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Rat-Terrier.com
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Philo

 Terrier Terror

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| 09/26/2008 11:48 AM |
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I've had graduate studies in economics and this is still mind boogling. To have something like this come out of nowhere for us citizen's when Washington knew there were signs of problems well in advance is just not acceptable. To have to scramble like this with $700 Billion (with a B) at the 11th hour scares the pants off me (I might not be able to afford any soon). I believe in the free market and that economic forces will normally self-correct, unless something like this comes up where executives are lining their pockets at our expense.
Given the huge degree of complexity, all the finger pointing, everyone in Washington saying to do what is best for us, but not able to agree what this means, it is just so difficult to get a complete grasp of it all. If O'Rielly is scared, then so am I.
No replies necessary unless you have an urge to speakout, I'm just venting. |
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Rattie Daddy to Cameo, Nala Belle, Cutter & Rattagan Foster Dad to Cricket (aka Philo)
"Beauty such as this is a gift, and I'm often in awe of this world we've been given." Mrs Bonnie |
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SuzieRedhead

 Rat-A-Tat-Tat

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| 09/26/2008 11:54 AM |
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Phil,
I am disgusted by this entire situation. In addition to Wall Street, even before this entire mess, NY's new Gov advised NYers of what horrible financial straits NY is in... NO DUH!! As a homeowner and tax payer, and the average, middle class person who's going to have to pay for this debacle, I am sickened and disgusted and it only makes me hate politicians and politics more than before.......... |
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Sue Carello, Scotia, NY (near Albany) Ratbone Rescues Fostermom, etc... www.ratbonerescues.com Fostermom to Oh Mickey and Prince Ratbone
Who do YOU GoodSearch/GoodShop for? Go to www.goodsearch.com and type in Ratbone Rescues! |
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malta blue

 Ratastic

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| 09/26/2008 12:12 PM |
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| I am disgusted by the original Paulson plan that basically made him Der Fuhrer of the economy. |
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~rachel
"Never separate the life you live from the words you speak" ~ Paul Wellstone. |
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PamWh

 Rattitude Problem

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| 09/26/2008 12:14 PM |
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| If we hear about those d@mned executives getting million dollar plus retirement/severance packages while the lowly workers' retirement funds are bankrupt, I'm going to scream. |
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PamWh aka Bob's Mom
If your rattie ain't happy, ain't nobody happy! |
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braeli_bryson

 Terrier Terror

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| 09/26/2008 12:18 PM |
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| i am not into politics, the stock marlket or any of it to be honest but when something like this arises, being a ne whome owner and abrely making ends meet its scary as heck!!! my bro used to work for merril lynch when enron went down... and they froze all their assets so no one got raises or bonuses for years that he was there until he left... he got promoted 6 times with no pay raise at 65k / year... and the kicker was that the high execs wher emaking hundreds of thousands and bonuses near 3 figures annually!!!! but the lil guys couldnt get a dollar!!!! thats when i knew we were in trouble... then last year with housing market... i fear that this is what we will be living through the next 5-10 years easy... it wont self correct or be corrected for sometime... my wife and i am scared sh*tless! |
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"No one knows YOU better than YOU!"
gianni_mahopac, ny bryson: pearl tri color | braeli: chocolate tri color.
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buttonbutt

Newbie

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| 09/26/2008 1:00 PM |
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It's scaring us all S*%tless. I heard many were withdrawing funds out of money market accounts already. I've thought about doing that myself! But I don't want to add fuel to the fire by doing so. I heard the bail-out package may include something like FDIC insurance for money market accounts, too, but I've only heard that utterred one time this week, so really not sure.
My husband's life insurance policy is with AIG, so we're certainly not feeling real good about any of this. I think until the Feds quit bailing out businesses from their bad business practices, this just ain't gonna stop, folks. I almost wanted to cheer when Pat Buchanon said that on some economics show on TV late last night. And then the CEO's quickly retire with multi-million dollar retirement funds to further rape the business, the taxpayers and flaunt it in the face of the judicial system? Sorry, but the Ken Lay's of the world need to be stopped and stopped right now!!! You can't tell me they got to the top being stupid! They know exactly what has been going on in their companies, whether they condone it or not! These poor business practices spell disaster for the nation's economy everytime it happens.
But it's kinda like raising kids and dogs, really. If you keep letting things go on as they have with no "punishment" or legal consequences. the behaviors (practices) will not be eliminated. If you keep giving Johnny more allowance when he has spent all of his unwisely, he will NEVER learn to budget and make it last until next month!!! Businesses, through lack of consequences, have learned the FEDS will bail them out every time! If we let these crooks keep calling all the shots, then who is the dumb one in this picture? |
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Ski

 Ratastic

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| 09/26/2008 1:27 PM |
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It is very scary, and frustrating. The government should never have forced banks to lend money to people who wouldn't be able to pay it back, under the guise of making home ownership available to everyone, and then calling them predatory lenders when the bill can't be paid. They may have had good intentions, but it's not the governments job to tell banks how to do their business. I have no problem with CEO salaries, if the stockholders let the board of directors get away with that bs, then they deserve their fate. What I do have a big problem with is the government bailing out financial institutions that took big risks, and got burned. As Peggy said, if there are no consequences, then they will never have to be responsible (and they won't be), and the taxpayers will get screwed again. |
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buttonbutt

Newbie

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| 09/26/2008 4:51 PM |
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| I heard Wachovia is talking a merger with CitiGroup today. Ugh. We have a huge CD with Wachovia and sadly it doesn't mature until July 09 unless I want to take a stiff penalty on a cash out. Hope they are not floundering, too! All this bank instability, buy outs, and mergers is really starting to make me nervous. And if AIG can buckled, will Aetna Life Insurance be next? They carry my Long Term Care policy. But I read somewhere on the net the other day they are the strongest insurance company in the nation right now. I sure HOPE that's true. I just THOUGHT my retirement was secure. Very scary indeed! |
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Pam&Maggie

 Ratastic

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| 09/26/2008 7:45 PM |
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| This all stems from greed. Greed of the Bankers wanting to grab all the cash they can while they are deregulated and greed of people wantng to buy things outside of their means. Unfortunately those that bought out of their means don't have the power to make our government pay them 700 billion dollars, but the bankers do. Banksers are hardly going to get a slap on the hand for their greed and thievery. They are robbing the citizens of this country just like common criminals but these guys won't serve time. They will get millions of dollars in severence pay. I would love to be all for less government involvement in business but things like this just prove to me that especially financialinsitutions cannot go without someone watching their every move. Yes, that might be socialistic in thought, but paying company after company money because they screwed up and screwed us over isn't? UGH! |
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The Rat Patrol Pam, Maggie, Kidd Roo, Nitro and Rudy Ratbones Rescue Volunteer Ratbonerescues.com |
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danbenau

 Rat-A-Tat-Tat

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| 09/26/2008 8:10 PM |
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| It's ironic. 18 months ago, I was taking an ethics course. My final project was CEO overpay in both the for-profit and nonprofit sector. Too many boards of directors hired CEOs who had covered a limited situation and had been made stars because of it. So boards hired them at ridiculous terms. It's not their salaries that caused this mess, it's the ego boosts that they received by getting compensation far beyond their wants much less their needs. So they lose sight of people's lives. They won't get money from the bailout at first, but they're bound to sue for breach of contract. What happens next - who knows? |
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His name is Hendryx! He's a rat terrier! OK! |
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lynnygal

 Rat-A-Tat-Tat

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| 09/27/2008 12:34 AM |
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Yes, these are very scary times. In one day last week....the first day the market tanked we lost $8k.....just sickening. I agree with your comments that this has been coming for awhile now and no one in the industry or Washington have done anything to stop the train...... These executives making huge bonuses and big bucks just ticks me off royally! I feel very uneasy about the whole economic outlook.....and then the impending election doesn't help things either. They are all a bunch of crooks! It's like having the fox watch the henhouse....NUTS!!!! Lynn |
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--------------------- lynnygal --------------------------------- |
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Katie'sMom

 Terrier Terror

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| 09/27/2008 9:49 AM |
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| This has been coming on for years and years and years and many different administrations (and parties I might add). I believe in a free-market society and I am not happy with a tax-payer "bail out" I would prefer to see loans or some such. This is what happens when we get too much government involved in business (yes, I think this is the result of government telling mortgage companies what they had to do). The free market systems works if left alone. Now we are all in a mess. The old days (when I was coming along) when one had to had 20% down to buy a house seem like a good plan now-a-days. |
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Check out Katie Scarlett and Company, KS's new site (includes magazine): Katie Scarlett and Company
And email her at: katiescarlettorattie@gmail.com
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winnihoohoo

 Bratty Ratty

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| 09/27/2008 8:37 PM |
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Hello, Melo... |
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melo

Ratastic

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| 09/27/2008 8:40 PM |
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| hahah how can you tell I am on this one now?? |
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Nora's mommie -- www.melodybreyer-grell.com Selling CD's with 50 percent going to Ratbones!! Check it out! |
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winnihoohoo

 Bratty Ratty

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| 09/27/2008 8:43 PM |
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Posted By melo on 09/27/2008 8:40 PM
hahah how can you tell I am on this one now??

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melo

Ratastic

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| 09/27/2008 9:15 PM |
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Ok, I will weigh in on this one--this is a horrible mess and I am no genius, but I saw it comming--I don't know jack about wall street, when I saw people with very modest income get mortgages for very expensive homes I was concerned--everyone thought they would just keep growing in value and they could take equity out when needed. What I tried to say to people was, look the houses are not worth this price--then I would hear, they are worth what people will pay, then I said people do not make enought MONEY in their salary to guarantee that prices will still go up. I do not belive there is a housing "crisis". I belive that that they were to expensive and both borrow and lender are to blame. We could have gotten a house with a balloon mortgage and Andy refused--what if I do not have a job when the ballon is due-he said. We were to scared to buy a house we could not afford--how come other people were not?? Probably becasue they believed that banks would not give them a loan if they were not quailfied--many of us thought the banks were smarter than us. Well they ain't----so who is really hurt, not just the people who have houses when they should have stayed renters. The people who are hurt and the ones who earned their homes and will have to bail out the whole mess. That said if it were a loan to the banks with the taxpayers getting credit when there is a recovery we might be able to make out ok, as distasteful as the bail out should be It should be a loan as others have said on this thread--And the Ceo's should hang from tree's--or at least give the money back I used to an Ayn Rand capitalist--but I fear that the market will not correct on its own---because there is no credit-- My husband said they should all go to Git-Mo mel |
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Nora's mommie -- www.melodybreyer-grell.com Selling CD's with 50 percent going to Ratbones!! Check it out! |
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winnihoohoo

 Bratty Ratty

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| 09/27/2008 10:19 PM |
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Hello mphillips.... |
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singingpilgrim

 Ratastic

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| 09/28/2008 12:27 AM |
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Melo, I know just what you're talking about with overpriced homes. We have a four bedroom, two bath, on three acres. It's about fifty years old and is valued at about 100,000 in this area. Down the road they are selling three bedroom one and a half bath new houses on maybe a quarter acre for 250,000-350,000. What??? Yes, new is nice, but not that much nicer!! What it is, we're growing at a massive rate since we're one of the cheapest places to live that's not entirely in the middle of nowhere, like Wyoming or something. Because of the economy people are leaving more expensive places up north and out west and coming here. But they don't both to look at established homes or something and are buying WAY overpriced places. And probably hurting themselves a whole lot. |
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Pamela ~Sophia Abigail's Mom~ Ratbones Rescue Volunteer |
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melo

Ratastic

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| 09/28/2008 12:45 AM |
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Pam--keep your eye on it--I am curious to see if the prices come down or if people buy!!!! Unless they are wealthy the mortgage monies have dried out and I don't know that they will be handing them out to folks who don't qualify--but what do I know?---I have been tracking real estate for the last several years, it is an interest of mine--I did not get rich becasue I did not take many chances--but I did get my self one nice place in a down market that is has retained much if not all of its gains. Where do you live!!! you sound like you have a great spread ) |
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Nora's mommie -- www.melodybreyer-grell.com Selling CD's with 50 percent going to Ratbones!! Check it out! |
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Sassy'sMama

Firehouse Big Dog

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| 09/29/2008 11:48 AM |
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I am scared too.... Since I work in the automotive industry things are slowing down.. Oct 1st layoff's will begin out on the plant floor, they have already downsized the office salary people.. I have almost 4 years at the plant so I'm hoping I won't get it just yet... |
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~~Jan~~ Mama to Sassy
www.marykay.com/janetkimberlin (free shipping) |
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melo

Ratastic

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| 09/29/2008 3:21 PM |
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Well, Jan I wish you the best--hope you keep your job----I hope everyone keeps thier jobs except my nieghbors. I live close to wall street and we have Youths in thier 20's paying 4000 a month rent for the privlege of living in this city. This city used to be a great place filled with rich, poor and middle class people artist musicians teachers business people, but it has been culterally devestated by the past 10 years of "fake growth".....I live in the hood where the Play "RENT" was based on - were all the struggling artists lived in cold water flats. Now a one bedroom apartment on avenue a is asking 950.000 dollars---- one bed for like a million to buy-- I hope that it all crashes and NYC becomes raw again. The people I do feel bad for are the middle americans who did not ask for this problem and might suffer the most |
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Nora's mommie -- www.melodybreyer-grell.com Selling CD's with 50 percent going to Ratbones!! Check it out! |
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erniebenernie

 Bratty Ratty

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| 09/29/2008 5:23 PM |
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Years ago, my husband and I went to the our credit union to get a loan. We were told how much we were eligible for. Our mouths dropped. We didn't take anything near what they mentioned, we took only a loan of what we needed. I remember the conversation we had on the way home. What the Heck ! No wonder people are living beyond their means. No wonder credit cards are maxed out. We're being allowed to do it and no one said otherwise. |
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Vicki
~*~I'd rather own an inch of a rat terrier then a mile of a pedigree~*~
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singingpilgrim

 Ratastic

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| 09/30/2008 12:19 AM |
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I live in Spartanburg county, upstate South Carolina. We're one of the only places in the US where there are still homes selling, from what I've heard... but it's because people who can't afford to live elsewhere are moving here, not because it's booming or anything. We moved here in the early 90s when NJ was having it's own private recession. Our house (like I said, 4 bdrm, 2 bth, 3 acres-- one and half lawn, one and a half woods with a creek. It's a ranch from the fifties) was only 65,000 then. Like I said, it's probably be about 100,000 now. It'd be more if we were better at upkeep... lol.... but still, you can find houses for well under 50,000 here. I look through real estate guides for fun a lot. You can get really decent homes for under 100,000, livable for under 50,000, and there are even fixer uppers for under 25,000. It's a really inexpensive place to live... and even though there's not a lot of jobs, it's not the complete middle of nowhere because it's next to Greenville, which is the second biggest city in the state. |
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Pamela ~Sophia Abigail's Mom~ Ratbones Rescue Volunteer |
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melo

Ratastic

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| 09/30/2008 12:31 AM |
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wow that sounds tempting--maybe even as an escape place, where nora could run free--I would be thrilled with one acre and a 2 bed 1.5 bath near water ) We will see how this economy plays out---The news today is disturbing, but maybe we can all pull ourselves out of it if wall street can be accountable--what might be an oxy moron though ) |
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Nora's mommie -- www.melodybreyer-grell.com Selling CD's with 50 percent going to Ratbones!! Check it out! |
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melo

Ratastic

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| 09/30/2008 12:33 AM |
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Ps Vickie, I everyone did what you did, we would have a very strong country--IMO of course |
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Nora's mommie -- www.melodybreyer-grell.com Selling CD's with 50 percent going to Ratbones!! Check it out! |
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Pam&Maggie

 Ratastic

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| 09/30/2008 12:44 AM |
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okay did anyone else get that email where instead of giving the 700 billion to wall street they distributed it to every american over the age of 18? I'm sure the math needs to be checked but they said it would give about 360k to every adult and the us govt would get 100 or more k per person in tax from that income. SP,ehow it worked out to be 180k per adult us citizen. I think that would surely bolster the economy. Everyone could payoff things and it would help with people over mirtgaged and help people buy homes who couldn't even with slack credit. It'll never happen though. We get 1k, the bankers with millions and billiosn get more millions and billions. |
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The Rat Patrol Pam, Maggie, Kidd Roo, Nitro and Rudy Ratbones Rescue Volunteer Ratbonerescues.com |
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buttonbutt

Newbie

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| 10/01/2008 9:36 AM |
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Well, all I can say is the "balloon" was bound to pop one day. Ever since the Great Depression, and the advent of "CREDIT", America has been enjoying a sort of "false prosperity". With the support of the feds, people have been told EVERYONE should be able to buy a house, a car, a college education, whatever...............by borrowing. CREDIT, CREDIT, CREDIT. Well not everyone can afford to do this...........but do it anyway! Credit is a very fragile teeter-totter and it doesn't take much of a tip to tumble everything to the ground: higher gas, higher food, poor business earnings, or loss of a job.
The S & L fiasco in the 80's, Enron's crooked dealings in the 90's and now the current banking incompetence is just frosting on a cake that has been baking for half a century! I feel even if Congress "patches" this mess out (assuming legislators can be set politics aside long enough to address the needs of the nation and not a political party, which clearly Nancy Pelosi isn't willing to do), it will just keep happening. I can't believe the "pork barrels " they were trying to attach to this failed crisis bill! They were trying to earmark 20% of the total to go to some organization (sorry I forgot the name they gave this morning) that basically funds a lot of Democratic Party needs. I don't think the House or Nancy Pelosi wanted the public to find out 20% of their $700 mil was going to THAT!!! If the majority party can't draft a bill that can't get passed, all I can say is they AIN'T TRYING VERY HARD!!!!! Yet if the fed doesn't bail, the outlook is basically another great depression that could last for YEARS!!
Did we learn NOTHING from the S & L fiasco or from Enron? Clearly not! Yet if the fed doesn't bail this time, the outlook is basically another great depression! And it could last for YEARS folks!!
Looks pretty bleak to me. Glen Beck on his financial show yesterday said basically all people can do right now is to try to pay off all their debt and start living frugally like their parents did, working hard and SAVING to buy things, not buy them on credit! And he suggested not eating out so much and considering mowing your OWN grass. That all made sense to me. Geez, we spend a lot eating out. No telling how much I could save a year just cutting out doing that except for special occasions. |
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buttonbutt

Newbie

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| 10/01/2008 9:39 AM |
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| Sorry I repeated two sentences. Meant to cut paste and accidentally did a copy/paste. |
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MindiK

 Ratterific

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| 10/01/2008 10:05 AM |
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The husband and I are definitely worried. Our savings and checking accounts are with our local Citibank, and we don't feel safe at all after they took over Wachovia. I read online that Wachovia has somewhere in the area of $40 billion in bad investments/debt, and Citibank's "plan" will only let them recoup $10 billion of that loss. What about the other $30-some odd billion? We're taking our money out of Citibank and moving it to a local, non-national chain bank. I know the money would be protected (we don't have anywhere CLOSE to the FDIC insured cap in there), but it would be an enormous pain in the backside NOT having any money while we wait for everything to clear up. The local Citibank doesn't make the same big, stupid loans it's larger corporate counterparts do, but the business that owns it DOES. The little local bank has fewer assets but doesn't make those types of loans either. Seems to me the little bank is safer. |
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DaisysMom

 Moderator

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| 10/01/2008 11:11 AM |
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I usually avoid these discussions, but this a pretty BIG event in our country right now. There is so much going on here, but I am in agreement with much of what Peggy said. (BTW, Peggy, the group you might be thinking of which would've gotten the 20% is ACORN, I believe). Quite a few years ago, the government began the process whereby it FORCED with threats of "punishment" the banking and loaning institutions to loan money to those that clearly could not afford it, because is made things look good to be able to say, "See how much home ownership has increased! Especially in the inner city!!! What prosperity, what a boon, we are wonderful!!!!" As pointed out above, however, this is all a smoke-and-mirrors game that eventually was going to crumble. This is another reason why some in Washington are rushing, rushing, rushing...to forego serious in-depth inquiries into what went wrong. |
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Tracey - Darlin' Daisy's Mom
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