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HomersMom

Ratterific

10/05/2008 2:11 AM
I joined this forum because I was grieving the loss of my Rattie Homer. I have posted since then, including the news that I have a new Rattie, Monty, who is fitting in well here and is very much loved, even though he chewed part of an antique rocking chair today. What I have not mentioned and I am feeling bad about is that I also have Homer's sister Annie. We got the two together 10 1/2 years ago. I love Annie--she is a very sweet and funny little girl (not so little--she's about 18 pounds, most of it muscle). But Annie has always been kind of aloof, reserved, though still a great friend, while Homer was cuddly and possessive, and singled me out to be his Person. It doesn't mean she is loved less, but she never seemed to bond in quite the same way. She never wanted to sit in a lap, be petted for more than a few seconds, and hugging was something she always tried to pull away from. We tried to give her extra love and attention, but she seemed anxious and always ready for it to end. Much as I loved my Homer and still do, he was jealous and dominant, and I thnk that may have really affected Annie's personality. Three people could be petting Homer, but if he saw one person giving Annie attention, he had to go and butt her out of the way. So my question is, have you observed this with your multiple dog families? Do you feel that the personality of one shaped the personality of the other(s)? Did you feel that you should somehow try to change things? Annie didn't seem to grieve Homer's passing, which seemed odd to me since they'd been together their whole lives, including in the womb... But after a few weeks, she was less active, seemed quieter, not quite herself. I didn't know if she felt my sadness or if at some level she missed Homie, or a combination of both things. Now we have Monty the Monster, a rattie puppy. Annie doesn't seem jealous, her energy level is off the charts, she engages him in play even when he is too pooped to move, steals his toys, does all the things to compete that she never did with her brother. And she has become a cuddle queen, jumping in my lap, giving me kisses, she is more outgoing than I have ever seen her. Animals are much more complex, I think, than we give them credit for. Kate

tiggarat

Bratty Ratty

10/05/2008 3:06 AM
I really do think that their personalities are formed by the other dogs in the house, at least part of it anyways. I didn't think my dobie had any redeeming qualities until the ratties came into the family and she adopted them as "her" puppies, and she is so gentle and loving with them, whereas before, she was the spoiled girl with 3 older male dogs. it's amazing to see the difference. my ratties can be so jealous of each other...mostly Lucy, who thinks she should get all the attention. but they really love each other...in fact, they bonded to each other before they did to any of the humans here. even now, you rarely see one without the other. pack order is so interesting...and that alone can affect how they relate to each other and to the rest of the family. sounds like Homer was alpha, and now, with him gone and a new pup in the house, Annie is coming into her own and is enjoying being top dog with a younger male. maybe there was some power struggle between Homer and Annie that you didn't pick up on? I had a male lab and a male mixed breed who struggled for years over who should be alpha...when the lab died, I don't think the mix missed him one bit, and he enjoyed being top dog for the rest of his life. some dogs feel lost when they lose the alpha dog in the house...they don't want that role, and they need another dog that will come in and be dominant. other dogs love that chance, and they want a more submissive type of dog around them...which sounds like your Annie is doing now...she's letting the pup know from the start that she's the boss. I'm so glad that she's finally opening up to you after all these years, and I hope you have many more years with her. (oh, yeah, and you KNOW we need pics of both her and Monty )

Lisabeth furbabies: Lucy and Molly (1 1/2 yr old decker ratties), and Rosie (3 yr old dobie) Buddy - gone but never forgotten. "I don't think he has any idea he's a dog, really. Of course, he thinks he has a rather odd figure for a man" - Dodie Smith

kp_in_scott

Firehouse Big Dog

10/05/2008 3:51 PM
It does seem that Annie is coming into her own. She may also feel that the puppy is "hers" and is just happy about it. Amos certainly is enjoying "his" puppy.

Kim, owned by one sweet Rattie mix and one sweet Toy Rattie and a house full of parrots

RockysMom

Ratastic

10/06/2008 12:32 AM
I totally agree that other dogs can shape a personality. At home, Rocky is less cuddly, only when he wants to will he come up and just nuzzle for some love, and at bedtime. However, I have noticed the way he is with other dogs, he is a very accommodating fellow! He had a younger rattie playmate, my fur brother, Chance. Now, when Chance was little, Rocky played fair, let Chance get the better of him half the time. Now that Chance is grown up, he doesn't seem to remember the sharing that Rocky tried to teach him, and it affects Rocky. After the first hour together, Rocky is tired of being dominated, teased and having everything stolen from him by Chance. He puts chance in his place frequently, but Chance comes back for more, and Rocky will go back for second chances, but you can just see the exasperation and his patience wearing thin. I always make sure to pay special attention and give special treats to Rocky at my mom's to let him know how good I think he is being, and that somebody's there for him

Alicia H ~ Stepmom and Dogmom!

singingpilgrim

Ratastic

10/06/2008 12:54 AM
Cool to learn you have two ratties. My whole post "Sophie bit Radar" is talking about the jealousy thing-- but the truth is Radar is JUST as jealous as Sophie. Sophie loses her cool and barks or snaps, like in that post... but Radar is more persistant. If it doesn't work, Sophie will sulk. Radar is will just keep pushing Sophie out of the way, over and over and over... The other day I had to pick Sophie up in order to cuddle her because Radar wouldn't let her come to be petted without knocking her over.

Pamela ~Sophia Abigail's Mom~ Ratbones Rescue Volunteer

braeli_bryson

Terrier Terror

10/06/2008 7:21 AM
i think is was pekking order.. she was less dom and homer was more dom... she took her role in back of the pack. now homer is gone and she wasnt suyre where to belong.. but once monty came along she took the role of homer...

"No one knows YOU better than YOU!" gianni_mahopac, ny bryson: pearl tri color \| braeli: chocolate tri color.

tauney4

Pack Leader

10/06/2008 7:27 AM
wow that was alot said.i cant give you any advice cause i wouldnt know what to say or how to give you any advice but there are so many great people here on this board that will giave you some great advice

Mitzy's Mom

PAWesome

10/06/2008 7:46 AM
Very interesting. It does sound like Annie has come into her own, glad to hear she's happy with the new pup.

Mary Beth, mom to the Lollipop Kids Georgia Foster Mom, www.newrattitude.org Pics of my current fosters: http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/caradoc http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/willow http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/fiona

MurphyDog

Ratastic

10/07/2008 10:37 AM
Sounds like Annie has come out of her shell! Also sounds like she's taken on the Alpha role. Murphy is the RT in our family, and he is a terror (whom we love... but he's still a terror!). He picks on Daisy (our Cairn Terrier, and she puts him in his place eventually. Even though Murphy is way more gregarious and energetic, Daisy is the alpha. Murphy needs a strong woman in his life to keep him straight. Me too, for that matter...

Mitch and Murphy Hancock (the dog) "I've seen a look in dogs' eyes, a quickly vanishing look of amazed contempt, and I am convinced that basically dogs think humans are nuts." - John Steinbeck

HomersMom

Ratterific

10/08/2008 12:09 AM
Thanks for all your replies. When Annie and Homer were very young, things seemed to be about even. However, as they got older it was clear that Homer was the dominant one. We tried to give Annie extra loving, took her on walks by herself, but she never seemed comfortable. I would try to gently push Homer away and hold Annie, but she would jump down and let Homer take her place. When Homer died, I kept hoping Annie would become more outgoing, selfish I know, she's not there to meet my needs or be anyone other than what she is. She was the same aloof though sweet dog she'd always been, and I worried that adding another dog might be unfair to her. It is amazing to see her now with Monty, she is like a new dog. I don't think I've ever seen her so active, except when she was very young. Again tonight she chased him around the couch until he rolled over on his back, panting, then she nipped playfully at his tail, wagging her stump the whole time. Later he hid under the computer desk while she pulled the squeaker out of his favorite chew toy. She hasn't played with toys in years. I wonder what will happen though as Monty gets bigger. He is going to be a rather large boy--at 3 months he is 14 lbs, almost Annie's size--and I'd hate to see Annie go back in her shell. Kate

tiggarat

Bratty Ratty

10/08/2008 2:17 AM
at 3 months he's 14 lbs...yeah, Monty's going to be a BIG boy, that's about what my ratties were at that age, and they're now 26 and 32 lbs. just because he's going to be bigger than her doesn't mean that he will become more dominant...it sounds like Annie is letting him know from the start that she's the top dog around there, so really, that should stay the same as she gets older. when I got Rosie, I had a smaller dog than what she ended up being (he was 50 lbs to her 80 lbs), and she knew he was top dog, and respected that for the most part. the hard part was once she was bigger than him, convincing her to be gentle with him...she'd get hyper and run into the old guy and knock him down. I'd start teaching Monty to be gentle with her now, when they're both close to the same size, it will be harder to do once he's twice her size. I wish I had done that when Rosie was a pup...it would have made Nak's last few years much easier.

Lisabeth furbabies: Lucy and Molly (1 1/2 yr old decker ratties), and Rosie (3 yr old dobie) Buddy - gone but never forgotten. "I don't think he has any idea he's a dog, really. Of course, he thinks he has a rather odd figure for a man" - Dodie Smith

lihuesue

Ratterific

10/08/2008 8:11 AM
Hi. I wouldn't worry about Annie going back into her shell. My lil Zeke (1/2 rattie/1/2 doxie) was pack leader. When he passed, my female pug took over. I also have a male pug and a senior male english cocker. Enter rattie Luke to the pack. Luke was over 14 lbs. when we got him at almost 4 months. He was already larger than then my Suli. Luke will poke at all of them with his nose, real quick like a wood pecker... then back off... He will steal Suli's toys, he will butt in and move the rest of them out of the way to get petted... Suli will let him do what he wants to until she's had enough. Then she knocks him on his side and has him by his throat. She just mouthing him, she will not hurt him, just showing him who's boss. After that, he will be good for a short time and it will all start over again. Luke is just a puppy still... but he's also a rattie with lots of energy... They will all try to play together, but Luke wears them all out. My pugs are both 7 and Nick the cocker is about 13. Luke will be 6 months old in two weeks and he's still growing. He weighed 20 lbs. when he got neutered 3 weeks ago. He goes back for his final puppy shot this Friday... I bet he's going at least 25 lbs. now. He's tall, long and lean! His chest hasn't filled out all of the way yet.

RockysMom

Ratastic

10/08/2008 10:45 AM
Chance is the bully in our relationship. This is a REAL story: Rocky was playing with a toy that my mom gave him. He was standing, sniffing it, and Chance was in the other room. When he saw what Rocky had, he started to literally saunter over! Rocky looked up just in time for chance to shoulder into him, pushing him away from the toy, which he promptly sat down and chewed on! Nice. Rocky always gets treated special by me when Chance is around because Chance just TAKES his special treatment!

Alicia H ~ Stepmom and Dogmom!

rattagan's mom

Rat-A-Tat-Tat

10/08/2008 11:56 AM
I've had my oldest rattie Rattagan since he was 8 weeks, he's almost 12 years old now. He had been the only dog for 10 1/2 years. Then we got Cameo, 11 weeks old, and she so wanted to play with him, but he had never had that and then a week after Cameo came home he had to have LP surgery on his left rear leg. She had to be taught to leave him alone and seemed to learn it much faster after Phil built a playpen for her to be in while Ratty had to be walked on leash for 2 weeks to go potty, even in the fenced yard. Then when he approached the pen and she would lunge to play with him he didn't have to try to get away. He would growl at her and she would leave him alone for awhile. Cameo was about 6 months old when we let her be with Ratty loose. He tried so hard to play with her but couldn't with his legs. He had been taught the EASY commmand as a pup and if it looked like he was going to bite her or hurt her we could say "EASY" and he would leave her alone. Finally he was healed enough to run with her but she would pounce him and he would go after her. I got tired of trying to stop it and let him handle it. He just knocked her flat and she would roll to her back, it took a few times but now she leaves him alone, period. She seems to know not to mess with the grumpy old man. Now we have 4 of our own and 1 foster dog. Ratty, Cutter and Cricket leave everyone alone for the most part and Cameo had no one but humans to play with so we got her a puppy. Now she thinks she is the Momma to the pup and takes everything Nala wants away from her. But Nala is a tenacious little one at 11 weeks old and will fight with Cameo to get it back. Cameo will be 1 year on the 24th of this month and she knows Ratty is King, she is Queen and everyone except Mommy and Daddy come after that. She is teaching the little one she is "Boss" and that is what Annie is doing. I would just teach the pup so you will be able to use the "EASY" command so that when he is bigger you can bring down the excitement with that one word. SETTLE is another good command. Hope this helps. I hope Annie continues to open up.

Janie, Ratty,Cameo,Cutter and Nala Belle's Mom Show your furbaby how much you love them brush their teeth today! It saves them pain "tomorrow." Janie L.

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