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Subject: Addressing the email I received...
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rattytatty


Training Moderator
Training Moderator
06/03/2008 8:56 AM  

I'm responding to one individual... but want to make this response available to  all forum members (at least for those who might be interested).

I have been "accused" of coming across that it is mandatory for all dogs to be "rigidly obedient". 

It is difficult to rate the importance of basic manners. Personally I like dogs who can enjoy being dogs without being a bother to other people or other dogs. On the other hand, many people happily live with dogs without any formal training whatsoever. If you consider your dog to be perfect for you, make your own choice. But if you or other people find your dog's behavior to be annoying, why not teach him how to behave? Indeed, a simple sit prevents the majority of annoying behavior problems, including jumping up, dashing through doorways, running away, bothering people, chasing its tail, chasing the cat, etc. The list is long! It is so much easier to teach your dog how to act from the outset by teaching the one right way - sitting - rather than trying to correct the many things he does wrong.  Regardless, it would be unfair to get on your dog's case for bad manners if he is only breaking rules he didn't know existed.  Unfortunately, I've found this to often be the case.

Training can improve your relationship with your dog.  Obedience...regardless of whether this is simply practical obedience to help your dog fit better with your human pack.. or if you wish to compete in obedience trials.... helps you gain trust in your dog and certainly helps your dog gain trust in you and respect you.  It is MY OPINION  that we as dog owners have a responsibility to make sure that our dogs are well behaved members of our society.  A dog that is taught to pay attention and to follow certain commands is usually more secure, and certainly much safer than a dog that is not well schooled.  Why not help give your dog confidence that you know what is going on so that the dog can rely on you to give it direction?  Doesn't that help reduce anxiety in both dog and owner?

I've owned dogs that are not as highly trained as other dogs I've owned.  For me... it depends on what my goals are.  My dachshunds are not highly trained.  They have been trained with the basics (come.. sit... down... etc.),  and are sociable with people and dogs alike (in any setting)...but beyond these commands, they are merely companion dogs and that's all I expect of them.   I have different goals for Bailey (my rat terrier) and he is much more highly trained.  There is no way to compete in a dog sport without having a highly trained dog.

So it depends on what your goals are.  To have NO goals for my dogs is simply not an option for me.  It may be for you... and that's a personal choice each of us have to make for ourselves. 

It is never my intent to offend or come across as a "know-it-all" because I don't have all the answers and hope that I never come across that way.  If I have... I apologize.   I am NOT a professional dog trainer, but have trained obedience for 12 years with a professional trainer and have had clients of my own with various breeds throughout the years.  I've taken a canine behaviorist course and am scheduled to take another one.  So although I'm not an "expert"... I'm not stupid either, and it's my opinion that I'd rather speak from experience than from textbooks.

Thanks...

 


~Nora~
Mom to Hoss, Lil'Bit, Buster & Bailey, CGC, OA, OAJ
gwacie


Rat-A-Tat-Tat
Rat-A-Tat-Tat
06/03/2008 9:11 AM  
I personally hope you never stop talking about training. My dogs fit in the 'mostly reasonable but not always' category of training, which works for us most of the time. BUT every post you make about training has taught me something or reminded me of something I should do more consistently. We have seen SO many poorly trained dogs in rescue that may have been kept by their owners if they had put one minute of effort into behavior modification for their pup. People need to know that dogs don't come trained - they require effort. HOW much training one gives a dog is certainly a choice, but surely it's wise to consider all training options.

I never understand folks getting all upset over things posted in a forum. It seems like such a waste of energy. You read, you agree, you disagree, whatever, but to get OFFENDED? Over a position on TRAINING? Save your offense for the things that matter (animal, child, spouse abuse etc). If you don't agree with a post someone makes you can respond in a responsible debate fashion, or you can walk away from the keyboard and agree to disagree. But to be offended by someone who has a different perspective is a waste of energy, IMO (and you are free to disagree with me!).

gwacie (Bethany)
My Doggies: http://www.myadams.net/dogs/
Rescue: http://www.newrattitude.org
swatson6


Attention Starved
Attention Starved
06/03/2008 9:15 AM  
You know there is always one out there Nora. You are the training moderator here for a reason,your good at what you do. And with any advice given, it can be followed or not, but I agree with Bethany......to get offended is ridiculous! I hope you don't let one person affect the work you do, and if I know you it sure won't!!

Sarah
Mom to Jack, Jeter and foster mom to Teagan



wmars1776


Terrier Terror
Terrier Terror
06/03/2008 9:17 AM  
Hey Nora.......just consider the source!!!

Bill - "Smokey's" Dad
Cumberland, Rhode Island

"To everything, there is a season"
www.myspace.com/wmars1776
Mitzy's Mom


PAWesome
PAWesome
06/03/2008 9:19 AM  
I appreciate all your advice Nora, you have never come across as a "know it all" in my opinion. I think anyone who is very experienced at what they do and is giving advice on the topic could be perceived as a "know it all" to those who make no effort to learn or become informed.

Just my opinion. Don't let an email from anyone bother you!

Mary Beth, mom to the Lollipop Kids

Georgia Foster Mom, New Rattitude
Check out our ratties at www.newrattitude.org
rattytatty


Training Moderator
Training Moderator
06/03/2008 9:20 AM  

It won't affect what I do.... or how I feel about training our dogs in the general sense of the word. I'm certainly not losing sleep over it by any stretch of the imagination. But this individual took the time... a second time... to email me in a rather "accusing" manner, and I wanted my response to be broad-based enough so that my explanation could be read by several.

I'm well aware that I am in the minority on how I feel concerning training our canine furry friends, and I'm comfortable in my "skin" concerning this particular subject.   I'm adamant that our dogs need to fit well in our families and in our society... and I've seen so many that simply don't. My intent is to be helpful... not argumentative or to come across with a "holier than thou" attitude, because I'm certainly not perfect and don't have all answers to all issues.

Enough said...


~Nora~
Mom to Hoss, Lil'Bit, Buster & Bailey, CGC, OA, OAJ
garyjena


Terrier Terror
Terrier Terror
06/03/2008 9:33 AM  
Nora, you are an asset to this forum and to me. I have come to rely on you for the advice I need to raise my two healthy, happy dogs. Keep up the GREAT work!

www.newrattitude.org
Pet Publicist, Adopt A Pet
Volunteer Coordinator
Database Maintenance
HV and TR
DaisysMom


Moderator
<b>Moderator</b>
06/03/2008 9:34 AM  
Nora: I have never found your posts on training issues to at all convey the tone that all dogs must be rigidly obedient. Frankly, I think you do a very good job of trying to help those who come here with issues or problems with their dogs, and have witnessed numerous times you going above and beyond the "call of duty", as it were, to assist those in desperate situations.

I could go on and on about what a wonderful job you do and the service you provide (free of charge, I might add), but I shouldn't have to, and it would be pointless for those who think otherwise anyway, as they will think what they want.

I've seen too many pictures of Bailey being "just a dog" to think he's nothing more than a highly trained robot. And no rigidly obedient dog is going to take as much care as Bailey does with nursing home patients either. So, obviously, if Bailey is an example of what happens when exposed to "rigid obedience", I'd like to sign my Daisy up for boot camp!

It has been my experience that people often claim they want an answer to a problem, but when told exactly what needs done to fix the problem, decide that it's too "mean" or "rigid". What they likely mean is it's too much work and effort for them. It's very similar to a parent of a three or four year old child who claims that the act of smearing peanut butter and jelly all over the walls is an expression of inner frustration - or creativity (take your pick) because that's easier than seeing it for the misbehavior it is and putting a stop to it.

You just keep on keeping on, Nora. pottymouth the torpedos...full steam ahead, and all that!


Tracey - Darlin' Daisy's Mom

bluedog


Rat Royalty
Rat Royalty
06/03/2008 9:41 AM  
Both pups (and children) do better and are more "free" when they have boundaries and direction.

Nora I think you do a great job and you usually help me see issues from a different direction. You are very helpful.

Christine
Mom to Michael & Charlotte
Moose (lab), Paisley (rattie), Clark & Lois (tolerant kitties)
farmergurlyo


Ratastic
Ratastic
06/03/2008 9:47 AM  
well personally i love your advice
it's informative and makes sense

Ashley~
mommy to rattie kairi
michelle


Firehouse Big Dog
Firehouse Big Dog
06/03/2008 9:49 AM  

I love your training advice.  It is very good to have it.  My pups and family have learned alot from reading your posts.  Thank you  so much


michelle, mom to Sydney (JRT), Sonic (Rattie), Buddy(Jack-Rat) and Proud mom to Army son, Jordan

http://www.dogster.com/dogs/893222 Sydney
http://www.dogster.com/dogs/893220 Sonic
http://www.dogster.com/dogs/901405 Buddy



Vickie


Newbie
Newbie
06/03/2008 9:52 AM  

Nora...I don't post very much because I'm at work most of the time, but I always hope you will give me advice, and I feel honored if you do!

alice4512


Firehouse Big Dog
Firehouse Big Dog
06/03/2008 9:57 AM  

Nora,

As a new trainer I look to your advice and have found I apply it in not only my dogs but in dogs I am training too. I think it is tried and tested methods and they work. I love when company comes over and my dogs understand the rules and what I want of them. It is nice to tell your dog to stop jumping all over your guests and they listen. With proper training they do not have to be crated or seperate from you or your guests, they are part of what is going on.  When I am in doubt of how to train something or what to do, this forum and you for training is the very first place I come too. Alice is progressing in her come command, she is flawless in the yard and now I am taking the next steps you suggested and getting her out somewhere different. This commnad alone could some day safe her life should she get out of the yard. Don't stop doing what your doing or being you. You never come off as a know it all, but in my opinion when I come to you you do know it all and are willinn to share what you know, that is priceless.


The great pleasure of a dog is that you may make a fool of yourself with him and not only will he not scold you, but he will make a fool of himself too

~Mom to my good boy Fred and my crazy girl Alice~
Proud applications coordinator for Ratbone Rescue
Cocoabean


Rat Royalty
Rat Royalty
06/03/2008 10:14 AM  
I imagine that for dog trainers the most difficult part of their job is working with the owners.

Nora, I just wanted to tell you how much I appreciated you reminding me of how important it is to make sure that I keep up with crate training Henry even though I'm at home most of the time. I am regularly crating Henry now (he was already crate trained, but I had not been crating him regularly because I now work from home.)


Sara Jo
Mom to Henry
Brandy


Firehouse Big Dog
Firehouse Big Dog
06/03/2008 10:40 AM  
Nora, your advice has been priceless to me. Max is as well trained as he is b/c I followed your advice on everything that I have done with him. Dogs and children alike NEED structure. They NEED to know what is the correct way to behave and what is incorrect.

Luv ya Nora, keep right on posting your training information....can you throw in some kid training too????????

PROUD Home Visit Coordinator for Ratbone's Rescue!!

This is Pirate Country, we bleed Purple and Gold!!!!!

GO ECU!!!
Mitchlav


Newbie
Newbie
06/03/2008 10:51 AM  

Just throwing in my DITTO on the thread.  I don't mind saying THANK YOU NORA for your time, experience and advice.

Don't let one person get your goat.  or your hackles up.  What are hackles anyway?  I alway wondered that.  HEY something shiny!...

(Mitch distractedly wanders away)

daisydeux


Ratastic
Ratastic
06/03/2008 10:58 AM  

I have greatly appreciated all of the advice I have gotten here!!!!  This site has been a godsend for me!!!!

Julie

melo


Ratastic
Ratastic
06/03/2008 11:05 AM  

Nora et all,

I did two things right, I found this board and took  a puppy obediance class.  If not, I could have easily brought up a little monster(not that I am any where near knowing her full potential)--as they say "take what you need and leave the rest"

Mel

 


Nora's mommie --
www.melodybreyer-grell.com
Selling CD's with 50 percent going to Ratbones!! Check it out!
rattytatty


Training Moderator
Training Moderator
06/03/2008 11:09 AM  
Posted By DaisysMom on 06/03/2008 9:34 AM
Nora: I have never found your posts on training issues to at all convey the tone that all dogs must be rigidly obedient. Frankly, I think you do a very good job of trying to help those who come here with issues or problems with their dogs, and have witnessed numerous times you going above and beyond the "call of duty", as it were, to assist those in desperate situations.

I could go on and on about what a wonderful job you do and the service you provide (free of charge, I might add), but I shouldn't have to, and it would be pointless for those who think otherwise anyway, as they will think what they want.

I've seen too many pictures of Bailey being "just a dog" to think he's nothing more than a highly trained robot. And no rigidly obedient dog is going to take as much care as Bailey does with nursing home patients either. So, obviously, if Bailey is an example of what happens when exposed to "rigid obedience", I'd like to sign my Daisy up for boot camp!

It has been my experience that people often claim they want an answer to a problem, but when told exactly what needs done to fix the problem, decide that it's too "mean" or "rigid". What they likely mean is it's too much work and effort for them. It's very similar to a parent of a three or four year old child who claims that the act of smearing peanut butter and jelly all over the walls is an expression of inner frustration - or creativity (take your pick) because that's easier than seeing it for the misbehavior it is and putting a stop to it.

You just keep on keeping on, Nora. pottymouth the torpedos...full steam ahead, and all that!


hahahaha !!!  Said ONLY as Tracey could say it... in her quiet, non-assuming, matter-of-fact tone!  Gosh darn I luv you lady!


~Nora~
Mom to Hoss, Lil'Bit, Buster & Bailey, CGC, OA, OAJ
DaisysMom


Moderator
<b>Moderator</b>
06/03/2008 11:11 AM  
Awww, shucks! Golly gee, Nora. Now I'm blushing.


Luvy you too

Tracey - Darlin' Daisy's Mom

PamWh


Rattitude Problem
Rattitude Problem
06/03/2008 11:25 AM  
Bob is the most trained dog I've ever had and a lot of it has to do with the advice I've gotten here from Nora and others. I know I should train him more and exercise him more and feel guilty that I don't, but not because Nora or anyone else has scolded me.

No one likes to meet a strange dog that jumps on them, sticks their snout in your crotch, drinks out of your glass or steals food from your plate or off the table. No one wants to live next door to a dog that barks constantly. A lot of trouble can be saved for your dog and yourself with a minimum of training.

PamWh
aka Bob's Mom

If your rattie ain't happy, ain't nobody happy!
rebelredneck71


Rat Royalty
Rat Royalty
06/03/2008 11:35 AM  
Nora, some people are just jealous because you probably know a whole heck of alot more than them, and their dogs are just running a muck, I really appreciate your advice. hang inthere and I'm pretty sure you have the support of everyone one in here, or close to it, maybe one or two, but not much, well you get the point.

Life is like a jar of Jalapenos what do you today could burn your butt tomorrow.

A.D.
daddy to 3 skin kiddos, and a dad to 3 fur kiddos
Mitzy's Mom


PAWesome
PAWesome
06/03/2008 11:35 AM  
Posted By PamWh on 06/03/2008 11:25 AM
Bob is the most trained dog I've ever had and a lot of it has to do with the advice I've gotten here from Nora and others. I know I should train him more and exercise him more and feel guilty that I don't, but not because Nora or anyone else has scolded me.

No one likes to meet a strange dog that jumps on them, sticks their snout in your crotch, drinks out of your glass or steals food from your plate or off the table. No one wants to live next door to a dog that barks constantly. A lot of trouble can be saved for your dog and yourself with a minimum of training.


Ok, that part sounds like a bad blind date!


Mary Beth, mom to the Lollipop Kids

Georgia Foster Mom, New Rattitude
Check out our ratties at www.newrattitude.org
swatson6


Attention Starved
Attention Starved
06/03/2008 11:37 AM  
Posted By Mitzy's Mom on 06/03/2008 11:35 AM
Posted By PamWh on 06/03/2008 11:25 AM
Bob is the most trained dog I've ever had and a lot of it has to do with the advice I've gotten here from Nora and others. I know I should train him more and exercise him more and feel guilty that I don't, but not because Nora or anyone else has scolded me.

No one likes to meet a strange dog that jumps on them, sticks their snout in your crotch, drinks out of your glass or steals food from your plate or off the table. No one wants to live next door to a dog that barks constantly. A lot of trouble can be saved for your dog and yourself with a minimum of training.


Ok, that part sounds like a bad blind date!



 OMG it does!!!

Sarah
Mom to Jack, Jeter and foster mom to Teagan



braeli_bryson


Terrier Terror
Terrier Terror
06/03/2008 12:25 PM  
nora- i have not always agreed with your methods (or others iin that case) but that is what makes us humans and different. the ability to make decisions that suit us is important. my dogs have no formal training and yet i have been able to somehow get them to be obedient DOGS... dont get me wrong i have all your stickies and informational guidellines printed at home but never had to use them. Your information is proceless simply coming from the fact that you TRAIN... keep doing what you do on here!!! it helps us all in one way or another. whether this email was 1 person or even the opinions of 20 people, so what... be proud of what you do and please understand, where i can appreciate this post and understand why you wrote it... YOU SHOULD NEVER HAVE TO EXPLAIN YOURSELF TO ANYONE!!!! and the same goes for the email your received.

"No one knows YOU better than YOU!"

gianni_mahopac, ny
bryson: pearl tri color | braeli: chocolate tri color.
Fuji's mom


Rat Royalty
Rat Royalty
06/03/2008 5:41 PM  

Nora, although I do not post often, I truly enjoy reading all of your advice. It has been invaluable for me. Everytime something of concern comes up with Fuji, I can find some valuable piece of information that you have provided for all of us here. Training is very important. In my opinion, many problems that people state they are having with their pets can be resolved with proper training. Thanks for all of your excellent advice on training. I look forward to reading many more of your posts.


Nydia

"Do not think that love, in order to be genuine, has to be extraordinary. What we need is to love without getting tired."
-- Mother Theresa
tauney4


Pack Leader
Pack Leader
06/03/2008 5:45 PM  
well what ever is going on i am out of it!!!!
Maureen


Firehouse Big Dog
Firehouse Big Dog
06/03/2008 5:51 PM  
Nora bless you...I for one appreciate all you do! You give so unselfishly! Thank you!! Please don't stop!!

Maureen Mom to Abby, Barkley and Reggie..and cat Sarah Jane

Scratch a dog and you'll find a permanent job. ~Franklin P. Jones

treble02


Alpha Feist
Alpha Feist
06/03/2008 5:52 PM  
No one likes to meet a strange dog that jumps on them, sticks their snout in your crotch, drinks out of your glass or steals food from your plate or off the table

umm...is it BAD if my dogs do these things?!?!?!
LOL
NORA: LOVE YOUR ADVICE, although I wish I was better about following it...wanna take a vacation to VA???

~ Mary, Trixi and Toa's Mommy,
Ratbone Rescues Database Manager
and Applications Coordinator

Noodles n Me


Terrier Terror
Terrier Terror
06/03/2008 6:04 PM  

Nora,

I was sooo glad when you came back to this forum, and it warmed my heart to see your name put back up as training Modrator!

I learned at a very young age (13) the importance of training a dog, when I recieved a pup to be socialized for a servire dog (another story).  The biggest lesson that has stuck in my mind and is ALWAYS practiced in my home is "Train like you know someone else will have to raise your animal, because you no longer exist." If my babies don't know manners and are ill behaved and I should die, then I know they will die.  No one will want them and very few will take the time to teach them what they should have known.

I might not be what whould be called a very responisale adult, however when it comes to my babies I am and will be responsible for their safty, health, and well being.  I can not be responsible for these things without them being constantly trained.

I am proud to be part if your pack (even if its just in my head), I support your beliefs in training and if I disagree with a method here of there I'll keep it to myself, cause i don't want TO PISS NORA OFF!!!

Keep doing what and how your doing...and just mark those E-mails return to sender!!!!

 


There is no joy greater than being owned by a Rattie!!
cat
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