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Rat-Terrier.com
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Cenire

Newbie

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| 06/30/2007 1:04 AM |
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Howdy y'all, I am a senior genetics major at Texas A&M, and a lifetime dog lover. The past few months I have been thinking of getting involved in breeding dogs, as a hobby. Of course, my interests are for the betterment of the breed; health, temperment, etc. I have been trying to decide what breed I would like to focus on, and have had my eye on rat terriers for a while.
From my research, it seems (correct me if I am wrong) this breed has a lot more variation than most breeds, which would be exciting to work with. It also seems like a very healthy breed, healthier than most anyways, probably because they are not as popular as say, labradors. I believe the popularity of that breed has pretty much ruined it, by breeders who just want to make money and do not do research on the genes of their stock, thereby fixing undesireable traits (hip dysplasia)into the breed. GRR makes me so mad. Anyway, the fact that ratties do have a lot of variation, and few health problems makes me very interested in breeding them. I have never owned one, but I can tell from reading yall's posts that they have an awesome personality to boot.
But getting to the point of this long post, I would like to start my breeding program (by that I mean acquire a momma dog) in a year or two, preferably after I am done with school. I still have a lot of research to do, and I want to be sure to pick the right dog, as well as the right stud. I was hopping y'all could point me in the right direction as far as good sources of research or how to get started. For example, I should probably try to get an adult female that has already been tested for undesireable traits and proven to throw good pups first, as opposed to starting out with a new pup? I also would like information about shows because I have not been able to find much. Sorry for the long post, I just want to be sure I do everything right, and any help would be appreciated. I have been considering this for a while, and am willing to deal with any set backs, such as not being able to find homes for pups. Also, am I allowed to make a contract with future owners that if they want to get rid of the dog they have to sell it back to me first, unless they have a forever home already picked out? Bah, so many questions, this post just keeps getting longer...
Thanks for taking the time to read this |
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BonitaKaz

 Bratty Ratty

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| 06/30/2007 1:08 AM |
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I don't think that a contract like that could exist because when you sell the dog you're giving up all your rights to it, and without some sort of consideration there really isn't anything legally tying that person to that contract. |
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*Bonita* Mom to Nibbler & Laika! |
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Sassy'sMama

Firehouse Big Dog

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| 06/30/2007 3:39 AM |
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I have been thinking of getting involved in breeding dogs, as a hobby. That statement got me.. a hobby? I can't say anything else here.. |
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~~Jan~~ Mama to Sassy
www.marykay.com/janetkimberlin (free shipping) |
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nycmom

Ratastic

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| 06/30/2007 9:06 AM |
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I'm not the most qualified to answer, but if you are considering breeding, I think there are two approaches: Hobby - you just love the breed and want to see it thrive and remain "pure". Your pups may, or may not have papers, despite being pure and may or may not have all of the desirable qualifications. For instance, I read that merle is acceptable only on the face. Professional - You invest in good stock, from a reputable breeder. You may want to get a female first, or one that is at least 1/2 year older than your male pup. You also want to ensure that your male and females are the same type (A or B) and are in the same weight-class (toy, mini, standard) and that they are registered with UKC, AKC - FSS, et al. Regardless to whether you are breeding for hobby or for profit, you have to vaccinate all of your pups, which may be costly, especially for a recent graduate. Either way, you have to have a lot of time, as puppies require more care than do kittens, in my humble opinion. And let's not forget that you really have no control over what happens to your pup. I gave a rare breed kitten to someone who SWORE that if they were unable to keep it, they would return her to me, so I could properly place her. As luck would have it, I called to check on the kitten, as I always did with rescues and they were just about to place the poor baby in a shelter and it wasn't even a no-kill shelter I am not trying to discourage you, just listing the information that runs through my own head each time I consider breeding. It's a huge responsibility, which is why I often teeter-totter on the idea of breeding. |
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Barb-in-KS

 Ratterific

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| 06/30/2007 10:31 AM |
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Welcome to the boards! You've come to the right place for beginning your research. And research is indeed the best course of action for a couple of years. During that time you might try owning a Rattie or two (spayed/neutered, of course) so that you can gain a little hands-on experience with their energy levels, quirks, and so on. If you do enough research within the world of dogs, you will find that there are already hundreds and hundreds of rat terriers or rat terrier mixes needing homes. You might want to consider rattie rescue as a hobby rather than bringing more ratties into the world. Rescue offers a variety of ways in which to help, and you will be saving canine lives. The satisfaction of that effort will probably far outweigh breeding them. As far as puppy contracts, you can contract with anyone for anything; but a contract is only as good and the parties involved. Contract enforcement can get expensive (legal fees, etc.), create heartaches, and come to naught in the end. Please continue to read, read, read; and if you can, please open your mind and heart to the big picture in the world of dogs, their numbers, and their needs. Best wishes, Barb |
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Barb in Kansas Owned by Rita Rat, 11 months old |
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Cenire

Newbie

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| 06/30/2007 3:08 PM |
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| Perhaps hobby was a bad use of words. I would take it as seriously as a professional but I don't plan on profiting from it, as a professional might. I realize better than most the cost of having a dog, much less puppies, and I forsee it being expensive and am willing to take all responsibility needed. Money will not be an issue. It is not like I am planning on having several litters a year. I think one could encourage rescuing, and be a breeder as well. I have a 9 year old shepherd right now, and I plan on rescuing another dog (most likely a rattie or rattie mix) as soon as I move into a bigger place with a yard next month. At least I want to be responsible about this and learn everything I can before I jump into it. |
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Brandy

 Firehouse Big Dog

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| 06/30/2007 5:49 PM |
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I do commend you for trying to get all the info that you possibly can before you jump into something. I agree, though, that you really need to own one of these precious treasures before you consider breeding them. Let me warn you though...once you go Rattie....you NEVER go back!!!!!!!!  |
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This is Pirate Country, we bleed Purple and Gold!!!!!
GO ECU!!! |
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Cenire

Newbie

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| 06/30/2007 7:52 PM |
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| I do plan on owning one soon, and I can't wait! In a month I should be able to get a rescue. |
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nycmom

Ratastic

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| 06/30/2007 8:15 PM |
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Posted By Cenire on 06/30/2007 3:08 PM
Perhaps hobby was a bad use of words. I would take it as seriously as a professional but I don't plan on profiting from it, as a professional might. I realize better than most the cost of having a dog, much less puppies, and I forsee it being expensive and am willing to take all responsibility needed. Money will not be an issue. It is not like I am planning on having several litters a year. I think one could encourage rescuing, and be a breeder as well. I have a 9 year old shepherd right now, and I plan on rescuing another dog (most likely a rattie or rattie mix) as soon as I move into a bigger place with a yard next month. At least I want to be responsible about this and learn everything I can before I jump into it.
Oh, there's nothing wrong with saying that you're a hobby breeder. I got my first ratty from a hobby-breeder and that little fella was a dream dog; he was in great health, had definitely been with the family (opposed to a kennel) and had the personality of a lifetime. I think the huge difference between hobby/professional is that hobby breeders may have one couple or two couples to mate, where as professionals will have several litters and often sell off their adult dogs when they are no longer able to breed them.
It's awesome that you're doing research...I think you are going to be an asset, should you decide to breed. But like someone else said, once you get a ratty, it's hard to go with another breed. I am a testament of that LOL
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crazy4ratties

 Ratastic

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| 06/30/2007 11:40 PM |
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I can only say the advice given is great and the only thing I've to add, is this: I have known some breeders who have contracts on their pups, that have limitations on them. For example, some have the new owner spray/neuter their pups when they come of age, so if they can do that, I imagine they can have them return the pup if the new owner is going to sell/give. |
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amletpumpkin

 Terrier Terror

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| 07/01/2007 8:08 AM |
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| well, from the genetics stand point (i have a degree in biology, so I can totally understand your interest in this) I think its really neat that you are wanting to do this to really better the breed and the genetics involved. A person with your background in genetics could probably breed some good quality dogs. I do recomend getting yourself a ratty soon too because you will be even more interested in the breed then! They are fantastic dogs, and it really is interesting how much variation they have. That has always intrigued me too. If i were you I would just look around in your area to find a really really good breeder and go from there. I'm sure they could help you find what you want. If you do a search you can browse breeder websites. I'm sure they won't mind talking to you about their dogs. Good Luck! |
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smoore

 Ratastic

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| 07/01/2007 9:13 AM |
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Welcome to the board. I used to breed my dogs, I have toy rat terriers. I would recommend getting a mini size rat terrier or a standard to breed. My dogs were to small to breed and they had to have c-sections, which was hard on them and very expensive. I would suggest doing some research on www.nrta.com. They have a list of registered breeders. Also on the contract that you were suggesting. I would do that. I have heard of other people doing that. They only thing I haven't heard of is people selling them back to you. Usually someone whould take the dog to a shelter rather that having to pay you to take them. So I would just suggest having them give you the dog back. |
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-Sara
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Cenire

Newbie

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| 07/01/2007 3:09 PM |
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| Thank you all for the great information. What I meant when having them sell them back to me is that I would refund them all or most of their money, to further entice them to give the dog back to me and not to a shelter, or sell it on their own to anyone that will take it. |
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nycmom

Ratastic

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| 07/01/2007 4:03 PM |
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Posted By smoore on 07/01/2007 9:13 AM
I would recommend getting a mini size rat terrier or a standard to breed. My dogs were to small to breed and they had to have c-sections, which was hard on them and very expensive.
I never thought of the c-section aspect. The female that we're getting is 3.2# at 5 months and I was shocked when I found out that she was an "only child." Now I understand why. The smaller the dog, the less they have and the more complications. I suppose that's also part of the reason why breeders charge so much for teacups. I will make sure to get my female spayed to prevent any accidents.
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Susan

Terrier Terror

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| 07/01/2007 10:49 PM |
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There are some wonderful books on dog genetics avalible! Reading the collie color genetics really helped me decide that I did not want a breed with the merle gene in it! There are so many good web sites and books on dogs and breeding and genetic diseases of dogs,, It would take a lifetime to read everything and I have been working on that for a while now. But do research, check the web (that will keep you busy every day the rest of your life), talk to other breeders (we all love to talk about our dogs!), check out shows, the UKC and AKC both have web sites for shows in your area. Talk to your vet, If you don't have a vet that will talk to you find one that will! Your vet is a breeders best reference! Your vet will be the one doing the genetic testing on your dogs. Some vets have different prices for breeders, they know it is harder to come up for cash for 16 rabies shots at once than one or two. Some vets just want your money. If there is a vet school nearby that is a great way to get regular stuff done at better prices. If your vet respects you and likes your dogs he/she will recommend you when people ask him/her where they can find a reputable breeder. Join a rat terrier club in your area! They are all over the US and it is great to have like minded people to have fun with. Again through the UKC and AkC site clubs can be found. |
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ANYTHING WORTH DOING IS WORTH OVERDOING Mom of eight, only three left at home! Pack leader to ten ratties: Maggie, Mysty, Berry, Simon, Ceecee and five puppies, Star,Sari, Bluebelle, Double stuf,and Snortie. As well as Ginger the Border Collie and a herd of turkeys! |
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Susan

Terrier Terror

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| 07/01/2007 10:51 PM |
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| PS I am a hobby breeder too. I will never break even on dog breeding I do it for the breed and for my own enjoyment. I am a perpetual student. |
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ANYTHING WORTH DOING IS WORTH OVERDOING Mom of eight, only three left at home! Pack leader to ten ratties: Maggie, Mysty, Berry, Simon, Ceecee and five puppies, Star,Sari, Bluebelle, Double stuf,and Snortie. As well as Ginger the Border Collie and a herd of turkeys! |
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Mitzy's Mom

 PAWesome

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| 07/02/2007 9:07 AM |
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Welcome! I totally understand your interest in this with your background. And "hobby" breeders can be the best as they are not interested in profit - as long as they are doing it for the betterment of the breed. You seem to understand all about the genetic testing and choosing a male and female who will not pass along any bad hereditary problems...medical or personality wise. I would suggest that you get a rattie or two and live with them for a while before breeding....only because you say you haven't owned a rattie before. That way you will have a better idea of the personality, etc. of the breed you are getting into. |
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Mary Beth, mom to the Lollipop Kids
Georgia Foster Mom, www.newrattitude.org Pics of my current fosters: http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/caradoc http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/willow http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/fiona
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PamWh

 Rattitude Problem

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| 07/02/2007 12:35 PM |
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| I think it's great that you are asking all these questions before jumping into breeding. It shows that you will be a responsible breeder, if you choose to get into it. I hope it works out for you to rescue a rattie. There is one in the Plano Animal Shelter right now. |
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PamWh aka Bob's Mom
If your rattie ain't happy, ain't nobody happy! |
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Susan

Terrier Terror

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| 07/03/2007 8:04 PM |
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| Also I used to do contracts with my Boston Terriers but the only thing that it protected was my butt. It was required in the contract that the pups be vet checked by the buyers vet within three days. If that happened I would refund the money and take the dog back if they were not satisfied with the pup. I only had that happen once. I thought that she would find some reason to bring the pup back and she did. I was glad she did too, even though she still threatened me with a lawsuit, but it wouldn't have stood. I don't use contracts anymore, I am more apt to listen to my feelings and just tell a person I am not comfortable selling them a pup and move on. Some people get kind of huffy about that but I don't care and I don't care what kind of car they drive or what their house looks like either. Some of the most abusive to animals people I have met have had plenty of money, but not soul. |
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ANYTHING WORTH DOING IS WORTH OVERDOING Mom of eight, only three left at home! Pack leader to ten ratties: Maggie, Mysty, Berry, Simon, Ceecee and five puppies, Star,Sari, Bluebelle, Double stuf,and Snortie. As well as Ginger the Border Collie and a herd of turkeys! |
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