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Subject: Lifelong dog owner, but new to Rat Terriers
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Chelseadad


Newbie
Newbie
06/23/2008 11:08 AM  

A little backgroud first. I've spent most of my life around dogs. I grew-up with English Setters, we moved onto Autralian Shepherds after we moved to smaller confines. I had a wonderful Bull Terrier for 12 years. After marrying, we had a dog purported to be a Jack Russell, but she was more of a Fox Terrier Mix. She passed away about 10 months ago after 9 wonderful years.

My wife never had dogs, and "Bridgette", our JRT mix was her first experience. In all honesty, I took a back seat to her...

In researching a new member of the family, we decided that the Rat Terrier best met our desires and about 3 weeks ago we found a wonderful little 8.5 week old female we named 'Chelsea" after the worlds finest football team (my choice).

While she's been an absolute joy, she has several tendencies that I've not encountered with our other dogs.

1. Incessant chewing on fingers, noses and anything else that is within reach of her mouth

2. She doesn't seem to be able to sleep throught the night (goes to bed around 10.00 and awakes around 03.30) to go to the bathroom, then sleeps again until 06.00.

All of my previous dogs, once asleep at night, slept until 07.00 after going to bed at 10.00ish, even when only 9-10 weeks old.

Several things:. She sleeps in a crate next to our bed, we withhold food and water after 07.00. In regard to nipping, gnawing and attacking the nose- my wife and daughter (13 yrs) both tell her no and substitute a chew toy. I'm from the old school (I guess) and flick her on the snout with my finger, tell her no and growl in a deep voice. She no longer nips me, although she mouths my fingers gently (which I allow).

All of my other dogs (even the extremely stubborn Bully) accepted me as the Alpha Male and the JRT mix accepted my wife as the Alpha Female by accident, but this little girl seems to have a little more attitude. I've tried to convince my wife to establish dominance now as opposed to later, but have been unable to get her to realize that very minor corporal punishment is not a bad thing and that pack animals use very minor amounts of it in establishing their dominance. We never use our hands and "spank" her, but a loud, low growl/bark really gets her attention combined with eye contact and baring teeth. She thinks I'm crazy, but it's always worked with the other dogs I've ben around (6 at this point)....

Are there any good books out there that promote the "pack animal" type of training as opposed to the "New Age" soft approach? I've met dogs trained in this "softer, kinder" manner and even one's that have been through expensive, drawn-out training schools and was not impressed at all. Some of the best trained dogs I've met are those trained by old ranchers doing it the "old-school" way- establish dominance, give the dog a "job" ,praise good behavior and punish bad.

In regard to the sleep issue- I told her NOT to get up and "reward" the puppy when she cries, rather ignore her. She thinks I'm being cruel  Any words of advice here? This lack of sleep is a little rough.

Thanks in advance

Chelsea's Dad

 

Yukon Cornelius


Terrier Terror
Terrier Terror
06/23/2008 11:16 AM  

     Hi and welcome!  I am not able to help with your training questions, but I am sure that once Nora, our training moderator, (or someone with more experience than I have) sees this they will respond with helpful suggestions.  This is a great site with lots of helpful people.  Oh, we love puppy pictures, LOTS of pictures.

     Again, welcome to the site.

 

Yukon Cornelius


We'll have to outwit the fiend with our superior intelligence.

http://lordmarley08.googlepages.com/home
bluedog


Rat Royalty
Rat Royalty
06/23/2008 11:20 AM  
I recommend Be the Pack Leader by Cesar Millan.

Congrats on your new puppy! I adopted my rattie at 4 years of age. My last puppy was about 14 years ago so I am not of much help. I do practice alpha behavior with both dogs (rattie and lab) every chance I get. I do like Cesar (dog whisperer) because he encourages exercise, discipline and affection. Discipline is clearly defined as correction and not punishment. His techniques work very well with my dogs.

Your wife needs to be careful of treating your puppy like a child. Loving, playing and being "mommy" is okay as long as you balance that out with exercise and discipline. If you treat them as you would a human, you could end up with a monster.

Post some pictures!

Christine
Mom to Michael & Charlotte
Moose (lab), Paisley (rattie), Clark & Lois (tolerant kitties)
rattytatty


Training Moderator
Training Moderator
06/23/2008 11:22 AM  
Try (and I know it's difficult) not to compare Chelsea with other breeds.... ones you've owned and even ones you haven't owned, as each breed is different, and each personality within each breed is different. One size does not fit all...

These are highly intelligent dogs for the most part, and they are also very "human oriented" and prefer to be with their humans 24/7 if possible. "The Other End of the Leash" is a very good book, and the author is entertaining. You do need to establish a "no nonsense" type of approach with Chelsea, but this can be done while making it fun and interesting for her. You are wise to crate train her, and I'm sure I don't need to tell you what an advantage that will be!

Sounds like you are doing what you should be doing. Chelsea is very young yet, but certainly not too young to be learning her boundaries, and it sounds like you are establishing those. It will just take time and because of the VERY strong desire of these dogs to want to be with their people... it may simply take longer.

As far as sleeping through the night? That simply may not be in the cards yet. If after a few nights you become relatively certainly that she does NOT need to go potty... quit responding to her whimpers. Also, covering her crate might help...

Post some pictures of her!

~Nora~
Mom to Hoss, Lil'Bit, Buster & Bailey, CGC, OA, OAJ
DaisysMom


Moderator
<b>Moderator</b>
06/23/2008 11:24 AM  
I agree that Nora will be able to offer you some guidance on these issues. Your pup should be old enough to hold it all night and is likely only asking for attention (and getting it), especially since you aren't feeding/watering after 7:00 pm.

Tracey - Darlin' Daisy's Mom

rattytatty


Training Moderator
Training Moderator
06/23/2008 11:33 AM  
I have an 8-year old doxie who has NEVER been able to "hold it" all night... so just because you feel a dog SHOULD be able to doesn't mean they WILL be able to. But yes... on an average, a dog by age 3 months should be able to do so.

I think the key is determining whether she really is seeking attention or if she really needs to go potty. Once you establish the reasoning... you'll be able to deal with the behavior.

~Nora~
Mom to Hoss, Lil'Bit, Buster & Bailey, CGC, OA, OAJ
treble02


Alpha Feist
Alpha Feist
06/23/2008 11:43 AM  
My youngest is 8 months tomorrow and makes it from about 10pm until about 5am...my alarm goes off at 5:50, but I take him hout when he wakes up and starts running around the bed...i dont want him to potty in the bed...
i wonder if her bladder is just much smaller and or more sensitive to your past dogs....
Welcome to the wonderful world of ratties!!!!! I bet once you figure all this out, you will fall in LOVE with little Chelsea! The poeple on this site have great advice and truly LOVE the breed! Youre in good hands here!
We would love to see pics of your little one!
Also, about the biting thing, try bully sticks..great for chewing and biting urges!! good luck and hang in there...its SO worth it!

~ Mary, Trixi and Toa's Mommy,
Ratbone Rescues Database Manager
and Applications Coordinator

theniffs


Obsessed
Obsessed
06/24/2008 9:50 AM  

We were having problems with Pixel with the biting. We tried when she was doing it too hard to just say ouch in a high pitched voice. It worked at first but then she got worse. You would say it then she would continue and do it harder. At one point she nearly got attacked by my husbands cat because he wanted to protect him from Pixel.

My husband decided we need to not let her bite humans at all. If she bites we tell her no bite and stop play and hold her and not give her any toys. After a few minutes we let her down again. Honestly it seems to be working rather well.

 

As far as potty in the middle of the night. She is probably just too young. Pixel is now about 12.5 weeks and she can sleep through the night. But I get up for work at 5:45 if I dont take her immediately she will have an accident in the crate (learned this yesterday). With Pixel she just got to the point where she wasnt whining in the middle of the night. I read that if they whine you take them and say potty, dont pet or kiss or play or anything. If in 5 mins they dont go take them back in and put them back in the crate. If they go also dont get them all riled up either because then they will have problems settling down for sleep again.

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