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Daxter

Ratastic

06/17/2008 11:44 AM
My dog Daxter won't come if I call him. He just looks at me and ignoring me unless there is treat involves.I read Nora's recall training and I been train him to come to me. He is good when he saw the treat and hungry - I train before dinner, but ignore me when he is inside the house and his stomach is full. Outside is a different story, when he is off leash he stays close to me and keep looking at me and he come when I call him if he happened to wander around. Sometimes he looks scared too - his tail between his leg when he roam around the house mostly after his meal and things are quiet down. I wonder what makes him do that and how to makes him comfortable and not scared when I call him inside the house? Any advice?

Monica & Daxter

rattytatty

Training Moderator

06/17/2008 12:02 PM
Usually the issue is just the opposite of what you describe -- dogs come promptly when called when in the house, but when they are outside they tend NOT to come as quickly. I hope you are working him outside on the recall command on a long line... the key is not to give the dog an opportunity NOT to come. Not being there, I'm unable to see what is triggering the behavior (why he has his tail ducked between his legs). It's almost as though something in the house is intimidating or threatening him... making him feel insecure. Try this: Sit on a chair with a bag of tasty treats with Daxter close up to you, say his name and immediately give him a treat when he looks up. Within a few repetitions he will look expectantly at you as soon as he hears his name. Don't ask him to come... just say his name and treat him. Then... say his name and encourage him to take one or two paces towards you before giving him the treat. Build up the distance between you and him gradually and practice in all rooms of the house. Do NOT tell him to come... this is just to teach him that whenever he hears his name.. regardless of where he is at the time, there is always a pleasant outcome for responding to it. Work on this for several weeks. Make whatever treat you have for him worth more to him than NOT coming to you. Make it fun.. along with the treat, praise him and show him LOTS of affection to help build up his confidence. I'm thinking that because his tail is between his legs, he is not feeling confident. Teach him that coming to you is the most fun thing ever! After several weeks of doing this every day .. for not more than 5-10 minutes at a time... then you can add the "come" command.

~Nora~ Mom to Hoss, Lil'Bit, Buster & Bailey, CGC, OA, OAJ

Daxter

Ratastic

06/17/2008 12:18 PM
Thanks Nora, I will try your suggestions. I am thinking he is afraid at home and me because he is not comfortable. I got him for 1 1/2 months and then I left for work out of town for 4 days and he stays with a friend. When I came pick him up he is happy and then that night he suddenly scared when roaming around the house. It's like in the beginning when I just got him. Is that because I left him too soon so he feels like he is been bounce around from house to house? I will keep you posted.

Monica & Daxter

RatsRule!

Ratastic

06/17/2008 12:54 PM
Well, I don't want to go against anything Nora says, because I think she's great, but.... I presonally don't do treat training- especially for recall. I wish I could explain it as well as our trainer had, but dogs often become disinterested in treats and then don't perform the commands you give. And since recall, is THE most important command of all, if your dog isn't interested in the treat and he doesn't come - this is not good! Our trainer emphasized that your dog should listen to your commands because you gave a command- period. So, a couple of suggestions- - Get Daxter into some obedience classes, if you haven't already. This can really help with his confidence levels. - Omit the treat training- IF you are comfortable with that. I'm not trying to push any method on anyone- I just agree with our trainer. I did away with treat training the night we started her classes with Chloe in March and had no problems transitioning from treats to none. I also eliminated that word from our house altogether. - One thing I learned from our trainer is that the important thing is that he has successes! Even if they are little, or short recalls, make sure he succeeds, then work on longer distances between you, in different settings, with different distractions etc. And ALWAYS prasie him for his hard work and successes. - Practice, precatice, practice. Every time you think of it on a walk, at a dog park, in the house, what have you, keep practicing. The more successes he has, the more confindent he will become. Remember to show him that you have confidence in him too. This will go a long way with his training! I promise. I don't know what to say about the looking scarred. My Chloe will often display submissive behavior when called in the house (not outside) and from everything I've read, it's a sign of respect. She's letting me know she knows I'm top dog. Which is good. But I can't have her dropping to her back when I call her in the house either, so, what I do is look for her signs that she's about to drop, then I just calmly but firmly tell her no, Chloe come. If she doesn't respond to this. I walk to her, make her get up, put her in a sit/stay, then go back to where I was and call her to come again. She usually gets it right the second time. I praise her, and have noticed that this is becoming less and less frequent now. What I've also learned in training is to be consistant, patient, have confindence in your dog. When they are wrong, correct them. Make them do what you want/tell them to. There are lots, and lots of good books out there. So, I 'd also suggest reading and reading up on this. Between this site, our trainer and books I've learned a lot. Then, take what you want from what you hear/read and apply it in a way that works for you, that fits your style. Not every method is for every dog/body. I wish you luck and great success with Daxter. Hang in there. You guys will get through this! Keep us posted on how things go.

rattytatty

Training Moderator

06/17/2008 1:37 PM
I think MUCH depends on the temperment of the dog... or pup. Not every method works for every dog. The german shepherds I've trained were easily corrected, and their temperments were such that I could force the required behavior if need be -- with or without treats. Often the use of a toy works in lieu of treats too. Sometimes.. I used nothing at all other than praise and affection. With Bailey... and honestly with many other rat terriers I've come in contact with... he has a very sensitive nature. If I were to force correction on him, I would ruin him. I could easily break his spirit. I choose the operant method of training with this particular dog simply because it works best. You need to try various methods and find the method that works best for you and your furry friend.

~Nora~ Mom to Hoss, Lil'Bit, Buster & Bailey, CGC, OA, OAJ

rattytatty

Training Moderator

06/17/2008 1:54 PM
I can MAKE a dog do just about anything I want them to do. I think it's important to make a dog WANT to do what I want it to do...in a positive, rewarding way... whatever that positive, rewarding way entails...\ Not disagreeing with you totally, Terri... but somewhat agreeing to disagree! LOL

~Nora~ Mom to Hoss, Lil'Bit, Buster & Bailey, CGC, OA, OAJ

Daxter

Ratastic

06/17/2008 2:00 PM
I agree. At this point all the suggestions that I got it't really appreciated and I will try each one of them and from there I can decided which one is work and which one is not. The main goal is to make Daxter come to me when I called and not scared of me anymore

Monica & Daxter

RatsRule!

Ratastic

06/17/2008 3:30 PM
From Nora's post: I can MAKE a dog do just about anything I want them to do. I think it's important to make a dog WANT to do what I want it to do...in a positive, rewarding way... whatever that positive, rewarding way entails...\ Not disagreeing with you totally, Terri... but somewhat agreeing to disagree! LOL I hear exactly what you are saying Nora!! I hope I didn't imply that anyone force their dog to obey their commands. The trainging I do with Chloe is all about positive reinforcement and reward!! Lots of praise and hugs and rubs and play time as rewards rather than treats is what we do. It works for us, but may not for others. You have to find what works for you and your dog/s. The one thing I forgot to add- and I've found this to be very helpful in recall and think it ties into exactly what Nora was saying here- when you are calling your dog- it should be in a friendly tone of voice- not demanding. You want your dog to want to come to you! My neighbor took the same class we did, and never has any success with recalling thier dog because their always trying to recall him with an angry demanding voice. Who wants to come to that??! Good luck with your training. I'm sure it will work out fine!

alice4512

Firehouse Big Dog

06/17/2008 4:23 PM
All I really have to contribute is this: Both my dogs when coming from rescue were very insecure. When we are just with them we pet them and let them know they are loved. We do not correct bad behavior so to speak but reinforce the good behavior or what we want. So when the dogs were doing something I didn't like either a NO or ignore. When the did the desired behavior LOTS of praise. So maybe when Daxter is coming into the house and until he is in just nothing but Good Boys for him with pets and hugs when he gets there. Just my two cents.

The great pleasure of a dog is that you may make a fool of yourself with him and not only will he not scold you, but he will make a fool of himself too ~Mom to my good boy Fred and my crazy girl Alice~ Proud applications coordinator for Ratbone Rescue

rattytatty

Training Moderator

06/18/2008 9:10 AM
I have never owned a rescue dog, but I would think from talking with many who have (including a good friend who has 10 of them because she can't part with any of them.. LOL)... it does seem many of them come with "baggage" to be dealt with. I think many of them end up very unstable and insecure because of all they've been through, and that's why the affection, praise... yummy treats (ANYthing positive) is so extremely important to the overall well-being of the dog. I wouldn't ask a lot of Daxter when he's in the house... just let him be comfortable in his own "skin" for awhile. If he's walking around with his tail between his legs... he's obviously not confident or comfortable with his surroundings yet.

~Nora~ Mom to Hoss, Lil'Bit, Buster & Bailey, CGC, OA, OAJ

Daxter

Ratastic

06/18/2008 11:30 AM
I try to give him treats last night and also lots of praise and play with him, so he is warming up to me. When I ate my dinner he shows interest and follow me around with wagging tail and suddenly his tail back down. I didn't say anything if that happened just watch him, when his tail back up again I praise and talked to him. I give him a little bit of chicken from my dinner after I finish, I know it's bad because it's encouraging him to beg for leftover but for now I let him be just so he is comfortable. I also play with him when I give him treats, by putting greenie in front of his nose and then I ran around the house while I praiise and talked to him so he follow me, his starting to show his interest on me and play with his toys too even though just a little but I am happy. So far what you guys suggested is works - thanks!. When I called his name and he ignore me, do I need to call his name again and again, I read on the internet, that is not good because in some ways I letting him know that is OK for him not to come when I call him the first time. So if I said his name and ignore it should I approached him?

Monica & Daxter

pepper

Ratastic

06/18/2008 5:41 PM
Monica, your last sentence says it all. The hardest part is figuring out what to do if they don't come when called. If you pull them or yell, it will reinforce their desire to stay put. Once Daxter is playing with you and enjoys interacting with you, one thing you can do is run away. He will get excited and "chase." When he catches up, you can praise, etc. This worked for Pepper. You'd only have to take 2 steps, and she was running to you like you had a steak in front of her. Like Teri said too, you could also go to the dog, and get him into a sit/stay, then try again for the come command. Pepper liked to play chase too much, so this did not work for us. She would run away and hide. It REALLY depends on the dog. These little guys are too smart for their own good and all different, so if something's not working, try something else. There are a ton of people on this site that all have trained things different ways. If you run out of ideas, I'm sure we can come up with more!

Kristin ~ Pepper's mommy

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