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SuzieRedhead

Bratty Ratty

07/11/2008 9:24 AM
Now that I think I have Mickey's anxiety issues under control, I have to deal with my Kaci's issues. For years, I kept him in a metal crate while I was at work, not realizing that he chewed the bars, which broke and wore down his teeth (which was recently discovered when he had a dental). He had to have 8 teeth removed, 6 of 'em were cracked and/or broken. So I started keeping him in a plastic crate. He has damaged himself in that. I put him in a smaller plastic crate, which seems better, but he's still ripping his nose - and damaging the edges. Would it be wrong of me to put one of those basket muzzles over his face while crated? Only for the sake of protecting his little nose!! I tried putting him in a soft-sided crate and he just busted through that like it was paper, and when he's not crated, he urinates and poops all over. (I tried leaving him loose a few days, and that didn't work...) Not sure what do!! His poor little nose looks so sore!!!!!

Sue Carello, Scotia, NY (near Albany) Ratbone Rescues Fostermom, etc... www.ratbonerescues.com Fostermom to Oh Mickey (ADOPTED!), Prince and Spring Ratbone Who do YOU GoodSearch/GoodShop for? Go to www.goodsearch.com and type in Ratbone Rescues!

rattytatty

Training Moderator

07/11/2008 10:06 AM
No, its not a solution to your problem. It will stop him from chewing but not clawing. Also, the rubbing can cause sores! Muzzles are supposed to be used for short-time purposes, like at a vet's office so they can examine, give vaccines, etc... There are medications for separation anxiety. One of the good ones being Clomicalm. Ask your veterinarian what s/he recommends for this... I'm certainly no expert. Trying to get him used to a muzzle may just be too much for him, Sue... especialy if he already has "issues" a muzzle could make them worse. It would not be a good idea to put a muzzle on him and put him in the crate unattended.. if he gets hot, he cant pant to cool himself properly. He may also injure himself in the crate trying to get the muzzle off. I personally just wouldn't do it.

~Nora~ Mom to Hoss, Lil'Bit, Buster & Bailey, CGC, OA, OAJ

SuzieRedhead

Bratty Ratty

07/11/2008 10:11 AM
Yeah you're right, Nora. I had my own doubts, and that's why I asked. But I just feel so bad for him!! My vet did prescribe Clomicalm, but I haven't given it to him. I don't want to drug him. I thought about getting on of those more sturdy carry on bags, to see if that isn't better - it seems sturdier than a soft-sided crate and smaller. He seems more secure in a smaller crate. I'm also going to get a refill for my DAP diffuser (that phermone thingy) and get a kong just for him and fill it and freeze it every day. I want to try everything before I resort to drugs for him.

Sue Carello, Scotia, NY (near Albany) Ratbone Rescues Fostermom, etc... www.ratbonerescues.com Fostermom to Oh Mickey (ADOPTED!), Prince and Spring Ratbone Who do YOU GoodSearch/GoodShop for? Go to www.goodsearch.com and type in Ratbone Rescues!

SuzieRedhead

Bratty Ratty

07/11/2008 10:12 AM
Thanks, Nora! (Didn't want to forget to thank you!!)

Sue Carello, Scotia, NY (near Albany) Ratbone Rescues Fostermom, etc... www.ratbonerescues.com Fostermom to Oh Mickey (ADOPTED!), Prince and Spring Ratbone Who do YOU GoodSearch/GoodShop for? Go to www.goodsearch.com and type in Ratbone Rescues!

maggiew607

Terrier Terror

07/11/2008 10:22 AM
Sue, I know this was a question for Nora, but I'm nosey so I had to look...lol. I saw a crate at a local pet store that may be good for him, but I've only seen it one time. You put the pup in from the top and the wire/mesh is very small, almost creating a sunroof type atmosphere. It also has small strips of the small mesh so they can look out. It seemed really sturdy and was made of plastic, but it was smooth. I'm trying to look it up now, as I have no idea who made it. Would something like that maybe be better.

Maggie, Mom to CoCo and Angus

rattytatty

Training Moderator

07/11/2008 10:30 AM
Crating a dog that is suffering from REAL separation anxiety often isn't the answer. I realize your dilemma, Sue... not a good place for you OR the dog to be in, unfortunately. Meds may end up being your only option... but I commend you on exhausting every other resource first. The booklet, "The Dog That Cannot Be Left Alone" is available free of charge from Cycle Pet Care Center, P.O. Box 9001, Chicago, Illinois 60604-9001. It's a wonderful resource, and I would advise that you get it. When I crate train a dog, I use the hard plastic crates that have the wire "pee holes" towards the top of it. They are much less likely to do damage to themselves in one of these. The door is wire though.... so a dog who goes crazy when left alone could still hurt him(her)self. There are steps you can take to help your dog overcome his fears. I wish I were there to help you... but I'm not. A dog who suffers from real separation anxiety is truly a sad situation, and one that is really hard to deal with. We humans feel very helpless in these types of situations.

~Nora~ Mom to Hoss, Lil'Bit, Buster & Bailey, CGC, OA, OAJ

rattytatty

Training Moderator

07/11/2008 10:32 AM
Not "pee holes"..... I meant "PEEP holes" .... geez...

~Nora~ Mom to Hoss, Lil'Bit, Buster & Bailey, CGC, OA, OAJ

Philo

Terrier Terror

07/11/2008 10:37 AM
Posted By rattytatty on 07/11/2008 10:32 AM Not "pee holes"..... I meant "PEEP holes" .... geez... Good for a morning laugh Nora...are you sure you didn't plan it, or perhaps a Freudian? And the question remains...what happened to the edit button?

Rattie Daddy to Cameo, Nala Belle, Cutter & Rattagan (aka Philo) "Beauty such as this is a gift, and I'm often in awe of this world we've been given." Mrs Bonnie

Mitzy's Mom

PAWesome

07/11/2008 10:40 AM
Very true, it's so sad when they get that upset. It is the very reason we have 4 dogs...our daughter's whippet lives with us because she could not be left alone in Glenna's apartment...she would go crazy when crated; crazy when left in the bathroom (tore the door almost down!), crazy when left loose in the apartment....continous barking for hours on end and pacing, panting, etc. The only thing we've found to keep her calm is letting her loose in the house WITh another dog for company. Obviously not the answer in Sue's situation...just saying I understand how upset these dogs get.

Mary Beth, mom to the Lollipop Kids Georgia Foster Mom, www.newrattitude.org Pics of my current fosters: http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/caradoc http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/fiona

SuzieRedhead

Bratty Ratty

07/11/2008 10:46 AM
Posted By maggiew607 on 07/11/2008 10:22 AM Sue, I know this was a question for Nora, but I'm nosey so I had to look...lol. I saw a crate at a local pet store that may be good for him, but I've only seen it one time. You put the pup in from the top and the wire/mesh is very small, almost creating a sunroof type atmosphere. It also has small strips of the small mesh so they can look out. It seemed really sturdy and was made of plastic, but it was smooth. I'm trying to look it up now, as I have no idea who made it. Would something like that maybe be better. YES!! If you can find it, PLEASE post it!! Thanks!

Sue Carello, Scotia, NY (near Albany) Ratbone Rescues Fostermom, etc... www.ratbonerescues.com Fostermom to Oh Mickey (ADOPTED!), Prince and Spring Ratbone Who do YOU GoodSearch/GoodShop for? Go to www.goodsearch.com and type in Ratbone Rescues!

SuzieRedhead

Bratty Ratty

07/11/2008 10:54 AM
The whole bizzare thing is........ he went YEARS with this and I had no idea. Chewing the metal apparently eased his anxiety....... and I was clueless. I feel so bad!! He's been a different dog since Sasha's death in February. Subtly but definitely different. I think he misses her strong presence. I think she made him feel secure and safe. He was the only dog she never fought with. I think his anxiety has gotten worse since her death. Thanks for the info, Nora. I will get that publication.

Sue Carello, Scotia, NY (near Albany) Ratbone Rescues Fostermom, etc... www.ratbonerescues.com Fostermom to Oh Mickey (ADOPTED!), Prince and Spring Ratbone Who do YOU GoodSearch/GoodShop for? Go to www.goodsearch.com and type in Ratbone Rescues!

rattytatty

Training Moderator

07/11/2008 10:54 AM
That might be the type of crate I'm referring to... not sure. I'll post a picture.

~Nora~ Mom to Hoss, Lil'Bit, Buster & Bailey, CGC, OA, OAJ

rattytatty

Training Moderator

07/11/2008 10:57 AM
Here's a link to the type of crate I'm referring to... not sure if it's the same type Maggie is referring to or not... http://www.dog.com/item/petmate-vari-kennel-traditional-pet-crate-sml/ This may... or may not... be a crate you have already tried.

~Nora~ Mom to Hoss, Lil'Bit, Buster & Bailey, CGC, OA, OAJ

SuzieRedhead

Bratty Ratty

07/11/2008 11:06 AM
Yeah, the one he's in is very similar. I think he does the damage to his nose on the door, though. He does settle down because when I get home at night, they're all quiet. I have driven by the house during my lunch hour (a 20 minute drive!), just to check to see if they're barking - and it's always been quiet. My poor quirky Kaci. He's definitely an odd one lol But I love him...........

Sue Carello, Scotia, NY (near Albany) Ratbone Rescues Fostermom, etc... www.ratbonerescues.com Fostermom to Oh Mickey (ADOPTED!), Prince and Spring Ratbone Who do YOU GoodSearch/GoodShop for? Go to www.goodsearch.com and type in Ratbone Rescues!

gwacie

Rat-A-Tat-Tat

07/11/2008 11:42 AM
Sue, do you give him something to chew on while he's in the crate? Like a heavy duty stuffed kong? Something he can't swallow or destroy but that can ease his stress? I know chewing is a big stress reliever for dogs. Also soothing music or other white noise, cover his crate or keep in a dark area, have you tried any of that? Just thinking. Years ago one of my fosters had this and I didn't know how bad it was until one day when I went out front to get the mail and got stopped chatting to a neighbor. This poor boy was so stressed that by the time I got back inside he had EATEN the coffee table (well a good chunk of it). He never did stuff like that when we were there or when he was locked up but boy talk about stress chewing!

gwacie (Bethany) My Doggies: http://www.myadams.net/dogs/ Rescue: http://www.newrattitude.org

SuzieRedhead

Bratty Ratty

07/11/2008 11:55 AM
I had a Kong, but I can't seem to find it. I think it's out in the backyard somewhere... so I'm going to stop after work tonight and buy another one and buy some of that Kong stuffin stuff. I'm also going to pick up some of that DAP diffuser refill stuff, too. Guess it can't hurt, right? I figured if the stuff inside is frozen, it will take more time for him to chew and get at it. I am hoping that will also help alleviate his stress, poor boy!! Kaci's very oral - he is ALWAYS carrying stuff around in his mouth - I find shoes, socks, slippers, washcloths, dishtowels, you name it.......outside all the time. I have no idea how he gets past me with 'em LOL.... I once found my Oil of Olay bottle downstairs in the livingroom!! I have NO idea how he got that! LOL... He's definitely an odd duck........LOL

Sue Carello, Scotia, NY (near Albany) Ratbone Rescues Fostermom, etc... www.ratbonerescues.com Fostermom to Oh Mickey (ADOPTED!), Prince and Spring Ratbone Who do YOU GoodSearch/GoodShop for? Go to www.goodsearch.com and type in Ratbone Rescues!

SuzieRedhead

Bratty Ratty

07/11/2008 11:57 AM
Oh and I always leave the radio on and have a fan going.... and I've put him in a much smaller crate, so he feels more secure (I hope!)

Sue Carello, Scotia, NY (near Albany) Ratbone Rescues Fostermom, etc... www.ratbonerescues.com Fostermom to Oh Mickey (ADOPTED!), Prince and Spring Ratbone Who do YOU GoodSearch/GoodShop for? Go to www.goodsearch.com and type in Ratbone Rescues!

rattytatty

Training Moderator

07/11/2008 2:23 PM
It has always amazed me how dogs act so differently when they are alone than when they are with their humans. I never will forget the ONE time I left all of my dogs alone in the house for no more than an hour, including Bailey who is always crated in my absence. I got home to find an entire bunch of bananas (7) eaten... peeling and all... by Bailey. He had been on the kitch counter. I called my vet... so afraid he'd get sick. He looked like a miniature goodyear blimpe on stilts! He never got sick though... NO WAY would he do such a thing in my presence. It's like they turn into different characters when we leave them. :=)

~Nora~ Mom to Hoss, Lil'Bit, Buster & Bailey, CGC, OA, OAJ

singingpilgrim

Ratastic

07/19/2008 8:03 PM
I feel for you, Sue. Our dog Radar has seperation anxiety too, but very mild comparatively. We cannot leave him outside alone, even with another dog. So we have to be with him at all times if we take him out back or even on the porch. But inside he's fine. Well, when we leave he often goes into the living room, which is a big no-no, but other than that... But the reason I mention it is because he only got this way after my dog Molly died about four years ago. Actually, Molly died the night before my high school graduation and while he grieved, he didn't go crazy until after I went to college. Molly had been kind of alpha to him, but I'd been alpha to Molly. So apparently while he was grieving her, as long as I was around, it wasn't so bad. But when I left... sigh... I still feel kind of guilty about that. I hope that Mickey will get better with time. Radar hasn't really, though I'm trying (I'll leave him outside for twenty seconds or so and then come right back to show him I won't leave... I've not been able to leave him longer though, because he's already trembling from that. And he can JUMP (he's jumped our couch, longways, in a single bound) and while he's NEVER jumped the fence when we're there, he's jumped it when left alone... and then promptly goes and sits on the front stoop waiting to be let in. I was hoping, a little, that getting Sophia would help him. Maybe it will. But so far, both dogs are just people happy-- they like each other okay but they'd rather have a person than another dog any day.

Pamela ~Sophia Abigail's Mom~ Ratbones Rescue Volunteer

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