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Author Messages
swedishfish5


Ratastic
Ratastic
05/21/2007 4:16 PM  

We are going to breed our rat terrier with a black and white chihauha, how old does my rat terrier need to be? I've heard 2 years old....


Mommy to KAMI and MACIE
Darla


Ratterific
Ratterific
05/23/2007 9:09 PM  

IMO ..never. I am not at all in favor of mixing the breeds.


(link)

Breeders Of Champion and Grand Champion
Rat Terriers and American Hairless Terriers
Striving For Health, Temperament and Conformation In All Our Terriers
KnD
Breeding For A Better Tomorrow- Today.
bratt


Firehouse Big Dog
Firehouse Big Dog
05/23/2007 9:18 PM  

Agreed!


Debra~KSSM Queen II
Savanna~Princess Easy Street
rattytatty


Newbie
Newbie
05/23/2007 9:23 PM  
I agree !! Wholeheartedly !!
Darla


Ratterific
Ratterific
05/24/2007 10:29 AM  

Good Morning,

May I ask you a question...

If you do this breeding, what do you hope to gain from it? What are your goals?

I am just interested in why you would want to.

Thanks in advance,

Darla

 


(link)

Breeders Of Champion and Grand Champion
Rat Terriers and American Hairless Terriers
Striving For Health, Temperament and Conformation In All Our Terriers
KnD
Breeding For A Better Tomorrow- Today.
swedishfish5


Ratastic
Ratastic
05/24/2007 4:06 PM  
We just want another dog and my best friend would like one too, I think it will be cute~~

Mommy to KAMI and MACIE
Susan


Terrier Terror
Terrier Terror
05/24/2007 5:42 PM  
Why not breed rat terrier to rat terrier? Mixing breeds IMO is not a good idea at all! If you ended up with five or six puppies would you be able to find forever homes for them? I am a breeder and I kept one little male for five months before I found the RIGHT home for him. It is hard to find homes sometimes for extra pups and if you don't want to have five or six adult dogs, or be willing to keep them until you can find homes, it is very hard on the dogs, Many get PUT TO SLEEP (That means killed) . You really need to think about that for a while before you decide to breed.

ANYTHING WORTH DOING IS WORTH OVERDOING Mom of eight, only three left at home! Pack leader to ten ratties: Maggie, Mysty, Berry, Simon, Ceecee and five puppies, Star,Sari, Bluebelle, Double stuf,and Snortie. As well as Ginger the Border Collie and a herd of turkeys!
bratt


Firehouse Big Dog
Firehouse Big Dog
05/24/2007 5:50 PM  
Posted By swedishfish5 on 05/24/2007 4:06 PM
We just want another dog and my best friend would like one too, I think it will be cute~~



If you want another dog, please adopt! There are so many in need. I know it's natural to want one from you own dog, but please, there are so many pups out there in desparate need of homes, especially mixes. Please reconsider.


Debra~KSSM Queen II
Savanna~Princess Easy Street
Susan


Terrier Terror
Terrier Terror
05/24/2007 9:44 PM  
I have noticed that there are quite a few small rattie/chi mixes in shelters. If you just want one cute dog that would be the better idea.

ANYTHING WORTH DOING IS WORTH OVERDOING Mom of eight, only three left at home! Pack leader to ten ratties: Maggie, Mysty, Berry, Simon, Ceecee and five puppies, Star,Sari, Bluebelle, Double stuf,and Snortie. As well as Ginger the Border Collie and a herd of turkeys!
Darla


Ratterific
Ratterific
05/24/2007 10:23 PM  

Ditto .. and something for people that aren't going to be breeders per-say,  spaying and neutering will help stop breast and testicular cancer.  

So, save a sweet rattie chi mix and adopt one from a shelter that may very well be put to death....and of course that is just my opinion.

Can you all please allow me get on a soapbox just a little....

As breeders that try to improve and striving to breed better i.e. healthier etc... it is a bit disheartening to hear of others breeding like this... and we hear it a lot. It's kind of like taking one step forward and three steps back.


(link)

Breeders Of Champion and Grand Champion
Rat Terriers and American Hairless Terriers
Striving For Health, Temperament and Conformation In All Our Terriers
KnD
Breeding For A Better Tomorrow- Today.
Sassy'sMama


Firehouse Big Dog
Firehouse Big Dog
05/25/2007 5:03 AM  
ummm please don't mix breeds.. if the Rattie is male and the Chi is female, it might produce pups too big for the Dam to have...

~~Jan~~
Mama to Sassy

**www.marykay.com/janetkimberlin**
Sassy'sMama


Firehouse Big Dog
Firehouse Big Dog
05/25/2007 5:16 AM  
Darla,
this is the kind of responsible breeder I like to see.. I just checked out your site... freakin awesome!!
I think the hairless would be strange to the touch, but I love the markings on the one in your avitar..

My babies consist of, Sassy whom I raised from 8 weeks to my rescue Pumpkin...

~~Jan~~
Mama to Sassy

**www.marykay.com/janetkimberlin**
michelle


Firehouse Big Dog
Firehouse Big Dog
05/25/2007 5:20 AM  
Why not go through the shelters and adopt a needed pup through them. We did that with Sonic and do not regret it at all. Also spaying and neutering is the way to go to help reduce more pups looking for homes and it it better for your dog's health.

michelle, mom to Sydney (JRT), Sonic (Rattie), Buddy(Jack-Rat) and Proud mom to Army son, Jordan

http://www.dogster.com/dogs/893222 Sydney
http://www.dogster.com/dogs/893220 Sonic
http://www.dogster.com/dogs/901405 Buddy



Darla


Ratterific
Ratterific
05/25/2007 8:09 AM  

Good Morning Jan,

Thank you for your kind words. Breeding isn't perfect. We have had our share of problems and heartaches but we are trying.

It hurts to raise a dog for 2 years and maybe even have spent a lot of money showing it, to only find out at 2 that they have health issues and can't be breed with. Welcome to breeding...I have fell in love with that dog and no way do I want to place it but..we can't keep them all, even though we usually do..lol. We have as many pets as we have breeding show dogs....

How many breeders are out there breeding dogs with issues but don't know it because they don't test AT ALL.  If anyone looks at OFA they will see that sure .. KnD has dogs with problems on there but doesn't that show we are trying? All dogs with problems listed on OFA with KnD on their name are ALL fixed....Testing isn't a guarantee but it the best we can do....If they don't test they most certainly WON'T have a dog with problems...does make sense?

When we first started out we made our fair share of mistakes too. We should have tested from the start but..we didn't even know about testing much less how to go about it. Sure enough, the first dog we tested and yes we had bred with him, had an issue. He was fixed johnny on the spot but that has not saved him from having a stigma on him and his off spring from now on I guess. We didn't even realize how important it was to post the bad results as it was to post the good so another mistake..it was not posted..Now some think we are trying to hide something.. only or ignorance.  If only others could learn from our mistakes  I might add..his issue was made VERY public by us and others on breeders boards and e-mails. Yep-he is still here and is a great grandpa dog with the puppies.

If you ever had a hairless in your hands for awhile you would be in love. These are such dear sweet things. How could they not be descending from Rat Terriers. Such kissable skin they have. Their skin reminds me of my moms old soft leather purse.. lol You would be SO hooked...

Thank you for rescuing your baby Pumpkin ..rescue is so important.  So many dogs out there that no one made plans for. We love showing hence wanting to improve on our so loved breed.

We love seeing good families that have lots of love and care enjoying their ratties.

Sorry..got on my soapbox again.

Thanks again... your kind words mean a lot.

Have a good day,

Darla

 


(link)

Breeders Of Champion and Grand Champion
Rat Terriers and American Hairless Terriers
Striving For Health, Temperament and Conformation In All Our Terriers
KnD
Breeding For A Better Tomorrow- Today.
Mitzy's Mom


PAWesome
PAWesome
05/25/2007 4:47 PM  

Oh gosh, PLEASE rethink breeding your rattie just to get another dog!  There are many rattie-chi mixes in shelters, my two are both rescues....probably came from backyard breeders that just wanted "cute puppies"! 

I don't want to offend you but good reputable breeders like Darla and Susan put in a lot of research, time and money into breeding rat terriers for the good of the breed.  You have to be sure both the male and female are free of genetic problems (also grandparents, etc.).  You have to be prepared to find good homes for all puppies (and people who now say "oh yes, I'll take one" often change their mind when the pups are ready to go).  You have to be prepared for the financial expenses of it all including possible emergency c-sections.

There is no reason to breed a chi with a rattie!  I love Skipper and Mitzy BUT I can tell you that Mitzy has inherited physical problems that are for me to see.  She has glaucoma in her eye (under control with drops) and sometimes her patella slips.  The glaucoma is a common problem with chi's and is inherited.

 


Mary Beth, mom to the Lollipop Kids

Georgia Foster Mom, New Rattitude
Check out our ratties at www.newrattitude.org
crazy4ratties


Ratastic
Ratastic
06/21/2007 7:56 PM  
First of all, if she wants to breed a chi to a rat terrier, let her. If any of you so call rat terrier lovers know the breed history of the rat terrier, you would know
that the breed DOES HAVE CHI in it. Something that could be gain from the breeding would be possibly smaller rat terriers but as someone have pointed out if it is the chi that is the female, maybe she shouldn't.

Another thing, every purebred dog IS a Cross bred between other breeds. Take the westie for example. It started out as a Cairn terrier, and one litter produced all white
Westies are descended from Cairn Terriers, who occasionally whelped white puppies naturally, and Scottish Terriers; who also occasionally produced white offspring. White offspring from other British Terriers such as the Bedlington Terrier and Dandie Dinmont Terrier were occasionally introduced to the bloodline for desired characteristics, but this practice generally stopped in the 1850s.

Some sources credit Colonel Edward Donald Malcolm and his kin of Poltalloch, in the Argyll region of western Scotland as an originator of this breed in the 1800s. Other sources credit the 8th Duke of Argyll (Chieftain of Clan Campbell) as an originator of the breed. However, there may have been some cooperation between the two gentlemen. It may have taken as long as a hundred years of selective breeding to produce all the desired qualities. Their white coat made them highly visible when hunting on the Scottish moors and easily distinguished them from their game (this was an extremely important factor because hunters sometimes mistook brown dogs for foxes, and shot them). They also possess a sturdy frame.

Originally the breed was known as the Poltalloch Terrier (after the name of Malcolm's home); they were also known as the Roseneath Terrier (after the name of Argyll's home; see Rosneath), White Roseneath Terrier, and at the end of the 19th century, briefly as a white variety of the Scottish Terrier.

For another example, the labradoodle, which was bred in 1975, and now it is a breed of its own. The rat terrier orginated from England and was bred from these breeds:Manchester Terriers, Smooth Fox Terriers, and Whippets. Later in the US, Beagles, Chihuhaus and Italian Greyhounds were added to the mix.

Lastly, the Jack rat, a cross between, the jack russell and the rat terrier and is very popular in some areas. There are breeders that choose to cross breed their dogs to improve the dog's breed. None of you answered her simple question: how old and so I shall.

My veterinarian advises me and my fellow friends to breed our females after their 2 heat, when they are more mature.

While I don't condone the act of cross breeding, none of you should have jumped down her throat.

Believe it or not, some people rather have a cross bred, other then a purebred, because of heredity diseases and stuff and also it combines the best advantages of both breeds. People do buy cross breeds, though there are alot of cross bred dogs at the animal shelters as it is, and for that matter, mix breed dogs as well.

Nat


Rat-A-Tat-Tat
Rat-A-Tat-Tat
06/21/2007 8:10 PM  
Crazy4ratties: nobody "jumped" down her throat. And if she thought that then I apologize for everyone...but I asure you that was nobody's intention at all. I think that she got great advice..don't breed.....adopt. Breeding is SERIOUS business..and we have all experienced NUMEROUS ratties in shelters. It's an emotional roller-coaster.

If she want's to breed and is responsable and has already found homes for her future pups....GREAT! I just think that it's highly unlikely. And she did say that they wanted another one and that it would be "cute". Not a reason to breed.

We are the most dog-loving group of folks ever...and if anyone came across as "ugly" it's just because we are thinking of the dog's/future puppies welfare.


xoxo,
-Nat

http://www.NatInAustin.com
http://www.myspace.com/cookieinaustin











DaisysMom


Moderator
<b>Moderator</b>
06/21/2007 8:15 PM  
I agree. I don't think anyone meant to jump down her throat...but I can't speak for those that responded to her. I will say that I, too, cannot support someone who is breeding because we "want one" and think it would be "cute". There are too many dogs: mixed, crosses, purebred...you name it, in shelters. Plenty of them are cute and too many of them will end up euthanized no matter how cute and loveable they are.

Tracey - Darlin' Daisy's Mom

Katie'sMom


Newbie
Newbie
06/21/2007 8:25 PM  
I hope no one meant to "jump down her throat" and I agree to a point with you all -- but adoption/rescue may not be for everyone. While it is indeed a worthy cause, I confess that Katie was not a rescue -- every pup that has been born is in need of a home, whether from a breeder or a shelter. Now, there are some differing opinions on cross-breeding. Some "pure bred" dogs have genetic problems -- it is just about unavoidable -- take Labs for instance -- even the most careful and responsible breeders can end up with a pup with hip dysplesia. I know one very good, careful, responsible breeder and she has had hip dysplesia dogs -- when that happens, she doesn't breed the parents again, has the pups "fixed" and sells them as family pets. She has some awesome, field trial champions, tool. Some of the healthiest dogs I've ever seen were mix-breed. JMO. However, breeding should be carefully considered and not gone into lightly. But, hey, Ratties are such great dogs because they have come from cross-breeding and have not been accepted by AKC, therefore there has not been a lot of "pure breed" breeding until recent years -- one of the advantages of NOT being AKC recognized. Okay, y'all can all tell me I'm wrong now.
DaisysMom


Moderator
<b>Moderator</b>
06/21/2007 8:51 PM  
I don't disagree with you Jan. Just merely think that this particular poster and her indication that she and a friend each wanted up a pup and thought the mix would be cute was just, IMO, not a good enough reason to breed two dogs, especially since she is/was likely to end up with more than two pups. And you are correct that adopting a shelther dog isn't for everyone - but I also believe, if one takes their time and does a lot of searching, the "perfect" dog can be found in a shelter more times than not.

I've said often here that I'm not sure at all that I even want AKC recognition of our breed because of all of the potential drawbacks. I'm also not a fan of those that think that dogs without "papers" and a lineage going back generation after generation just aren't somehow as good as those dogs that do have those things. Some of the best dogs in the whole world - probably the majority in fact - have been "mutts" without a pedigree.

I've also brought it up before that I don't like to "jump on someone" for cross-breeding only because at one point in time all dogs were mutts before humans began breeding them for certain genetics/characteristics, so who am I to say that the Labradoodle for example is less worthy than the rat terrier - which was purposefully 'created' by cross-breeding other breeds. I'm certain at the time farmers in America were "making" the rat terrier into what it is today, there may have been individuals not thrilled with creating a new breed out of others. That being said, however, I DO have a big problem with people breeding every dog in the world to a chihuahua so they can make new designer dogs that fit in purses so "cute" girls can carry them around like accessories. Swear to God, one day they're gonna try to make a Rottchi (rottweiller/chihuahua)!!!

Anyway, sorry for running off at the mouth! I went back and read the posts in reply to the initial question and I don't think anyone was harsh or mean, which is what I really wanted to address to crazy4ratties. That and referring to people here as "so called rat terrier lovers".

Tracey - Darlin' Daisy's Mom

Katie'sMom


Newbie
Newbie
06/21/2007 8:57 PM  
Tracey, very well said and I would have to say I agree completely with you! Just making the point, as you did much better than I, that cross-breeds were not necessarily a bad thing. Sigh - the modern world is sometimes just too "causy"!! Mutts can and do make great family pets. And I'm in agreement about being unsure about the whole AKC thing. I will tell you that today or yesterday on Good Morning America they had the "world's smallest dog" -- I turned it off, because of just what you said -- I just didn't want to see this little "designer" dog. Tracey, you are very eloquent and have a very good way of getting your message across. Good job - and I mean that from the bottom of my heart!
DaisysMom


Moderator
<b>Moderator</b>
06/21/2007 9:01 PM  
Thanks, Jan !!!

Tracey - Darlin' Daisy's Mom

Jeff


Bratty Ratty
Bratty Ratty
06/21/2007 9:03 PM  
IMO,I see nothing wrong with breeding RT & Chi's.My great uncle had a RT/Chi mix and it was one of the best hunting dogs and companion that you could ever find.he ended up getting ran over but he was 17 yrs old so he probably didn't have much longer to live anyways.He's the reason i got Cassie.






Being a smarta** is better than being a dumba**

http://www.bonusbuy.biz
myspace.com/Jeffery26
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10043207@N02/
http://www.perfspot.com/Jeffery7505
swedishfish5


Ratastic
Ratastic
06/22/2007 12:17 AM  
yeah i don't know either way we are going to breed her with the chiuhaha (sp?) and i will fnd good homes for all the puppies especially if she has 4 or less My mom wants one, we want at LEAST one, my boyfriends mom wants one and so does my friend

Mommy to KAMI and MACIE
Yoda


Rattie
Rattie
06/29/2007 9:01 AM  
swedishfish- just a thought, but if you bred your lil rat with another rat, they would be several advantages. one, you would be more likely to find good homes, and second, you could SELL them. you might even make a small profit after vet bills/expenses. its going to be lots harder if they are mixed to find homes for, and you will probably lose money due to vet bills.

also, you never know, they could be ugly. my sister's friend bred a chi with a yorkie and gave one to my sis. cute as a pup, but grew up & now it looks like a little gremlin!!! (shes still loved tho)

one last thought, do you think your friend would even know the difference or care if the puppies were purebred??? either way, good luck!!!!
Susan


Terrier Terror
Terrier Terror
06/29/2007 4:56 PM  
Well if you are definate, please look over the other breeding threads. There is alot of advice on feeding and finding a vet before the event. You will need some preparation and more is better. A vet that will be on call and work with you on money is the biggest problem! So many want cash up front! Sometimes it makes me wonder if some became vets just for the money! and not for the animals. But that is one of my pet peeves. You will want both the sire and dam in the best health possible and checked for genetic problems. If your female is mature at the second heat OK, but some just haven't grown up untill the third heat or later. It all depends on the dog!

ANYTHING WORTH DOING IS WORTH OVERDOING Mom of eight, only three left at home! Pack leader to ten ratties: Maggie, Mysty, Berry, Simon, Ceecee and five puppies, Star,Sari, Bluebelle, Double stuf,and Snortie. As well as Ginger the Border Collie and a herd of turkeys!
Bokilink


Rat Royalty
Rat Royalty
07/03/2007 9:34 PM  
I am new here so I hope I dont step on toes..... I have three dogs all different breeds.... I think that mix breed dogs (and full bred dogs too) end up getting stuck in a shelter and then euthanized... there are not allot of people out there who wants mutts.... I bought two of my dogs from breeders and one I basically rescued from a crack head who was studding him out and not feeding him and caring for him. I have TRIED to apoted dogs from shelters SEVERAL times and what I have found is that dogs who live in a persons home and get sent to the shelter are often time severly neglected. and this causes behavioral problems that the average person does not know how to deal with! they get sent from home to home and have several different families "problems" that now the "new" owner will have to deal with and if you are not a strong pack leader this can become very difficult to deal with!.....

I think that people who are thinking about breeding dogs should adopted a dog first....no matter what the breed... see if you can correct a shelter dogs problems and if you can, then hey, you can do anything.... your probably a strong pack leader and I say go ahead and breed. but if you have issues after a year with the shelter dog you may want to consider breeding fish or something that isnt a pack animal..... I have dealt with dog that family after family after family have "adopted"out of no kill shelters....and returned and these dogs inevitable have issues. (I mean even human children have issues when bounced from foster home to foster home, Humans are pack animals too!!!) any way I have dealt with shelter dogs and the AVERAGE person is not adept to deal with their issues.. and these dogs end up hurting some one or themselves....

I am sorry if I am on a soap box here and I am not trying to jump down any ones throat... I just think that breeding dogs or EVEN owning a dog is not something some one should jump into light heartedly!!!!

(I know I have expressed being upset with my RT here and I want you all to know that even if he had issues far beyond what I have said he has I would NEVER consider droping him ata shelter or even giving him away. I love my dogs like my kiddies..... matter of fact I love my dogs so much that I bought a suburban in Idaho before I moved to alsaka to accomodate the dogs on the long road trip up the AlCan....we had three big dogs when we moved up. two labs and a GSP)

I guess I am saying I see the person who said she wants to breed the RT and Chi to get a cute puppies side of this story, and I see every one elses sides too (get a RT and the adopt one sides) owning a dog is a big desicion. just be aware of all the things that could happen if you breed your pups!!!!


SNY WAY I am sorry
sharlarose


Newbie
Newbie
07/09/2007 1:59 PM  

THE RAT TERRIER FAMILY TREE...

rtfamilytree.jpg - 156808 Bytes
The chihuahua was introduced to the line in 1850 to make the TOY sized Rat Terrier.  This is how we made the Rattie smaller. 

My reply?  as long as your chihuahua is a shorthaired chi, with a deer face, there is not much difference, and will NOT ruin the breed statis.

Sharla Maben of RRK's in Oklahoma

www.imagevent.com/sharlarose  See our babies, they rule, cats drool!


Sharla Rose Maben
swedishfish5


Ratastic
Ratastic
07/09/2007 4:06 PM  
both our dogs look alot alike, especially their faces the chihuahua just different colored~~ He's all black with a white tummy-- VERY CUTE! He is also about the same weight as Macie, he's 12 lbs and Macie is 13

Mommy to KAMI and MACIE
Darla


Ratterific
Ratterific
07/09/2007 4:39 PM  

What was,  WAS... it doesn't mean that it should still be. I have studied the rat terrier history too and in truth their a whole lot more breeds than what is mentioned and Chihuahua isn't in all lines....it doesn't mean the practice should continue. If you want to stick to this form of thinking, we should all have wolves in our yards and beds.... JMO of course. All this conversation isn't going to matter anyway...


(link)

Breeders Of Champion and Grand Champion
Rat Terriers and American Hairless Terriers
Striving For Health, Temperament and Conformation In All Our Terriers
KnD
Breeding For A Better Tomorrow- Today.
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