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Subject: Potty Traing suggestions/issues :no.sleep: HELP

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fastshark

05/02/2007 8:46 AM
Male: Toby 4 months old Female: Roxy 4 months old I know they are still puppies and might need a bit more time to develop there bladder, but isnt there anything to help with "going" in the crate? We both work full-time and leave them in the crate while we are away. Crates are located in the kitchen (titled area), out of sight to out other dogs that stay outside. I know asking them to hold it while we are at work is out of the question at this point in time, but during the night is the current issue at hand. Both crates are next to each other, I tried to place a towel over the crates to create a den effect, but the female didn't like it and continued to bark until it was removed. Even after waiting an hour or so to see if she'd get use to it...no go. Kitchen is dark other than stove light, to supply alittle bit of lighting for them. Now onto the issues: While in the crate Female: Barks/whines AFTER she goes in her crate A few days ago, it went from "going" every 3-4 hours to every 2 hours now during the night. Like her bladder got smaller :dontknow: Male: Doesnt whine/bark or anything, just goes and then cleans up his #2 him-self. At first we thought he waws just holding it, but then noticed a few dryed markings to note that in fact he did do a #2. As well as his breathe wasn't soo plesent. During the night when she whines/barks, we get up and take them out, but she at this point has already went #1/#2 and just wants to play. He will mostly go #1/#2 like clockwork when he is taken out. The crate's we are using were the smallest they had for a "small dog", it measures about 1 foot wide and 2.5 to 3feet deep. A divider was included, but we have not installed them....good idea to? As to my understanding a divider is used to make the area smaller and that they dont "like to" soil where they sleep. I just think using the divider would make the need for MORE baths. As currently we are giving them a bath when we get home (due to #1/#2 on there coats) and then sometimes upto 2 times each during the night. This is starting to become an issue for both me and my wife, since we are not getting enough sleep at night. I know it's a learning process...but when will it start to get better? We dont spank them for going #1/#2 in the kitchen while they are out, rather in a stern voice (not yelling) "No, bad " "bad ". I know they understand we are not pleased with them when we speaking in this fashioin, as the females ears lay back (normally upright position), and the male tail get tucked. I was thinking to move the crates into our bedroom and see if this might assist in the crating process, but then I thought that they might get used to sleeping in the room with us and then whine/bark when we goto move them back into the kitchen for night sleeping. Gates To section of the kitchen from the rest of the house, we first used boxes (just moved into a NEW house) that have yet to be unpacked. There is 4 points that need to be blocked off; to nook; to hallway; to upstairs; to formal dining area. The boxes was a working solution, but my wife had an issue with always needing to climb over them to get into the kitchen (I am taller and it wasn't such an issue for me). So we opted to get those kid fences. This is a good solution, however, as of recent the female has started to escape from the kitchen. Then she make a b-line for the lani door to visit our other dogs; which drives them crazy (all 4 are no best of "friends" yet..lol). The gate has a honeycomb pattern which she jumps up, gets a footing and then makes her escape. Are RT's known climbers? I think i'm going to be adding a sheet of lexan or plexi to the gate to cover the honeycomb holes. Any suggestions/tips/hint/ideas....would be GREAT.

"If it's plugges in, fastshark supports it" -General.Manager

Mitzy's Mom

PAWesome

05/02/2007 9:20 AM
Welcome! I'm going to leave the "potty/crate" issues for those that have crate trained, but I did want to tell you that yes, ratties climb! Even my shortie would jump over a baby gate when still a puppy. I'm sure it's hard with 2 pups to housetrain at once and I sympathize with your lack of sleep. Hang in there, it will get better. We've got some people here who can give you great advice.

Mary Beth, mom to the Lollipop Kids Georgia Foster Mom, New Rattitude Check out our ratties at www.newrattitude.org

DaisysMom

Moderator
<b>Moderator</b>

05/02/2007 9:39 AM
Wow!!! Two puppies equal twice the work, but it can be done. First: Under the training forum is an EXCELLENT post from Nora on crate training. DO use the dividers! To properly crate train a pup the crate should only allow enough room for the pup to turn around and lie down comfortably, anymore than that and they will use one part for pottying and another part for sleeping. The guidelines for how long a pup can generally hold his/her bladder and/or bowel movements is equal to one hour for every month of age PLUS one hour, so at 4 months of age, your pups should be able to "hold it" for 5 hours. This will, of course, depend on when they were last fed/allowed to drink and having taking them outside and made sure they went potty. Read the thread on crate training, it is very detailed. Follow the advice to the letter and you should see a vast improvement. I did crate my Daisy at night in our bedroom, but always intended for her to eventually sleep with us or our daughter once she was reliable to hold it overnight, which she now does and has since about 7 or 8 mos. of age. Good luck and if you have additional questions or need further clarification on anything you read, please do not hesitate to ask

Tracey - Darlin' Daisy's Mom

fastshark

05/02/2007 10:09 AM
Thanks for the prompt reply. I didn't find such crate training thread even via a search. I did read a thread about a Server crash...:dontknow: /me awaits to read, re-read, re-read again, print it out, memorize it, and follow it to the word. I would think it'd be a sticky

"If it's plugges in, fastshark supports it" -General.Manager

rattytatty

Newbie

05/02/2007 11:10 AM
How old are your dogs and how long each day are you and spouse gone? Be sure to understand the difference between temporarily confining your dog to a crate and long term confinement when you are not home. The major purpose of confinement when you are not home is to restrict mistakes to a small protected area. The purpose of crate training is quite the opposite. Short term confinement to a crate is intended to inhibit your dog from eliminating when confined, so that he/she will want to eliminate when released from confinement and taken to an appropriate area. Crate training also helps teach your dog to have bladder and bowel control. Instead of going whenever she feels like it, she learns to hold it and go at convenient scheduled times. I would suggest for the time-being to take all bedding out of the crates, as dogs simply don't like laying in their own urine. It might help. It's highly uncommon for a dog to urinate and then willingly lay in it. Also, try feeding a dry dogfood. Be as observant as you can. You'll start to notice little signs if you really focus on the body language. But they, or more correctly you, will make mistakes. Don't scold them for a mistake unless you catch them in the act. Make sure the dogs get LOTS of exercise while NOT in their crates. Leaving them alone in their crates all day and all night is a lot... interact with them and exercise with them as much as you can. This will help tire them out and they will be less likely to urinate.

fastshark

05/02/2007 12:12 PM
Posted By rattytatty on 05/02/2007 11:10 AM How old are your dogs and how long each day are you and spouse gone? Be sure to understand the difference between temporarily confining your dog to a crate and long term confinement when you are not home. The major purpose of confinement when you are not home is to restrict mistakes to a small protected area. The purpose of crate training is quite the opposite. Short term confinement to a crate is intended to inhibit your dog from eliminating when confined, so that he/she will want to eliminate when released from confinement and taken to an appropriate area. Crate training also helps teach your dog to have bladder and bowel control. Instead of going whenever she feels like it, she learns to hold it and go at convenient scheduled times. I would suggest for the time-being to take all bedding out of the crates, as dogs simply don't like laying in their own urine. It might help. It's highly uncommon for a dog to urinate and then willingly lay in it. Also, try feeding a dry dogfood. Be as observant as you can. You'll start to notice little signs if you really focus on the body language. But they, or more correctly you, will make mistakes. Don't scold them for a mistake unless you catch them in the act. Make sure the dogs get LOTS of exercise while NOT in their crates. Leaving them alone in their crates all day and all night is a lot... interact with them and exercise with them as much as you can. This will help tire them out and they will be less likely to urinate. Both RT's are 4 months old. The female is a few days older. We are gone from 7:30am until around 5:15pm. While we are at home, we only crate them while items are going in/out of the oven for apparent reasons. Other than that, they go into the crate at around 11:00pm. Then out to the bathroom at recent times of 1:30/3:00/5:45 :sigh:. Prior to leaving for work, we take them both outside to in the hopes to goto the bathroom. There is currently no bedding in the crate, as I'd assume if there was, it'd be soiled already. The male tends to #2 in a corner, but the female #2's right in the middle. When we are home, we spend about 2 hours thru out the evening playing with them with there toys. I am assuming that the male is eating his #2 so we dont see it, as he knows it's wrong.....sound logical? As I cant imagine he enjoys it. On a side note: Is it "normal" for female RT's to have alittle bit of blood in their #2 from time to time? This is the first female dog we have had. Which when the time comes, she will be fixed so not to bleed on the carpet. Same will be done to the male. I noticed that Greenies actualy hold up true to it's name; even on the way out. Maybe they are too young for Greenies? Thanks for the input.

"If it's plugges in, fastshark supports it" -General.Manager

Mitzy's Mom

PAWesome

05/02/2007 1:22 PM
The blood in the stool is not normal for a female, doesnt' have anything to do with their heat cycle. It could simply be a small tear in her heiny though...maybe from the greenie coming out? With mine I would stay out with them until they "did their business"....you might also give a treat when they actually go potty. Obviously, you don't want to stay out there long at 3 in the morning though! And yes, the male could well be eating his own poo for whatever reason. Also, you might want to check on the age to start giving greenies. I haven't given mine any since the formula for greenies change so not sure how old the pup is supposed to be.

Mary Beth, mom to the Lollipop Kids Georgia Foster Mom, New Rattitude Check out our ratties at www.newrattitude.org

fastshark

05/02/2007 3:21 PM
Reply reference to Greenies: I went to their site and tried to get a free sample and got this reply back: Thank you for requesting a FREE new Greenies® dental chew. Your dog, however, is too young for the new Greenies® dental chew as puppies under six months don't have adequate chewing abilities. Please be sure to come back once your dog is older than six months to get your FREE new Greenies® dental chew. In the meantime, we will send you a FREE Greenies® SmartBiscuit™, a once-a-day treat that brushes away tartar and plaque. The Greenies® SmartBiscuit™: Greenies SmartBiscuit™

"If it's plugges in, fastshark supports it" -General.Manager

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