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Subject: Lots of big words! help!
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Author Messages
kimrose


Feisty
Feisty
03/25/2008 11:58 AM  
no new carpet and I don't use that powder stuff. I'm not sure what it could be, but he is always licking his feet. Not to the raw stage though, but he has always been super sensitive about them...

It was funny though, the vet asked me if he likes to go under blankets, because being cold is one of the symptoms... and I just thought, well he's a rattie... so yes, he likes blankets

Sue, thanks for the tips, if his levels don't even out after this months tests, I may look into home cooking. It's funny though, the vet suggested I mix the new prescrip. food with his EVO, but EVO is very high in protein....

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rattytatty


Training Moderator
Training Moderator
03/25/2008 12:06 PM  
Kim... Bailey prefers to be underneath blankets, but he doesn't bite his feet. He just doesn't have much hair! Not sure that could be taken as a "symptom" ???

~Nora~
Mom to Hoss, Lil'Bit, Buster & Bailey, CGC, OA, OAJ
kimrose


Feisty
Feisty
03/25/2008 12:11 PM  
Posted By rattytatty on 03/25/2008 12:06 PM
Kim... Bailey prefers to be underneath blankets, but he doesn't bite his feet. He just doesn't have much hair! Not sure that could be taken as a "symptom" ???


lol, I know!  That's kinda what I said, ratties are just cuddle bums!!  But then she kinda looked for other ways to figure out if he was unually cold, like asking if he sits on tile or linoleum (which he refuses too!) ... I think being cold was a symptom for the thyroid problem...


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PamWh


Rattitude Problem
Rattitude Problem
03/25/2008 12:14 PM  

Bless his heart!  I'm so sorry he's dealing with some health issues (and you too).  I have an underactive thyroid and take synthroid every morning.  I can't really tell a difference, as I'm still overweight, cranky, and moody.   But, thanks to having hot flashes, I'm not cold all the time. 

I hope he gets to feeling better soon.


PamWh
aka Bob's Mom

If your rattie ain't happy, ain't nobody happy!
brittania98


Ratterific
Ratterific
03/25/2008 6:23 PM  
Hey kim- just out of curiosity.. What food did you have him on before all these problems started?
I have a big theory that food has a large effect on EVERYTHING. Also- If you are interested check out a book on Holistic Dog health. There are ALL kind of natural remedies found in fresh fruits and vegi's and other healthy foods and well as herbal supplements vitamins and minerals. The more I read the more I see that a dog's immune system is VERY important..if it is running on low then it gives an opportunity for all kinds of new problems to step into the situation. Unfortunatly, a lot of the medications that vet's hand out only do more damage to the immune system..


Brittany
(Clyde and Chloe)
kimrose


Feisty
Feisty
03/25/2008 7:50 PM  
thanks Brittany! I do try to research all that stuff, a lot more now than I ever did before, its just so much to learn! I'm learning little by little though We ended up choosing Innova Evo for Mic because he just was having bad reactions to all the other foods.... and Evo seemed to be working out great. But now the vet wants him to try out this ID food, I just picked it up and read the ingredients.... bleh! I don't know what to do... I mean, i like this vet, she was on our side with the vaccines and told us we didn't need them except for rabies. We were thinking of a holistic vet but they are so expensive here, but now with everything that's going on with him I think we may reconsider.

I just have A LOT of research ahead of me...

thanks for the laugh Pam

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Rowdy's Mom


Rat-A-Tat-Tat
Rat-A-Tat-Tat
03/25/2008 10:11 PM  
Poor Mic!! Hugs from me and licks from Rowdy! That's an awful lot for one little dog. All those problems- sounds scary! Take it one day at a time and just stay optimistic. Sounds like all of it can be controlled.
Not a big fan of the Science Diet myself, either. Z/D Ultra was prescribed for Schatzi's disease. I kept her on it for several months, but it didn't seem to make a difference for her. Seemed like it was the meds that made the difference for her. Totally different disease with her, but since they think her fistulas may be caused by allergies, I switched her to NB Duck and Potato. My vet doesn't agree with my desicion, but I really feel better about it. After all, after the switch, it's not like her disease really got any worse. Did you ask the vet about any other dietary options? Or ask exactly what the purpose of the prescription food was? Mine explained the purpose of the ZD and I just tried to find a similar, healtier alternative.

~Chrys~ Mom to Rowdy, Schatzi (shephard mix), and Sam (lab mix)
http://www.myspace.com/rowdyluvsschatzi
kimrose


Feisty
Feisty
03/25/2008 11:21 PM  
Well, the vet wants him on this food to keep the protein and fat down. I don't know how long I'll keep him on it though, I just can't get over the ingredients. I mean, the first few are what I've been trying to stay away from! I told her that, but agreed to do this one month trial to see what happens... The food he was/is on is EVO, which is high in protein.

Well, I just gave him his first round of meds and he ate them great! No treats involved, just plain pills! The vet asked to try and keep the treats as limited as possible for now... try to keep him on a strict diet. He didn't like the allergy med, must have been bitter because he kept spitting it back out, but I asked him nicely and he ate it This just gets me, its against everything I know, but me and Kevin agreed. One month. We'll see what happens and do all our research.

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brittania98


Ratterific
Ratterific
03/26/2008 12:02 PM  
Oh good..evo is great! I just asked because some people will have their dogs on like Eukanuba and then wonder why there are health problems. (I did this..before this site I had not a CLUE that there was such a thing as bad dog food)

There is a lot to learn..Ive discovered that myself. I have inhaled about 6 books in the past month on the subject and thankfully saw a lot of repeat information. I personally think that the best vet is one that mixes the use of Holistic remedies and traditional remedies.
This way they are killing the bacteria..(or whatever the problem may be) quickly with the antibiotic.. but also balancing out the body with the herbs, vitamins and minerals to get it into tip top shape.

Perhaps if you find a holistic vet near you, you could just call and talk to them- tell them your list of problems and see what they would suggest.
I'm sure you want to avoid as many extra vet bills as possible. (I know I do)

Good luck to you Kim!

Brittany
(Clyde and Chloe)
brittania98


Ratterific
Ratterific
03/26/2008 12:11 PM  
Wait the vet is telling you low protein?? And telling you to feed EVo?
WHAT???? Oh Kim.. thats a big sign to rethink this vet.
What are the ingredients in the Prescribed food?
What is she suggesting that he needs? Let me know..I may be able to help you to formulate a good diet. You can buy every possible thing that could be needed in a dog diet at a health food store. I have collected literally every vitamin and mineral under the sun and it was all easy to find!
I'm in the process of starting my own dog food company that is going to be customized food for each individual dog (based on their specific needs arthritis, cancer, allergies etc) ..Im already cooking for quite a few dogs, but not taking any more orders at this time as I am in the process of working with a holistic vet to make sure everything is perfect.. But I would really like to try to help you put together a good recipe for you to try cooking. (if this is the route you want to take)

Brittany


Brittany
(Clyde and Chloe)
kimrose


Feisty
Feisty
03/26/2008 12:13 PM  
Thanks Brittany I may just call a holistic vet, that's a good idea... can't charge for a phone call right?!

Before I found this site and learned about foods, Mic was eating Pedigree... I went through a lot of food changes before we settled on EVO, he just has allergy issues and was having lots of problems...

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brittania98


Ratterific
Ratterific
03/26/2008 1:56 PM  
My Dogs where also on pedigree! And like you I switched them several times before putting them on the evo..and now the homecooked diet (with a little evo mixed in here or there..or if I dont have time to cook)

It was shocking how fast their help improved getting them off of Pedigree.. I was feeding my larger one Clyde hardly anything..and yet he was still gaining excessive weight. Now he gets to eat far more food and is the perfect weight.

I wish that I could yell from the rooftops to tell the world how bad most dog food is

Brittany
(Clyde and Chloe)
WcolsOH


Rattie
Rattie
03/26/2008 2:08 PM  

About the pancriatitis, I had a bichon who had chronic pancriatitis, and my vet put him on Canine I/D which really worked.  I gave him the dry forumula, and he loved it.  I also discovered that whenever I was stressed out, Sammy would get one of his pancriatitis attacks, usually mild, but his first attack was the most concerning.  It happened on a weekend and I had to bring him to the 24-hour emergency vet clinic.  Basically, what I did for him, over the years, was to never, I mean never, feed him ANY people-food or anything (even dog biscuits) except his own Canine I/D.  Then, in a 4-year timespan, he may have had 4 attacks, all mild.  But, again, if I remained calm, and kept him on the Canine I/D, he never had an episode.

kimrose


Feisty
Feisty
03/26/2008 2:17 PM  
the vet really put emphasis on NO people food... He ate the ID last night and seemed to like it, but then it was mixed with his old food. It really stinks though! I was shocked!

I wonder what I can sneak his pills in, I usually use peanut butter, but I can't now. He took the one last night fine, but this morning it took awhile, I think he's catching on...

Oh, and WcolsOH, what is an attack like? The vet didn't mention he could get an attack!

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SuzieRedhead


Rat-A-Tat-Tat
Rat-A-Tat-Tat
03/26/2008 2:39 PM  
Posted By kimrose on 03/26/2008 12:13 PM
Thanks Brittany I may just call a holistic vet, that's a good idea... can't charge for a phone call right?!

Before I found this site and learned about foods, Mic was eating Pedigree... I went through a lot of food changes before we settled on EVO, he just has allergy issues and was having lots of problems...

 

 


My Sasha saw a holistic vet and she's the one who told me to home cook her food. I can't understand why your vet says no people food - does he sell the I/D there or something? Even my own regular vet said, when Sasha had pancreatitis attacks, to only give her white rice and chicken breast - that's people food!! You just have to be careful of fatty foods when babies have pancreatitis!

I love my holistic vet - she's absolutely wonderful. I won't go into specifics here cuz it's complicated, BUT... Sasha was put on a shot (that my holistic vet gave her) that brought up her cortisol levels - that's what caused a lot of Sasha's problems - and once she was given these shots and her levels were elevated - her allergies ceased to exist. Sasha was then put on a natural hydrocortisone liquid that helped keep her levels elevated. Unfortunately, it doesn't help with the thyroid issue, but that's easily controlled with meds.

If you want to give me your email, I can email you the article my holistic vet gave me that explained a lot about cortisol imbalances and the conditions it can cause.

Sue


Sue Carello, Scotia, NY (near Albany)
Ratbone Rescues Fostermom, etc...
www.ratbonerescues.com
Fostermom to Oh Mickey and Prince Ratbone

Who do YOU GoodSearch/GoodShop for? Go to www.goodsearch.com and type in Ratbone Rescues!
kimrose


Feisty
Feisty
03/26/2008 2:46 PM  
that would be wonderful Sue! my email is kimrose633@gmail.com

yeah, I bought the food at the vet's office...

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SuzieRedhead


Rat-A-Tat-Tat
Rat-A-Tat-Tat
03/26/2008 2:53 PM  

Sent! 


Sue Carello, Scotia, NY (near Albany)
Ratbone Rescues Fostermom, etc...
www.ratbonerescues.com
Fostermom to Oh Mickey and Prince Ratbone

Who do YOU GoodSearch/GoodShop for? Go to www.goodsearch.com and type in Ratbone Rescues!
Mitzy's Mom


PAWesome
PAWesome
03/26/2008 3:05 PM  

Kim, is the food your vet gave you Hill's Canine ID?  I just looked it up on their website....to put it bluntly - it's gross.  Lots of corn and chicken by-product meal...

http://www.hillspet.com/hillspet/products/productDetails.hjsp?PRODUCT<>prd_id=845524441760640

For the Nutritional Management of Dogs with Gastrointestinal Disorders.

Gastrointestinal (GI) disorders affect the stomach and intestines, causing painful symptoms and problems with your dog’s overall health. Some of the more common symptoms include vomiting, regurgitation, flatulence, weakness, diarrhea or constipation. Prescription Diet® i/d® Canine dog food is a highly digestible formula created specifically to help manage dogs with GI disorders. There are several types of GI disorders that affect dogs, including colitis, constipation/diarrhea, gastroenteritis and pancreatitis. The nutritional formulation of Prescription Diet® i/d® may also be useful for pets with a variety of conditions.

 

 

 

Ingredients

Ground Whole Grain Corn, Brewers Rice, Dried Egg Product, Chicken By-Product Meal, Corn Gluten Meal, Pork Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Powdered Cellulose, Dicalcium Phosphate, Chicken Liver Flavor, Iodized Salt, Potassium Citrate, Choline Chloride, Calcium Carbonate, Potassium Chloride, Dried Beet Pulp, Soybean Oil, vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Taurine, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), Ethoxyquin (a preservative).


Mary Beth, mom to the Lollipop Kids

Georgia Foster Mom, New Rattitude
Check out our ratties at www.newrattitude.org
SuzieRedhead


Rat-A-Tat-Tat
Rat-A-Tat-Tat
03/26/2008 3:11 PM  
Posted By Mitzy's Mom on 03/26/2008 3:05 PM

Kim, is the food your vet gave you Hill's Canine ID?  I just looked it up on their website....to put it bluntly - it's gross.  Lots of corn and chicken by-product meal...

http://www.hillspet.com/hillspet/products/productDetails.hjsp?PRODUCT<>prd_id=845524441760640

For the Nutritional Management of Dogs with Gastrointestinal Disorders.

Gastrointestinal (GI) disorders affect the stomach and intestines, causing painful symptoms and problems with your dog’s overall health. Some of the more common symptoms include vomiting, regurgitation, flatulence, weakness, diarrhea or constipation. Prescription Diet® i/d® Canine dog food is a highly digestible formula created specifically to help manage dogs with GI disorders. There are several types of GI disorders that affect dogs, including colitis, constipation/diarrhea, gastroenteritis and pancreatitis. The nutritional formulation of Prescription Diet® i/d® may also be useful for pets with a variety of conditions.

 

 

 

 

Ingredients

Ground Whole Grain Corn, Brewers Rice, Dried Egg Product, Chicken By-Product Meal, Corn Gluten Meal, Pork Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Powdered Cellulose, Dicalcium Phosphate, Chicken Liver Flavor, Iodized Salt, Potassium Citrate, Choline Chloride, Calcium Carbonate, Potassium Chloride, Dried Beet Pulp, Soybean Oil, vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Taurine, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), Ethoxyquin (a preservative).

 

Mitzy's Mom - thank you for taking the words right out of my mouth!!  AND FYI - ethoxyquin is a known CARCINOGEN!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/toxicology_of_bha.htm

It's why I NEVER feed Science Diet and try to deter people who do.


Sue Carello, Scotia, NY (near Albany)
Ratbone Rescues Fostermom, etc...
www.ratbonerescues.com
Fostermom to Oh Mickey and Prince Ratbone

Who do YOU GoodSearch/GoodShop for? Go to www.goodsearch.com and type in Ratbone Rescues!
Ski


Ratastic
Ratastic
03/26/2008 3:13 PM  

Wow,  that's alot for you and Mic to deal with.  I'm with you on the prescription i/d food,   I had to feed Oscar two cans of it during his recent illness and I was less than impressed.   It didn't smell good at all but I had no problem feeding it since it had a purpose and was temporary.  I couldn't feed it for the rest of his life though.  I would stick to the vets plan for 3 weeks and hope it helps.  Hopefully his blood test results will improve by then.  If your vet ends up recommending prescription food for life,  I would seriously consider a consult at  http://www.betterdogcare.com/      She is very educated about nutrition and animal care and can tailor a specific diet for Mic, whether it be commercial dog food or home prepared.  Her prices look reasonable too, certainly less than multiple trips to the vet. Also, you could probably get some good advice at her chat site/board,   http://www.ourdogsonline.com/  , in the nutrition forum.  I've found lots of good info there. Hopefully the pancreatitis was a one time thing and not chronic.  And I'm with Sue on the people food.  I'm sure that the vet says no to it because some people would be giving fried foods or roast beef with gravy, or other fatty food so it's just safer to say no to all people food. Also, if you haven't already done so, get a copy of the blood test results.  It's good to have that info at your fingertips if you want to do research or if you get a consult,  they'll want that info too.  Good luck to you and Mic.

brittania98


Ratterific
Ratterific
03/26/2008 3:15 PM  
People food? People food is what Animal food is made out of..
Crazy. what Im sure she means is to stay away from "bad" people food.. high sodium, white flour, sugar.
But seriously NOTHIng beats a meal of FREsh veggies, (not cooked..but chopped super small for easy digestion) Meat (just start with one) and Brown Rice or oats, sweet potatoes and some vitamins and supplements. All you do is give 1/3 of meat, 1/3 of carbs (this includes the potatoes) and 1/3 fresh vegi's! Throw in some Flax oil. olive oil and maybe fish oil and you are good to go. You can get creative and throw in eggs, and almost every vegtable under the sun.
You can make it and put it into individual bags or tupperware and for each day and then freeze it..and thaw each container out day by day.

Give it a shot..seriously!!!!

Brittany
(Clyde and Chloe)
kimrose


Feisty
Feisty
03/26/2008 3:21 PM  
yeah MB, that's the stuff I know, its gross huh! I don't want my baby eating it, but the vet said its only for a month. It was very expensive too... $24 for a 10 lb bag! I feel sick about this whole thing... I want to home cook his meals, but I just dont have the time, $$, energy... you know how it is...

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kimrose


Feisty
Feisty
03/26/2008 3:26 PM  
Posted By brittania98 on 03/26/2008 3:15 PM
People food? People food is what Animal food is made out of..
Crazy. what Im sure she means is to stay away from "bad" people food.. high sodium, white flour, sugar.
But seriously NOTHIng beats a meal of FREsh veggies, (not cooked..but chopped super small for easy digestion) Meat (just start with one) and Brown Rice or oats, sweet potatoes and some vitamins and supplements. All you do is give 1/3 of meat, 1/3 of carbs (this includes the potatoes) and 1/3 fresh vegi's! Throw in some Flax oil. olive oil and maybe fish oil and you are good to go. You can get creative and throw in eggs, and almost every vegtable under the sun.
You can make it and put it into individual bags or tupperware and for each day and then freeze it..and thaw each container out day by day.

Give it a shot..seriously!!!!


wow, you make it sound so easy!!


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brittania98


Ratterific
Ratterific
03/26/2008 3:49 PM  
Its not as complicated as you would think..

Email me brittania98@juno.com

and I can help you come up with a good recipe if you would like If you spend about an hour making it and freezing it.. thats all the time it will take for the next month!



Brittany
(Clyde and Chloe)
brittania98


Ratterific
Ratterific
03/26/2008 3:50 PM  
Its not as complicated as you would think..

Email me brittania98@juno.com

and I can help you come up with a good recipe if you would like If you spend about an hour making it and freezing it.. thats all the time it will take for the next month!



Brittany
(Clyde and Chloe)
SuzieRedhead


Rat-A-Tat-Tat
Rat-A-Tat-Tat
03/26/2008 3:51 PM  

NO ONIONS!  And you can add fruit, too.  Sasha liked blueberries and bananas and strawberres.  But NO GRAPES, either!!


Sue Carello, Scotia, NY (near Albany)
Ratbone Rescues Fostermom, etc...
www.ratbonerescues.com
Fostermom to Oh Mickey and Prince Ratbone

Who do YOU GoodSearch/GoodShop for? Go to www.goodsearch.com and type in Ratbone Rescues!
dogparkdawn


Ratastic
Ratastic
03/26/2008 3:57 PM  
OH KIM!

I have been away and hate to hear you having this trouble.



Build a little Bird House in Your Soul.

Dawn Muscarella
kimrose


Feisty
Feisty
03/26/2008 4:00 PM  
It's ok Dawn, I emailed ya, lol!! I figured you had been busy, and I have been busy doing research and taking on Mic's new dramas anyway! I swear, he loves to keep me busy!!

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WcolsOH


Rattie
Rattie
03/27/2008 6:25 AM  

Kimrose asked what a pancriatitis "attack" is like.   Actually, that's just my wording for it ("attack".  The symptoms I noticed were, wining alot, tail down or between the legs, not really eating or drinking, and acting "clingy".  Basically, it's painful for the dog.  Sammy's first attack was very painful, but over the 4 years since that first one, I learned to recognize the symptoms early on, so those subsequent occurrences never escalated.

My vet did blood work, and put Sammy on the Canine I/D.  The vet also said it would be ok to give Sammy 1/2 a Pepcid at the first sign of an attack to help calm his tummy, but I would definitely check with your vet first, before doing that with your doggie.

- Wendy

WcolsOH


Rattie
Rattie
03/27/2008 6:26 AM  

good grief, I just read my post and noticed that a closing parenthesis result in an emoticon! 

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