These videos should raise some questions for anyone who is breeding purebred dogs.   I hope this kind of breeding never invades our rattie population.  (maybe it has already to some degree?)  Oftentimes when a breed is "accepted" by a kennel club.... it can be detrimental to the breed as a whole.   I know my vet told me the other day (he has been a vet for 24 years)... that he's seeing more and more health issues that are genetic because people want the "smallest"... the "fastest"... a "certain color"... etc. etc.... and there is more inbreeding and line breeding than ever.  I can't help but wonder what the future holds for our fine furry friends?

To watch these will take about an hour.... so if you are so inclined to set aside an hour for this purpose... I think you'll find it as enlightening as I did.

This is a link to all 6 videos:  (I suspect they will be removed from YouTube soon)

http://www.youtube. com/results? search_query= pedigree+ dogs+exposed& search\_ty
pe=&aq=f
<http://www.youtube. com/results? search_query= pedigree+ dogs+exposed& searc\h_t
ype=&aq=f>

It might not matter if everyone was opposed, as apparently the AKC has officially recognized breeds even when strongly opposed by a majority. This site: http://www.bordercollie.org/akc.html details what happened with the Border Collie, even though strongly opposed because (and I agree) the AKC is all about a breed standard concerned only with appearance (sigh!) Kind of long, but good reading.

Count me in! One of the thing I like MOST about Ratties is that each one's unique. Different markings, different colors, etc... and they don't look like cut-out dogs... but they all have that awesome personality that we all love!!

I didn't watch the videos, but there are good breeders and bad breeders in every breed/registry.  The heath issues your vet is seeing from the people who want the smallest, fastest, etc are caused by the people who are breeding designer dogs.  Their only concern is the almighty buck.  They don't follow the standard; so you can't blame the registry for that. 

A breed might become more popular when they are accepted by AKC, but it doesn't ruin the breed.  Unscrupulous breeders do that.  The AKC promotes breeding healthy dogs and doing genetic testing on all breeding stock.  They have a recommend list of health tests that should be done for each breed.  They will list your dog's clearances on all AKC documents (registration papers, pedigrees, etc).  They also issue certificates through the Canine Health Information Center when your dog has been tested and certified clear of all of it's breed's recommend clearances.  The Canine Health Information Center, also known as CHIC, is a centralized canine health database jointly sponsored by the AKC/Canine Health Foundation (AKC/CHF) and the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals (OFA).

I have been involved with AKC for as long as I have been involved with purebred dogs (since 1982).  They are not perfect, but no registry is.  I, for one, will be glad to see Rat Terriers accepted by the AKC.  I am looking forward to showing my puppy in AKC shows.  Hopefully it will happen soon.

The key to helping people choose the right breed for them, and for helping people become responsible breeders, always begins with education.  Some people are willing to learn; others are not.  It is the individual person that makes bad buying/breeding decisions.  They are the ones that hurt the breed; not AKC. JMO

Actually, there's nothing else to blame BUT the registry and the majority of the conformation show community. All these people that this video deals with are registered breeders, with purebred registered dogs, who's whole program revolves around the almighty "breed standard" the KC has put out. The standard is what is causing many of the problems. If show breeders were responsible breeders, they wouldn't breed pugs or pekes with hardly any face, Bulldogs that are stocky and have horrendus health problems because of their physical shape, and they certainly wouldn't be "culling" perfectly healthy rhodesian ridgebacks simply because they don't have a ridge - after all, ridgeless puppies aren't affected by dermoid sinus, which does affect dogs with ridges. If they were responsible breeders, they would ignore a silly peice of paper, and breed pugs and pekes with an actual face, Bulldogs that are more flexable, and would breed rhodesians without ridges.

 Yes, there are breeders who are responsible and show their dogs. But these people show dogs that have remained virtually unchanged by the KC, such as Canaan dogs, Great Pyrenees, and Salukis. You could count the Rat Terrier amoung them. As a matter of fact, I have read several comments on another forum that one of the reasons why some Pyr breeders choose the Great Pyr was because it hasn't been mutated by the Kennel Club and has thus far been kept true to form. Many breeds could be considered completely different breeds from what they originally were.

 Here's a list of German Shepherd Show winners from 1899 to 2007....

www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/siegershow_winners.html

 There isn't even a requirement for slumped hips in the standard. But at the same time, there's nothing to prevent it, is there? If the KC was aiming for healthy dogs, wouldn't they change the standard to help prevent this at the first sign of sloping hips?

Yes, dogs can be bred and shown in a responsible way, but the show ring had such a high chance of getting out of hand when conformation first became popular. The reason why working dogs didn't show many genetic problems we have today at nearly the same hogh rate and still don't, is for two reasons. One is because if a german shepherd had/has sloped hips, a Bulldog a stocky figure, or a Basset Hound incredibly short legs is because A) They died because people back then didn't have the medical means to keep a dog with such an atomically exagerated and unhealthy dog alive, and B) They couldn't do their job. Have you ever seen a german shepherd police dog from show lines? Probably not.
 All a conformation dog has to do is make it around the ring. Actually, come to think of it, in some of the dog shows I've seen, the peke's handler has picked up the dog and carried it around the rest of the way. This means that the people who right the conformation standard can mold dogs however they like, with flat faces, sloped hips, and just about any other problem. And breeders can inbreed as much as they want, with whatever genetically or tempermentaly unsound dog they want with crooked spines and bad hips, so long as the dog meets a show standard with extreme physical charactoristics.

 The AKC may 'promote' canine health as much as they wish...actually, since they incourage unhealthy standards, I should say health testing or healthy breeding. Unless they require health/temperment testing, and ban inbreeding, champion show breeders will continue to inbreed and breed unhealthy dogs, and all for the love of a paper ribbon. Yet all a dog has to have to achieve 'Championship' status in the AKC is the right conformation. The only disqualifications I've seen on any of the breed standards' I've read -if they have any disqualifications- are conformation points. The UKC at least bans "Viciousness or extreme shyness" in all of their breeds I've seen. But even so, there's no mention of health or working ability.

 I presonally think we should go back to breeding mainly for health/temperment and working instinct. If some breeder's aren't comfortable with work that involves killing animals -which is understandable- then there's earthdog trials, tracking, lure coursing, ect. And if you have a breed that was bred as a lap dog, there's agility. Even that is something. If you have a breed who's original purpose was banned (for good reason) then there's weight pulling as well as agility.

 There should be a breed standard to define the breed, but they should be changed back to what the original breed was ment to be. And tiny details should not be paid attention to, such as markings, "gaze", or even color, which do not interfere with the dog's ability to work. Such minor details generally come along with the package if you breed right.

 Either way, breeding like this needs to stop. I consider it cruelty to breed genetically unsound dogs and purposefully aflict this suffering on them, just so one can win a ribbon, while ruining the breed and perhaps even driving it to extinction.

 That's my proposal, anyway. I'll get off my soapbox now...I really had to vent after watching this.

wow... just watched it and it's pretty dang rediculous what these people can get away with!

i mean, i can kinda understand how it started with just looks because i assume they didn't know much about dogs healthwise. but we've advanced so much farther medically in the last hundred years that you just can't ignore a dog whose brain doesn't fit in its head anymore  (how naive are they?! )

you'd think that something as largely reckognized as these kennel clubs, they'd have all of these tests done to make sure it was perfect. it's insane that people who love these animals so much, can mutate them into a sickly dog that doesn't live as long as they should. all for a stupid ribbon...

just had to vent... but... WOW!

FIrst off i'd like to say hello to Doreen... How is "Fire" doing?? I've not seen you post here before so welcome if your spankin' new

I still need to watch the videos but I do want to say that most of the breeders I have spoken to or deal with are involved in not only breeding healthy sound dogs with good temperaments but they also do health testing for all or some of the following ( patellas, cardiac, hips and LCP and eyes) at great cost per dog.   If you look at the history of the Rat Terrier there is not much in the way of medical issues and responsible breeders are striving to keep it that way.. I think that there is a lot going on in the Rat Terrier breeding community to get the breed organized and ensure that they are only breeding to improve the breed by testing their dogs and shooting for the goals of retaining natural instinct AND confirmation AND health.  There is no perfect system and unfortunately ANY body can register a dog.. I think that as it was stated before that we need to work as advocates for our beloved breed to educate the general commuity about RTs and encourage people to seek out responsible breeders when they search for a pet - NOT the folks down the street with a couple of dogs they just had to breed or Heaven forbid a PET STORE!  I think too that we as responsible Rattie owners can further promote our breed through participation in competiions such as earthdog, agility, flyball etc.  Many of these are sponsored by the akc and if we can create a stage in that arena then there is the opportunity to educate and promote our wonderful breed,

Sorry this might be scattered jibberish as I am up against the clock to get to work.

 When someone breeds what ever they want without using a standard, results are seen in dogs who no longer look as the breed should, nor act like the breed should & may not have correct movement to do what they were created for .This type breeding can effect overall health , structure & character of dogs. Without a standard to follow, dogs are used to do breeding with poor temperament, incorrect size (too small or too tall) dogs of wrong color, dogs with hair too long or too short or too coarse, or dogs that lack undercoats when they should have undercoats, dogs with ears too large or too small... snouts that are too long or too short...and dogs who can not do what they were bred to do.

It's common knowledge that in the USA, over-breeding & lack of standard has taken its toll on most breeds.  I can think of some examples such as white dogs in breeds that never before had the color white until last 10 years (labs...dobermans.. great danes... boxers... german shepherds)...or you see toy breeds far larger than they should be (minature poodles weighing 25 lbs and up for example) or much smaller than they should be.  The Dalmation has suffered to the extreme of causing deafness in the breed & severe loss of the spotting gene so well known to the breed.  These are only a few examples I can think of.

In the USA each breeder is allowed to do as they choose. There are no rules to qualify for registering pups  -except the breeder pays a fee for the parents & pups to be registered .  In the USA, you can breed whatever to whatever & register those pups, as opposed to Europe where you must follow the SV  or FCI standard or your pups are not allowed to be registered.  In Europe, dogs that have faults are removed from breeding as well as their names are published for all to see, and dogs producing major faults are banned from future breeding. In Europe the dog must not only prove itself smart by earning titles, its hip status must be good and all of this is to be proven BEFORE breeding . Europe also insists & enforces DNA certification to further keep the breed true.

This is the primary reason that the majority of all police/drug/bomb german shepherd dogs are from European breeding... because their breeding restrictions are so much more strigent than in the USA.   The last german shepherd I owned had parents from West Germany and Holland, and the only way my dog's parents' litter could be registered was if the parents' (both of them) had hips that were certified.  Duchess' hips were borderline and could not be certified so if I had wanted to breed her, there would be no way I could get the pups registered. 

The Europeans created this dog...they set forth the first breed standard for this dog . Their standards have always exceeded the guide lines used by registering agencies here in USA.  European's select superior dogs to utilize this breeds many traits to help them in every day life with work .They chose traits best suited for the dogs & which always conform to breed standard.  Europeans enforce strict breed standards which call for all undesirable dogs to be removed from breeding thus stopping the undesirable traits from being further produced. The European's take dog breeding far more serious than Americans do in general. They believe in a higher standard of excellence in their dogs.  Since white, blue or liver is a disqualifying fault in Europe no one breeds or shows these colors as German Shepherds under FCI OR SV shows.  If such a pup is ever born with those colorings it is sold at a reduced rate or given away not to be bred from .

Tracey,

I know this is un-related, but I gotta tell ya I LOVE the co-pilot avatar!!  LOL... she's such a beauty!

 The video above is a UK movie that talks to British breeders. I guess all those wonderful restrictions in Europe either don't exist in the UK...or they don't work.
 Some of these show Breeders do have their dogs tested, and they do know that their dogs have health/genetic problems. They just don't care. Their whole focus revolves around the breed standard, which only deals with the way a dog looks. Europe may promote health screening just as much as the Kennel Clubs, but do they restrict breeding these dogs? Do they restrict inbreeding, which has led to many of these problems? If so, then why has 90% of genetic diversity in many breeds been lost? Although the UK has around 10,000 Pugs, their is the equivalent of only 50 individuals.
 I think many of us have been drawn into this idea that the ONLY kind of breeders that are responsible breeders are registered with some kennel club and show their dogs and match the breed standard, and that responsible breeders ONLY have a few dogs they breed, which isn't true. You don't have to be a registered breeder to do health testing, and large kennels aren't always bad. (to an extent of course....as in 20 dogs perhaps, not 100!) A larger Kennel might be a good thing for a breeding program, since a breeder has a more diverse gene pool and can choose which dogs to breed more easily without having to worry about breeding close relations...usually. And who first declared that you have to belong to some giant all breed club and show your dog? What about all the smaller breed clubs out there? Who was the first person to say that responsible breeders should conform to something written on a peice of paper?
 Yes, we do need a standard to set the general idea as to what the breed is, but it doesn't just consist of what a dog looks like, but it's also temperament, Health, and working ability. If you breed for just one thing, you're bound to run into trouble, especially if it is just for look.
 The KC is itself guilty of manipulating the original standard. Many of the dogs of today do not resemble the dogs of tomorrow.

Bullmastiff- early 1900s

2007

Labrador, 1850

2005

Bull Terrier Skull, 1930

1980

From what I have seen Europe is not all that great when it comes to breeding healthy dogs. Perhaps they do 'encourage' or 'require' health testing, but even so people there are still inbreeding and still breeding genetically unsound dogs. Although, I do think that the UK and US are the two greatest offenders.

 It's pretty late in my area, so it may seem like I'm just babbling. I don't know, I've just always not been comfortable with breeding dogs just for style purposes.

 As for the Rat Terrier, I don't think it's in danger of becoming as inbred and physically extreme as many other breeds, at least in the near future. I still don't want them accepted into the AKC though.

This is very interesting info

Hi Penny,

Yep, that was my first post on this board.  Fire is doing great!  She's almost 9 months old now and starting to settle down.  I took her to the dog park for the first time last Saturday.  She had so much fun!  I'll have to take her on a regular basis.  She loved it so much.  Fire is also starting a Puppy Enrichment class next week.  I am looking forward to it.  How are your ratties?  Take care and have a great day!

Doreen

Hi Daisysmom,

The breed will become more uniform with AKC acceptance, but only by those who are interested in conformation showing.  The standard will become whatever the parent club makes of it.  They write the standard; not AKC.  The current RTCA standard allows for all three types of ears and all colors/patterns except merle and brindle.  You can see it here at: http://www.ratterrierclub.com/standard/index.html

Doreen