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Recent 'Just Chat'
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If you need help, or have questions, comments or suggestions, please post in the Rat-Terrier.com Info and Help forum.
General Moderators:
Lance
Tracey
Training Moderator:
Nora
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You're Not Alone
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Rat-Terrier.com
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Krystian
Rattie
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| 05/22/2007 5:39 PM |
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Hi all,
I am not sure if my Harley is having some emotional probelms or if it just because she was not trained well.
Like I said in my last post; the person we got her from claimed that Harley was and is kennel trained. She has been having accidents when we kennel her during the day, both #1 and #2. Normally she will hop right in the kennel when we are leaving at which point I praise her and talk to her after I close the door. But the past couple times I have kenneled her she will whine and hit the door with her paws or head. Also when I come home from work I can hear here barking inside the house. She also destroyed her food and water bowls when they were inside her kennel. I am not sure if she is mad at us or if this just is a case of her having anxiety from us being away during the day.
When I let her out she is way excited to be let out she will tear around the house and then eventually becomes 'normal' again. Has anyone else had this issue? I am not sure what to do and it is really starting to stress both myself and my wife as well. Should I take a different approach? I was also wondering when the best time to trust her by herself inside would be, I think she would do fine outside the kennel than actually inside of it.
I love this dog to death already and I just want to do what is best for her.
Any tips or hints are appriciated, I really need help! 
Thank you in advance.
Krystian J / Harley's Daddy.
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Harley Hardcore's Daddy |
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swatson6
Attention Starved
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| 05/22/2007 5:57 PM |
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| Hopefully someone can help you with her anxiety. I had a Great Dane that did this but never was able to stop him until we got another dog to keep him company. There are a lot of smart people here to help. How old is she again? Does she get upset if you go outside or out of reach when she's not crated? If she's having accidents in the crate then I would think she would have them outside the crate too when your gone. Nora, our training moderator will check in soon I am sure, so keep checking! |
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Sarah
Mom to Jack, Jeter and foster mom to Teagan
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Krystian
Rattie
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| 05/22/2007 6:35 PM |
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She is a little over a year old. When I go outside to get something from the car and leave her in she doesn't whine or anything but she will wait by the door or run to the window and stare.
Thanks for the reply! |
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Harley Hardcore's Daddy |
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swatson6
Attention Starved
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| 05/22/2007 6:56 PM |
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| I'm not much help with this. Maybe she has a reason for her anxieties that stem from her previous owner. Hang in there, I'm sure Nora will be around to answer you.....She'll have some ideas for you! |
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Sarah
Mom to Jack, Jeter and foster mom to Teagan
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rattytatty
Newbie
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| 05/22/2007 7:41 PM |
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Hi Krystian.... I'm sorry you are having issues with Harley.
Getting the dog out of the crate and finding a location for alternate confinement is often the means to repairing the damaged instinct. If you catch the problem early, it might only take a week of alternate confinement before you can go back to the crate, but plan on putting in more time. If you return to using the crate and Harley has one or two soiling incidents, get him out of the crate again. There’s just no point in "reinforcing" that sad condition.
An alternative confinement area that works well for many dogs is a small room, such as a bathroom, with a baby gate across the doorway. If you think H arley would jump over one baby gate, stack a second one above the first to make it higher. Avoid using a closed door, because that tends to cause dogs to develop the habit of clawing up the door and the flooring at its base.
Put down some absorbent material and use a room with a floor that’s easy to clean. One approach is to cover the floor completely in newspapers, with the dog’s crate (door left open), water and food dishes on one end of the room. (Do not put the food & water in the crate... leave it outside of the crate). When Harley chooses an area to eliminate, move the crate, food and water to the opposite end of the room. Gradually reduce the papers to the area that Harley has chosen for elimination.
Keep the room very clean because you’re trying to help Harley get used to clean surroundings. If your preferred method for elimination is indoors (papers, puppy pads, dog litter box), then use it in this room. If you prefer the dog to eliminate outdoors, get the dog outdoors AS FREQUENTLY AS POSSIBLE. When Harley no longer uses the papers inside and is relieving outside all the time, you can remove the papers.
This small room confinement is a "fall-back position" for many situations in a dog’s life, including the ill or elderly dog who develops some incontinence. If Harley's physical condition is in question (a urinary tract infection for example?), always consult your veterinarian about the confinement area the dog needs. Factors that may be important include the footing (not slippery), restriction of the dog’s activity, temperature of the room, and the type of bedding.
Now... all of that having been said, sometimes the real problem is that a dog becomes overly stressed by being confined to a crate. It's always surprising to me that people often fail to recognize this. It may seem the dog has a housetraining problem, separation anxiety, or something medical going on, and crate stress isn’t considered.
It should be considered, though, and probably first thing. The popular notion is that dogs perceive crates as “dens,” like where a wolf has her pups: all warm and cozy with the feel of the nest. A crate is not a nest, though, and the natural wolf den doesn’t have the latched door of a crate. Pups start leaving the den rather young, and it’s soon abandoned. It is not a place where wolves live or even sleep.
Dogs who choose to sleep in their crates when they have a choice probably do so because of positive conditioning to the crate as a safe place where they will not be disturbed. Conditioning a dog this way is certainly possible for many dogs, when people take the time and care to do it.
If you feel H arley has become stressed about the crate and you need to be able to use a crate, consult a behavior specialist to help you condition him. During the conditioning, you may need to use some other area to confine the dog when you can’t supervise.
A dog can become stressed about crating at any point in life, sometimes from just one bad experience such as being left for too many hours when the family doesn’t make it home. In some cases the best solution is just to eliminate crating. Rehabilitation is possible, though, with the right help and plenty of patience.
Dogs need the ability to calmly accept safe confinement, since we must have safe places to leave our dogs when we cannot supervise them. Happily, for those dogs who either temporarily or permanently cannot cope with crating, there are alternative means of confinement. And for many house dogs, confinement can transition to the entire house, or most of it, by 2 to 3 years of age.
Most important advice is to try not to become frustrated or angry with Harley. I promise you that if you punish Harley for this behavior... it will get worse. Patience and a commitment to time should pay off for you and Harley both!
Good luck to you.
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Katie'sMom
Newbie
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| 05/22/2007 8:03 PM |
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| I would just like to add this to Nora's great advice --- My Katie cries when I crate her, and when she hears me return. But, if I wait outside and listen, she stops. In other words, she only does this when she knows I'm there. And, she too would get super excited about my return. I learned that instead of loving and petting and oooing and aahing over her, I would simply come in and open the crate. No extra attention, let her out and she would calm down. Not reward the over-excitement on my return. Your gut feeling is to make over them when they are like that -- but, no attention works best for Katie and me. And, if the dog is soiling the crate and there is room for feed and water bowls, I wonder if the crate is too big. The crate should only be large enough for the dog to circle around and sleep. Just a thought or two. |
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Russ' Pal
Rat-A-Tat-Tat
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| 05/22/2007 8:27 PM |
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How long has she been in your home?
She may just not be confident yet that you will return every day. If you have only had her a short time, I would try Nora's small room confinement idea, and maybe re-introduce the crate later, when she is more settled.
Russ would do the total spazz thing when I got home from work when we first adopted him. Like Jan said, just be very calm and give minimal attention until she calms down. The "excitement" probably is just from seeing you, not necessarily caused by the crate. We don't crate Russ, he had a very bad reaction to it when we first brought him home, even though he was crated at the rescue he came from. He actually chewed through the metal bars of the crate. |
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-Sarah, pal to Russ & Peca |
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Krystian
Rattie
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| 05/22/2007 8:30 PM |
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Thank you for all of the replies. I think i will try to "crate" her in the bathroom next time, we did this before we got her kennel. I think we will switch to the bathroom method and gradually try and get her to go outside a lot more.
I don't want her to relate the kennel to being alone and as a punishment.
So I think that the bathroom idea would work best for her, and as Katie's mom said I am going to try not to give her any extra praise when I let her out of the kennel.
Also when I put her back in the bathroom should I do it gradually? Or is it best just to put her in there without letting her warm up to it again?
But thanks again for all of the replies.
Just a quick note,
Aside from this issue Harley is starting to do very well with myself as well as my wife, she is starting to play a lot more and listening to my commands, she has become a great dog on the leash and even when she isn't on the leash she follows me quite close and doesn't tend to stray when we are walking without a leash. So I think she is very happy with us, aside from the separation anxiety.
Thank you all again. |
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Harley Hardcore's Daddy |
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Russ' Pal
Rat-A-Tat-Tat
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| 05/22/2007 8:39 PM |
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I would think just putting in her in the bathroom very matter of factly would be best. Try to project happy, confident energy, speak in a positive tone. And don't make eye contact as you leave.
I'm glad she's doing so well otherwise, she has a beautiful face. |
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-Sarah, pal to Russ & Peca |
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Mitzy's Mom
PAWesome
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| 05/23/2007 7:08 AM |
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| Just wanted to add that my whippet cannot be crated, she has claustriphobia and separation anxiety...we think it is partly from being crated too much (like most of the time!) when she was very young....also whippets are more prone to this. So this is sometimes an issue. We learned early on not to crate her and she was a much happier dog (and never had accidents in the house but she would in the crate.) |
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Mary Beth, mom to the Lollipop Kids
Georgia Foster Mom, www.newrattitude.org
Pics of my current fosters:
http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/caradoc
http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/fiona
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rattytatty
Newbie
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| 05/23/2007 8:17 AM |
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| I've seen situations where dogs just cannot tolerate crates because they get sooo stressed. The little schnauzer I'm working with now is kinda that way, but we're working through it. But it has taken 4 months... and I still highly doubt the little dog will ever be totally 100% crate trained. I know Nat says Cookie cannot be crated... she goes crazy when she tries to crate her. Not every thing works for every dog... each dog has his/here own personality and character traits... some can be trained out of the dog and some simply can't... and training has to be "molded" to fit the dog's personality and behavior issues. MOST behavior issues can be corrected, but the inherent nature is always there. Genetic behavior issues are VERY difficult to train out of a dog. |
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Krystian
Rattie
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| 05/23/2007 12:46 PM |
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Yeah, I think tomorrow when I leave for work I am going to move her kennel into the bathroom with the door open and put her in there.
Thank you all again!
I will update on her situation! |
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Harley Hardcore's Daddy |
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