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NellBell25

Ratastic

05/16/2007 11:10 AM
Well, not really a pup. We adopted Yogi from a rescue 2 months a go. He's an 8 year old rat terrier and is my first dog. They told us he gets along well with kids and other dogs which was important to me. Unfortunately he gets along with neither. Well that's not exactly true, he's fine if they ignore him and he is content ignoring them. No lunging, barking, etc. But he snaps when other animals get close to him to sniff him, and last night he snapped at a friend's child when she was petting him. I take full responsibility for this, one moment they were snuggling, he rolled over on his back for belly rubs so I relaxed and then my friend walked up behind us and he was startled and snapped at her face, did not make contact but he will not be allowed around children, now. I believe he's a fear biter. And I want to know if you think I should take him to a behavioral trainer or just try to keep him away from kids and other dogs (we live next to a park and he does see other dogs there but I pick him up if there is an off-leash dog that is running towards him because he will snap). What can they do about a not exactly aggressive but very defensive dog? My family thinks I should just keep him away from what he's afraid of and that a lot of little dogs are like this, but I have higher aspirations for the little guy, I want him to be able to tolerate being in close proximity with other animals and children, though I will never trust him with kids again. Any advice/opions would be greatly appreciated! Or if anyone has experienced something similar I'd be grateful if you'd share your stories.

NellBell25

Ratastic

05/16/2007 11:11 AM
Oops I realized this is in the wrong forum, sorry!

DaisysMom

Moderator
<b>Moderator</b>

05/16/2007 11:18 AM
First: Welcome to you and Yogi!!! Bless you for not only rescuing a rattie, but an older one, and giving him a good forever home I don't know that I have any specific answers for you, but I do think that an animal behaviorist/trainer is a great idea if it's available to you. Some of them do fantastic work and it sounds like Yogi would benefit from one greatly. I think that is probably your #1 way of getting him to be the happiest, most well-adjusted dog he can be. !!! Our training moderator, Nora, is absent for a little while due to a death in her family, but I'm sure she will reply as well as soon as she can! Welcome, again, and please post often - you'll find that usually, you get a lot of very quick replies. This is the best site for rattie information, support, friendship and overall fun BTW: We'd love to see some pics of Yogi. (p.s.: I will move this to the training forum thread)

Tracey - Darlin' Daisy's Mom

Russ' Pal

Rat-A-Tat-Tat

05/16/2007 11:28 AM
Please give a trainer a try. He's still new to your home- which contributes to his skittishness. I think snapping is different from biting. Snapping is a warning, and I think a trainer could work on this. As for the dog park, it is not uncommon for a dog on a leash to snap at an off leash dog that approaches. That does not mean he is unfriendly to other dogs. I think he just needs a little time, training and patience.

-Sarah, pal to Russ & Peca

NellBell25

Ratastic

05/16/2007 11:29 AM
Thank you for the reply and moving the post. I am having trouble getting a pic loaded in the avatar, it says upload complete but nothing shows up, I'll keep workign on that but I did put a pic of him in my profile that seems to be working... I'm not sure if he's a mix or not, he looks a little different then most ratty's I've seen, with floppy ears and a wider face.

Morgan

Bella Belle

05/16/2007 11:32 AM
Aww, he's cute. Hard to tell, but he looks like a rattie. Some of our ratties have floppy ears too.

-Morgan (Bella's Mommy)

JenMax

Firehouse Big Dog

05/16/2007 11:32 AM
Welcome to you & Yogi! Good for you rescuing an older rattie I love his button ears

Jenny - Max's sister

DaisysMom

Moderator
<b>Moderator</b>

05/16/2007 11:34 AM
Try hiting the refresh button after getting the upload complete message. I see his pic, if he's a mix, there's definitely A LOT of rattie in him. Buttoned ears are standard to ratties along with erect and tipped ears. There are members here whose ratties have buttoned ears Look forward to seeing more

Tracey - Darlin' Daisy's Mom

swatson6

Attention Starved

05/16/2007 11:42 AM
I can't add much to what others have said. Just wanted to say welcome to the site and good luck with the little guy. Sounds like he found a good, dedicated home!

Sarah Mom to Jack, Jeter and foster mom to Teagan

mama2jerry

Ratastic

05/16/2007 11:45 AM
Welcome to the site! We are looking forward to getting to know you and Yogi. He's a cutie!

Sarah ....and mama to Darby too!

Russ' Pal

Rat-A-Tat-Tat

05/16/2007 11:45 AM
One more thing- dogs are real quick to pick up on when people are nervous. You said he's your first dog, I wonder if maybe you are are a little nervous when he's around other dogs and he picks up on that? I'm not saying you are doing anything wrong, it's just that we sometimes send signals to our dogs without even realizing it. It would be good for both of you to go to at least a basic obedience training class.

-Sarah, pal to Russ & Peca

NellBell25

Ratastic

05/16/2007 12:13 PM
Wow, thanks for all the replies! I have actually thought about that, Russ's pal, that he senses when I'm nervous. I noticed this because we took him over to a friend's house who has two dogs, one small one big and I had drank a glass of wine and was more relaxed then normal when my fiance brought Yogi over. We'd talk to the owner's beforehand and were going to try the walking them by each other on leashes thing that I'd read about to try to socialize dogs. We never got that far because he did fine, we were both there for the meet and greet and we were talking to him and petting him as he met the other dogs. After they sniffed him they all left each other alone after that... So sometimes I think I'm overreacting but then like after last night snapping at the child I think again.

Sassy'sMama

Feisty

05/16/2007 12:35 PM
Welcome to you and Yogi... I have an adopted Rattie as well as one I raised from a pup.. Unfortunatly we have no clue what their lives were like before us... We just have to do our best to let them know they are loved and safe now.. There is a lot of great people here and will help you along your way..

~~Jan~~ Mama to Sassy www.marykay.com/janetkimberlin (free shipping)

Wrangler

Newbie

05/25/2007 12:25 AM
Congratulations on your new adoption; I was wondering how things are going with Yogi? I'm new to this site, and I see you've gotten lots of great advice to try, so I wanted to say how admirable it is to take on an older dog. I've got two ratties, but I also have two labs that are older, 10 and 12 years. It's a big deal to take on an older dog. The world needs more kind hearts like yours! This is a great site, and I look forward to figuring out how to post pictures of my girls very soon! Oh, and just so you know, I have finally figured out that my rattie girls have finally gotten me trained the way they want me...I suspect it's been that way for awhile now. They just let me think I'm in charge!

NellBell25

Ratastic

05/25/2007 10:43 AM
Things are going great with Yogi, thanks for asking. He really hasn't been in any predicaments lately where he would be snippy because I haven't brought him back over to my friends that has the child, and he's not been around other dogs lately, either... We had a very expensive vet visit awhile back that wiped me out but I am hoping to take him to a behaviorist in July so we can work on his training. He's such a joy to have around, I look foward to coming home every day after work and thank goodness for holiday weekends, I get to spend 3 whole days with him and am thrilled to death! Posting pics is easy but getting them to actually work is the hard part... I still can't put an avatar pic up, I tried about 5 times yesterday!

MilliesMom

Rattie

05/25/2007 12:10 PM
Hey all. . .I'm new here too. Proud mama of a 3 year old Rattie/Beagle mix named Millie that I adopted last October. She sounds a little like Yogi. And all I can say is that she has gotten a lot better as she's settled in. I too used to worry about her around my friends child, but she's gotten a lot better as time has gone on. I always got the feeling she was unsure as to how I was going to handle the situation and she had to take over in case I didn't protect her. Shoot first ask questions later type of thing. She also has a tendency to snap at dogs in the park if they get too close or in her face. She's getting better and a lot has to do w/ the other dog, too. Some dogs just have a habit of invading other dogs' space. Millie just needs her space and she's fine. I work around her little "terrier ways" sometimes and that helps. Once you get to the point where you can read and understand Yogi's personality you'll feel a lot more confident in his reactions.

Russ' Pal

Rat-A-Tat-Tat

05/25/2007 12:38 PM
Millie is adorable! Can't wait to see more pics! welcome to the site. NellBell, I think they got the Avatar issue ironed out last night, give it another shot.

-Sarah, pal to Russ & Peca

Wrangler

Newbie

05/25/2007 1:02 PM
Great to hear you're both adjusting. "snippy" is an excellent description, and I've found that my girls are sooooooo different in personality from my labs. Shelby who is now 4 years old, was a nightmare, even as a pup. I had to wrangle her to even trim her nails! Sometimes it would work to have my daughter distract her with a treat, but other times, I would have to wrap her in towel to keep her from biting me. She doesn't do it anymore, but she would certainly like too! They very much share the personality of a cat, very aloof at times and finicky. Roxy, on the other hand, doesn't share the same rattie snootiness as Shelby. She is part Fox Terrier, and I swear she thinks she's a lab! She won't talk at all, while Shelby can't contain herself and actually squeals when her "Dad" gets home! It's quite hilarious, though a bit noisy. Yogi is lucky to have a mom like you, and I've found that sometimes the best cure for some ailments is another Rattie...if nothing else, it sure livens up the household!!!! I'll work on those photos...do you think I dare include the labs on this site? (LOL)

Russ' Pal

Rat-A-Tat-Tat

05/25/2007 1:08 PM
Wrangler, by all means, include the Labs. Rattie sibblings are most welcome!

-Sarah, pal to Russ & Peca

NellBell25

Ratastic

05/25/2007 1:09 PM
Sarah, I got it working (as you can see!) by putting jpg instead of JPG at the end. YAY! Millie really is adorable and sounds a lot like my Yogi. I guess it's only been two months and so it is hard to predict what he's going to do because I don't know him as well as I will in another few months. Wrangler I would LOVE to have another rattie and I will someday, I do need a bigger place though. I feel guilty about how small our house is and I think any other dog would go nuts but adopting a senior was a good idea for us because he doesn't make use of space, anyway when he does have it. He's low key and loves to just snuggle in bed and sprawl out on the couch and his two daily walks at the park we live next to seem to be enough... I can't wait to move (next year, hopefully!) into something bigger and I'm DEFINITELY going to be looking at adopting another pup, hopefully rattie!

NellBell25

Ratastic

05/25/2007 1:10 PM
Btw, yes include the labs! I think all of us here love ALL dogs, even if we are particularly fond of ratties.

mama2jerry

Ratastic

05/25/2007 2:27 PM
MilliesMom- I have a rattie/beagle mix too! Her name is Darby. We adopted her from a shelter at the beginning of May. Welcome to the site! Millie is darling!

Sarah ....and mama to Darby too!

rattytatty

Newbie

05/25/2007 2:56 PM
I'm sorry I'm just now seeing this.... I did not look in this forum for any training posts. Has the situation improved any since you first submitted this thread? If Yogi has a bad habit of snapping at people, especially children, then you should first understand what this behavior means and why your dog may be doing it. Snapping is usually thought of as being a signal that dogs use to drive other dogs or people away, without biting them or inflicting serious injury. Dogs use snapping as a form of communication with people and other dogs. Dogs will usually not snap at adults to, whom they are subordinate. And with adults who are snapped at, it is usually only their hands that are at risk. With children, however, snapping can be dangerous, because a child's face is often level with the dog's head. The normal behaviors of children often present problems for dogs, and vice versa. Children move with quick, jerky movements, have high-pitched voices, and they often run rather than walk. All of these behaviors somewhat resemble the behavior of animals that dogs prey upon. Did you know that almost all play behaviors in the dog are based on predatory behavior? Consequently dogs often react to these behaviors by chasing the children, nipping at their heels, jumping up at them, even trying to knock them down. While all the behaviors described are normal play behaviors for both kids and dogs, they can result in problems. Both your children and your dog will need lots of help and supervision from you so they can all learn how to behave around one another. An approach that is NOT helpful is to do nothing but punish the dog for his behavior. If he learns that being around children always results in "bad things" happening to him, he may become defensive in their presence. At first, children may need to play quietly around the dog until he becomes more comfortable and calm and the children have gained more control over the dog. The dog must also learn that certain behaviors on his part are unacceptable, but he must also be taught what behaviors are the right ones. An obedience class may be helpful. Children often want to hug the dog around the neck. The dog may view this as a threatening gesture rather than an affectionate one. In reaction, a dog may growl, snap or bite. To reduce such risks, a child should pet the dog from underneath his chin rather than hugging him or reaching over his head, should not stare at or look him directly in the eye, and should turn the side of her body toward the dog rather than facing him. Dogs can be possessive about their food, toys, and space. Although it is normal for a dog to growl or snap to protect these items, it is NEVER acceptable. At the same time, children need to learn to respect their dog as a living creature that is not to be teased or purposefully hurt, and that needs time to himself. He is not a plaything that should always be available to them. If Yogi is continuing to growl or snap at children for any reason, the situation needs IMMEDIATE attention. Just punishing the dog is likely to make matters worse. You are handicapped because you probably don't know what Yogi's history is. He may have come from an environment where children picked on him... or other dogs bullied him. If this is something that has gone on for several years (since he's 8 years old)... you may have a real difficulty training it out of him. Invest a few dollars in consulting with a dog behaviorist/trainer... have the dog evaluated... and then make your decision. I wish you luck, and I certainly do hope everything turns out successfully !

NellBell25

Ratastic

05/25/2007 3:54 PM
Thanks Nora, your post was very informative and I appreciate you taking the time to respond. He's not gotten any better or worse as he's not been around any children since this happened. The only child I know is my friend's 5 year old daughter, I see her every couple weeks. He is fine with being pet anywhere on his body by her, it was as mentioned, her getting down with her face into his that he didn't like. He doesn't chase and I wish he would growl almost because then I would've had some warning he was unhappy. It scared me that he didn't give any warning and even seemd to enjoy her affections prior to his snap. I am definitely willing to invest in training, he's not an aggressive dog, he's very defensive though. We walk on a trail and if another dog walks by he sits quietly while we wait for them to pass. It's like his problems are bad enough for me to be concerned about but not bad enough to where everyone in my personal life has told me I need to do something about it, (most have said they think he's just a grumpy old boy and probably always will be, even my friend wasn't that concerned) which is why I haven't taken him yet, so I wanted to get some more opinions from more dog-oriented people such as yourself. What I know about his history is that he probably has never been around children. He lived with an elderly woman for 8 years until she died, then he went to rescue for 2 months and then to me. I think he just wasn't socialized much and lived a very quiet, sheltered life with her (I could be way off base, though). Thanks again for replying, I am glad you think it would be worth a shot taking him to a trainer. I love your quote, btw!

rattytatty

Newbie

05/25/2007 7:07 PM
NellBell25 ....young children often bring their face into the dog’s intimate space, creating a threat to the dog. Dogs bite children in the face and neck, in part, because that’s how dogs learn dominance behavior with each other. Many dogs will tolerate being pet, stroked all over their body... but not in the facial area.

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