rats that are that way or not......
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