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KlondikeCafe

Rattie

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| 05/17/2007 11:23 AM |
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Bohda is about 14 weeks old, almost 15 weeks and has recently started to get a bit protective of her food and a soft chew she gets a few times a week (growling and trying to wrap her paws around it so you can't take it). We've never taken food from her or teased her, and I've read that this "can" happen. So for us it appears it might be starting.. We may have done something wrong? Not sure, but either way we need to do something different for our sanity and protection but mainly HERS... We would like her to feel safe and secure here.. So what do we as puppy parents need to change?? How can we work through this??
I'm sorry if this sounds short or is worded wrong..I've had an hour of sleep and I'm really, really tired! My 7 yo got a buckle fracture on this thigh bone yesterday at school and is now in a full leg splint from toe to upper thigh awaiting to see on Monday if he will get his full leg cast... And boy can I tell you, he is almost to heavy for me to carry to bathroom and I can't imagine what it will be like when he gets his cast...just thinking about it makes me more tired...and here is my beautiful Bohda, not understanding and wanting to play, play, play today and I just keep looking at her like she is insane (that is when the grit clears from my eyes for those 30 second intervals! lol)... Poor baby just doesn't understand, so were muddling through the best we can today...lol...
April and Bohda in SC |
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swatson6

 Attention Starved

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| 05/17/2007 11:33 AM |
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Hi and Welcome. I don't have a lot of advice, but we always tried to work on this with Jack since I have small children. I ALWAYS make Jack sit and wait before I put his food down. I also have picked his bowl up on and off while he was eating and then given it back. I put my hands in his bowl while he's eating too. Not sure if any of this will help. Nora our training moderator will be back soon and I am sure she will have more answers for you. |
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Sarah Mom to Jack, Jeter and foster mom to Teagan
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JenMax

 Firehouse Big Dog

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| 05/17/2007 11:34 AM |
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Posted By KlondikeCafe on 05/17/2007 11:23 AM
Bohda is about 14 weeks old, almost 15 weeks and has recently started to get a bit protective of her food and a soft chew she gets a few times a week (growling and trying to wrap her paws around it so you can't take it). We've never taken food from her or teased her, and I've read that this "can" happen. So for us it appears it might be starting.. We may have done something wrong? Not sure, but either way we need to do something different for our sanity and protection but mainly HERS... We would like her to feel safe and secure here.. So what do we as puppy parents need to change?? How can we work through this??
I'm sorry if this sounds short or is worded wrong..I've had an hour of sleep and I'm really, really tired! My 7 yo got a buckle fracture on this thigh bone yesterday at school and is now in a full leg splint from toe to upper thigh awaiting to see on Monday if he will get his full leg cast... And boy can I tell you, he is almost to heavy for me to carry to bathroom and I can't imagine what it will be like when he gets his cast...just thinking about it makes me more tired...and here is my beautiful Bohda, not understanding and wanting to play, play, play today and I just keep looking at her like she is insane (that is when the grit clears from my eyes for those 30 second intervals! lol)... Poor baby just doesn't understand, so were muddling through the best we can today...lol...
April and Bohda in SC I don't know how to answer your question but hopefully someone will.
I am sorry about your 7 yr old. That will be tough!
Please post a picture of little Bohda when you can. 
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Jenny - Max's sister
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mario07

 Bratty Ratty

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| 05/17/2007 1:30 PM |
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OH, I hope your child is okay. Wow, can't imagine a full leg cast... I hope your baby heals soon.
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~~Shannon, Mario and Pepper's mom!~~
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ctakahashi

 Rattie

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| 05/18/2007 11:32 AM |
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sorry to hear about your child. The important thing with food aggression is that the dog has to know that YOU are absolutely the boss. You cannot let them get away with it even occasionally. consistency is key here. make them wait for their food. make sure that you can take it from them at any time without aggression. This will be essential for the whole family to work on together. good luck! |
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Do they really love us or are we just walking food dispensers? |
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Mitzy's Mom

 PAWesome

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| 05/18/2007 12:07 PM |
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This is normal behavior for a puppy but it needs to be "nipped in the bud" so to speak. He is testing his boundaries and it is vital that he/she see you as pack leader aka alpha. My Mayfly went thru this with her nutrident chew bone she gets (not food, just the chewie) last year....I finally had to turn her over on her back and growl right back at her! She submitted and there has been no problem since. Not saying to do exactly what I did - just that you need be able to take food or treats or toys away from your pup at anytime and they submit to that....otherwise you aren't alpha and lots of problems can come from that. This isn't a big deal - but it could turn into one especially since you have children. |
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Mary Beth, mom to the Lollipop Kids
Georgia Foster Mom, New Rattitude Check out our ratties at www.newrattitude.org |
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KlondikeCafe

Rattie

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| 06/02/2007 11:20 AM |
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I want to thank everyone for the well wish's for my son (he will be in a full leg cast for about another 4 to 5 weeks, and the last 2 weeks have not been that fun with him not being able to walk..poor kid! VERY hard on a 7 year old with a 6 year old sister who can still go out and play with there friends!)
As for Bohda, she is still showing food agression. I've been sitting with her while she eats and randomly rubbing her body and if she growls I will pull her back from her food a bit and just pet her for a minute before allowing her to resume eating. That wasn't working to well, so now I am still randomly rubbing on her off and on and if she growls I have been pulling her away from her food an giving her some from my hand. She usually settles down after this and doesn't growl, however if I pet her she tenses up really bad still. If I pull her back from her food and even try to rub her chest she pulls her front legs up as if she's keeping a bone and doesn't want me to have it.
I've never run across this before and find it very strange and a bit disturbing.
Anymore help would be greatly appreciated, she is fine any other time but I worry about this food issue!
April and Bohda |
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rattytatty

Newbie

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| 06/02/2007 5:09 PM |
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Most important -- so sorry to hear about your son and I know this has got to be a difficult time for your family.
Concerning Bohda's food aggression....guarding food is a natural instinct that derives from a dog's pack behavior. When other animals are a threat, a pack will guard its food in order to survive. This food aggression instinct exists in every dog and can be triggered if a dog feels threatened while he eats. Once the problem has already surfaced, dealing with food aggression can prove frustrating. For this reason, it's imperative to prevent the problem before it begins. There are some ways to do this.
When your dog eats, walk up and toss a treat in her food bowl. Be sure that it's tastier then her regular food. Do this for about a month and your dog will think every time a person approaches her food dish something good will happen.
ALWAYS remove your dog's food bowl from the floor between meals. When she's hungry place her empty food bowl on the floor. Once she realizes there's nothing in it, she will turn to you. Walk over to her dish, put a small amount of food in, then move a few feet away. When she finishes, go back and place another small amount in her bowl. Repeat this until your dog is finished eating, then remove her food bowl until the next meal.
If your dog is overly protective of the food bowl itself, take it away completely. Feed your dog from your hand. Once she's comfortable with this new idea, have her eat from your hand as you hold it over the bowl. This allows you to reintroduce the bowl and maintain control. Drop the food in and let her eat normally when you believe the food aggression has been overcome.
Please do not punish your dog. Punishment is often what causes this behavioral problem to begin with and will only make it worse. Your dog needs to be comfortable with you before she'll trust you around his food. Any type of confrontation can make her feel uneasy while eating.
Good luck with this! Keep us posted on your progress! |
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My3Rats

 Ratterific

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| 06/06/2007 5:29 PM |
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Wow such great advice Nora!! Sorry to hijack the thread but along the same lines......what about food aggression towards another dog sibling? Bailey is the middle dog but the Alpha dog, she food guards with both dogs but worse with Squirt (the third dog). When she does that we quietly say "Bailey No" or if she goes to bother Squirt when she is eating we do the same. She does stop. I notice Squirt is always looking over her shoulder as she eats. Is what we are doing wrong? Is that considered punishing her? Thanks for your help. |
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Gizmo (9), Squirt (6), Bailey (8)
~~Life is better with dogs~~ |
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michelle

 Firehouse Big Dog

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| 06/06/2007 6:18 PM |
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| like to hear about food aggression between "siblings" as well. Doesnt happen all the time but once in a while Sonic gets bossy with Sydney |
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michelle, mom to Sydney (JRT), Sonic (Rattie), Buddy(Jack-Rat) and Proud mom to Army son, Jordan
http://www.dogster.com/dogs/893222 Sydney http://www.dogster.com/dogs/893220 Sonic http://www.dogster.com/dogs/901405 Buddy
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Nat

 Rat-A-Tat-Tat

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| 06/06/2007 6:59 PM |
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Great advice Nora (as usual! ) Cookie is so aggressive with her food..it's a totally stressful situation. Mainly with Jake and JT..she leaves me and Simon (our other kitty) alone. As far as bones go...I absolutely cannot give them to her anymore..which makes me sad because she loves them. But they literally turn her into another dog that's evil.  |
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xoxo, -Nat
http://www.NatInAustin.com http://www.myspace.com/cookieinaustin
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Ski

 Ratastic

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| 06/06/2007 10:30 PM |
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Posted By My3Rats on 06/06/2007 5:29 PM
Wow such great advice Nora!! Sorry to hijack the thread but along the same lines......what about food aggression towards another dog sibling? Bailey is the middle dog but the Alpha dog, she food guards with both dogs but worse with Squirt (the third dog). When she does that we quietly say "Bailey No" or if she goes to bother Squirt when she is eating we do the same. She does stop. I notice Squirt is always looking over her shoulder as she eats. Is what we are doing wrong? Is that considered punishing her? Thanks for your help.
That actually sounds pretty normal to me. My brothers 3 dogs do that, the alpha dog is the slowest eater and the other 2 finish quickly and go looking at the other bowls. He just makes sure to give each dog their own spot to eat that is away from the others. He still has to do like you do, quietly tell the dogs to leave the others alone. The fact that Bailey stops, to me, tells me that it's not a problem. I would just make sure Squirt has her own area that she can eat in relative peace.
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rattytatty

Newbie

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| 06/07/2007 8:25 AM |
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I failed to mention to April that petting her dog, or pulling the dog away from the food... is inviting the dog to bite her. Please don't continue to do that, April. There are other ways to correct the behavior and keep the aggression to a minimum while your pup eats. Instead, please try one of the suggestions I made, and NEVER put yourself in a position where you know the dog can bite you. As far as feeding multiple dogs at the same time.... I feed 4 dogs at the same time. Each dog has his/her own "spot" and they stand in their specific spots while I fix their food (I do not free feed, and I feed only once a day.. in the evenings). I put the bowls down and each dog eats his/her own food. If one finishes before the other one.. he/she MIGHT go over to another bowl but if the dog growls (which is perfectly normal behavior) the dog will back off. This is normal behavior. The growl serves as a "warning", and I let them work this out. Now... if the growl were to turn to MORE than that... for example of the dog eating were to attack the upcoming dog, I would definitely intervene and correct the behavior but NOT by putting my hand down to stop it. I would have a roll of paper towels, or another object to separate them. However, this has never happened. So that's MY situation... but it is how I've trained them to do. In the beginning... I separated them. I had three dogs when I got Bailey and the other dogs were well established in their feeding routine. I did not think it was wise to add Bailey immediately to the group during feeding time. So I fed him in another area of the room... off to himself... and gradually moved him into his "spot" with the rest of the group. It worked fine. Now they all four eat together. If you have dogs which are really aggressive with each other during feeding time... separate the feeding areas. I allow my dogs to work out their issues... feeding or otherwise... by themselves as much as I can, but always under my supervision. If one gets too rough with the other... I step in, but that doesn't happen too often. |
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michelle

 Firehouse Big Dog

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| 06/07/2007 11:38 AM |
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| Both Sydney and Sonic have their own bowls also. Sydney finishes first and goes by Sonic and he will growl. No biting so this is normal? We should just make sure it does not get worse? I call Syd over by me and she comes then Sonic finishes and comes over by her and they play. |
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michelle, mom to Sydney (JRT), Sonic (Rattie), Buddy(Jack-Rat) and Proud mom to Army son, Jordan
http://www.dogster.com/dogs/893222 Sydney http://www.dogster.com/dogs/893220 Sonic http://www.dogster.com/dogs/901405 Buddy
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michelle

 Firehouse Big Dog

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| 06/07/2007 11:39 AM |
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| Both Sydney and Sonic have their own bowls also. Sydney finishes first and goes by Sonic and he will growl. No biting so this is normal? We should just make sure it does not get worse? I call Syd over by me and she comes then Sonic finishes and comes over by her and they play. |
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michelle, mom to Sydney (JRT), Sonic (Rattie), Buddy(Jack-Rat) and Proud mom to Army son, Jordan
http://www.dogster.com/dogs/893222 Sydney http://www.dogster.com/dogs/893220 Sonic http://www.dogster.com/dogs/901405 Buddy
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michelle

 Firehouse Big Dog

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| 06/07/2007 11:40 AM |
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| Sorry double entry |
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michelle, mom to Sydney (JRT), Sonic (Rattie), Buddy(Jack-Rat) and Proud mom to Army son, Jordan
http://www.dogster.com/dogs/893222 Sydney http://www.dogster.com/dogs/893220 Sonic http://www.dogster.com/dogs/901405 Buddy
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rattytatty

Newbie

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| 06/07/2007 11:55 AM |
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| It's absolutely normal behavior. It's best to let them work out things like this by themselves. If a warning growl works and it keeps the other dog away... then no harm is done. If they start physically fighting... you'll have to intervene but NEVER with your hands (which is an instinctive behavior with us humans). There are certain inherent canine behaviors that will always exist regardless of how much and what type of training we do. Growling to protect their territory is normal pack behavior. In and of itself, it's not dangerous. But it can get out of control if allowed to do so. I never feed my dogs and leave... I always supervise them. |
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My3Rats

 Ratterific

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| 06/07/2007 6:38 PM |
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Posted By Ski on 06/06/2007 10:30 PM
Posted By My3Rats on 06/06/2007 5:29 PM
Wow such great advice Nora!! Sorry to hijack the thread but along the same lines......what about food aggression towards another dog sibling? Bailey is the middle dog but the Alpha dog, she food guards with both dogs but worse with Squirt (the third dog). When she does that we quietly say "Bailey No" or if she goes to bother Squirt when she is eating we do the same. She does stop. I notice Squirt is always looking over her shoulder as she eats. Is what we are doing wrong? Is that considered punishing her? Thanks for your help.
That actually sounds pretty normal to me. My brothers 3 dogs do that, the alpha dog is the slowest eater and the other 2 finish quickly and go looking at the other bowls. He just makes sure to give each dog their own spot to eat that is away from the others. He still has to do like you do, quietly tell the dogs to leave the others alone. The fact that Bailey stops, to me, tells me that it's not a problem. I would just make sure Squirt has her own area that she can eat in relative peace.
I wonder about your brothers Alpha dog...just curious is the alpha dog the slowest just because he is or because he is watching the other dogs as he eats? That is what Bailey does with her food and treats, keeps looking and kinda protecting her food acting like the others might come over. (the aren't stupid-lol)
We have 3 bowls spread out in the same room. If we let Bailey be it could turn ugly BUT Squirt knows and won't go by her and the food. We basically tell Bailey NO because she would try to dominate and get Squirt away from her bowl and then Squirt won't eat. Squirt seems very aware of the situation and eats when Bailey is at the far bowl or when she is done. We never leave them with food and us not home because of this.
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Gizmo (9), Squirt (6), Bailey (8)
~~Life is better with dogs~~ |
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My3Rats

 Ratterific

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| 06/07/2007 6:40 PM |
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| Nora can I ask why you never intervene with your hands? Bailey will go after Squirt over a bone or something and it can get ugly. We let it be unless it sounds a certain way then we know to intervene and we always use our hands. |
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Gizmo (9), Squirt (6), Bailey (8)
~~Life is better with dogs~~ |
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Ski

 Ratastic

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| 06/07/2007 7:50 PM |
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Posted By My3Rats on 06/07/2007 6:38 PM
Posted By Ski on 06/06/2007 10:30 PM
Posted By My3Rats on 06/06/2007 5:29 PM
Wow such great advice Nora!! Sorry to hijack the thread but along the same lines......what about food aggression towards another dog sibling? Bailey is the middle dog but the Alpha dog, she food guards with both dogs but worse with Squirt (the third dog). When she does that we quietly say "Bailey No" or if she goes to bother Squirt when she is eating we do the same. She does stop. I notice Squirt is always looking over her shoulder as she eats. Is what we are doing wrong? Is that considered punishing her? Thanks for your help.
That actually sounds pretty normal to me. My brothers 3 dogs do that, the alpha dog is the slowest eater and the other 2 finish quickly and go looking at the other bowls. He just makes sure to give each dog their own spot to eat that is away from the others. He still has to do like you do, quietly tell the dogs to leave the others alone. The fact that Bailey stops, to me, tells me that it's not a problem. I would just make sure Squirt has her own area that she can eat in relative peace.
I wonder about your brothers Alpha dog...just curious is the alpha dog the slowest just because he is or because he is watching the other dogs as he eats? That is what Bailey does with her food and treats, keeps looking and kinda protecting her food acting like the others might come over. (the aren't stupid-lol)
We have 3 bowls spread out in the same room. If we let Bailey be it could turn ugly BUT Squirt knows and won't go by her and the food. We basically tell Bailey NO because she would try to dominate and get Squirt away from her bowl and then Squirt won't eat. Squirt seems very aware of the situation and eats when Bailey is at the far bowl or when she is done. We never leave them with food and us not home because of this.
My brothers alpha just likes to take her time eating. She'll give a warning growl if another dog approaches and that'll be enough, but she doesn't give the others even a glance while they eat.
As far as sticking your hand in there, that's a good way to get a serious bite wound so I believe that's why Nora said to use something else.
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KlondikeCafe

Rattie

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| 06/11/2007 7:58 AM |
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Posted By rattytatty on 06/02/2007 5:09 PM
Most important -- so sorry to hear about your son and I know this has got to be a difficult time for your family.
Concerning Bohda's food aggression....guarding food is a natural instinct that derives from a dog's pack behavior. When other animals are a threat, a pack will guard its food in order to survive. This food aggression instinct exists in every dog and can be triggered if a dog feels threatened while he eats. Once the problem has already surfaced, dealing with food aggression can prove frustrating. For this reason, it's imperative to prevent the problem before it begins. There are some ways to do this.
When your dog eats, walk up and toss a treat in her food bowl. Be sure that it's tastier then her regular food. Do this for about a month and your dog will think every time a person approaches her food dish something good will happen.
ALWAYS remove your dog's food bowl from the floor between meals. When she's hungry place her empty food bowl on the floor. Once she realizes there's nothing in it, she will turn to you. Walk over to her dish, put a small amount of food in, then move a few feet away. When she finishes, go back and place another small amount in her bowl. Repeat this until your dog is finished eating, then remove her food bowl until the next meal.
If your dog is overly protective of the food bowl itself, take it away completely. Feed your dog from your hand. Once she's comfortable with this new idea, have her eat from your hand as you hold it over the bowl. This allows you to reintroduce the bowl and maintain control. Drop the food in and let her eat normally when you believe the food aggression has been overcome.
Please do not punish your dog. Punishment is often what causes this behavioral problem to begin with and will only make it worse. Your dog needs to be comfortable with you before she'll trust you around his food. Any type of confrontation can make her feel uneasy while eating.
Good luck with this! Keep us posted on your progress!
Thank you so much Nora!!
I think we will take her bowl away and feed her from our hand, rotating family memebers for a while before introducing her bowl again. Our two older dogs have never done this with each other or us, so its a new experience. We do feed her separate and at different times from our older dogs. DH husband feeds the older dogs before he leaves for work and I feed Bohda after that when I get up. The older dogs don't really hang around her while she eats, but we have children and cats that will mosey by and of course me or DH who are always with her. She is fine eating as long as no one "touches" her or gets to close to her bowl. This morning I was up much earlier than normal and thought I would just get an earlier start on my day, everyone else was asleep or gone and when I fed her she was fine, I pet her and told her she was a good girl and she didn't even try and horde her bowl. I found this interesting, it was like two different dogs! I'm sure with the house in full blown awakefulness she would not have been so wonderful about it! LOL
Thank you so much for all the suggestions. I will be printing it out today so we can all read it over and talk about it. It's nice to have everyone on the same page and doing the same thing so we don't work against each other. 
Thanks again! I'm off to print now.
April and Bohda in SC |
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rattytatty

Newbie

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| 06/11/2007 8:56 AM |
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| April -- she's a new addition and feeling intimidated... it's totally normal behavior, but it can be corrected ... I applaud you for taking the time and making the commitment to "fix" this issue before it worsens. Each dog has his/her own individual personality too, as you will learn with this new addition. The other dogs have been there longer and your home is THEIR territory. Your new addition will have to "earn" her place... but she will do so in time and with your direction. I love it when I see someone truly making the effort to train their dog !! THANK YOU !! |
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