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If you need help, or have questions, comments or suggestions, please post in the Rat-Terrier.com Info and Help forum.
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Training Moderator:
Nora
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Rat-Terrier.com
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Cocoabean

 Rat Royalty

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| 05/29/2008 9:16 AM |
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I wish I had better news to report about how Henry and his aggression towards guests, but sadly we ended up having to put him in a kennel for the weekend. Now at least I know that his problem is territorial aggression and it isn't just a single person that he doesn't like. Boy, it sure broke my heart over the weekend to kennel him, but he was totally out of control--I've never seen a dog act like this before, so I'm pretty lost about what to do. I ended up ordering 2 books about fear and aggression (The Cautious Canine by Patricia McConnell, which is really just a short guide and Aggression in Dogs: Practical Management, Prevention, and Behavior Modification by Brenda Aloff, which is comprehensive and in depth). It's going to be a tough problem to try and rehabilitate because I'll need other people's help. I'll probably end up seeking professional help.
We did an interesting experiment before I took him to the kennel, though. I had my friend take a walk with me and Henry in our neighborhood. She stayed on the other side of the street so she would be safe. While in the immediate neighborhood, Henry was very anxious about her, occasionally barking at her and lunging towards her, but as soon as we got out of our immediate neighborhood, he forgot all about her being there, and she was able to walk right beside us. He didn't care that she was there at all. When we walked back home, as soon as we entered his "territory," he became anxious and aggressive towards her again. I think that's a sure sign that his problem is territorial aggression, don't you? Also, he's friendly towards people when we're at the park.
Sigh. My sweet, cute, little Henry turns into a monster when people come over. It just breaks my heart...I only want other people to experience Henry as we (our family) does. I will never give up on him, though. At the very worst, he'll have to go to the pet sitter's if we have guests from now on.
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Sara Jo Mom to Henry |
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Mitzy's Mom

 PAWesome

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| 05/29/2008 10:04 AM |
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| Aw, poor guy. Maybe Nora will have some suggestions. Like you said though, at worst he'll just be kenneled when you have guests. |
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Mary Beth, mom to the Lollipop Kids
Georgia Foster Mom, New Rattitude Check out our ratties at www.newrattitude.org |
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bluedog

 Rat Royalty

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| 05/29/2008 10:07 AM |
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| Last week's new episode of dog whisperer was about a pit bull with territorial aggression (based in fear). If you can get a copy, you might find it helpful. I still have it on my DVR, if I can figure out a way to copy it to DVD (maybe someone can give me the steps), i'd send it to you. I can also summarize but it is so helpful to watch. |
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Christine Mom to Michael & Charlotte Moose (lab), Paisley (rattie), Clark & Lois (tolerant kitties) |
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Cocoabean

 Rat Royalty

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| 05/29/2008 8:52 PM |
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Posted By bluedog on 05/29/2008 10:07 AM
Last week's new episode of dog whisperer was about a pit bull with territorial aggression (based in fear). If you can get a copy, you might find it helpful. I still have it on my DVR, if I can figure out a way to copy it to DVD (maybe someone can give me the steps), i'd send it to you. I can also summarize but it is so helpful to watch.
That would be great to see! I don't get the channel here, but I could rent it when it comes out.
Poor little guy. He's been hoarse the last couple of days. Yesterday, when he tried to bark, all that would come out is this hoarse little croak. He must have barked a lot at the kennel. He's much better today. The kennel must be pretty tiring and stressful. Henry slept most of the day yesterday, and he's usually a really high-energy dog. I usually leave him with a lady that boards dogs in her home, but on such short notice on a holiday, she couldn't take him. He loves it with her--she lets him sleep on the bed with her. She adores Henry.
My husband was joking today--he says Henry says "You can be my friend, but you can't come to my house." It was funny because he said it in this little voice like Henry was actually saying those words.
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Sara Jo Mom to Henry |
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Noodles n Me

 Terrier Terror

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| 05/29/2008 9:05 PM |
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| All I have for ya is words of encouragement. We know this breed is the smartest in the world..All ya gotta do is figure out the right way to explain to your little man what ya want. Thats all. ha ha ha ha Thats all hahahah |
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There is no joy greater than being owned by a Rattie!! cat |
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rattytatty

 Training Moderator

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| 05/29/2008 9:35 PM |
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The good news I'm *hearing* from you is your unwillingness to give up and your willingness to work on the behavior. I applaud you for that, because what you are dealing with is going to require that concrete commitment and perserverance. Please know I'm only an email away if I can help you in any way...
It does indeed sound like territorial aggression to me, but of course I am not there and cannot SEE what is triggering the behavior. Something about the sight, smell, actions or sound of the stimulus is triggering this behavior in Henry. Territorial aggression varies in degrees, ranging from growling and barking to lunging, chasing, snapping and biting. It can occur outdoors or at doors or windows... or in the car.... or on walks such as you describe. The sad thing is... and something most people don't realize.... is that if a dog is physically prevented from gaining access to the stimulus (whatever it is), this causes MORE frustration for the dog and the aggression behavior may be heightened. I've seen dogs become so frustrated that they spin in circles, or bite at themselves... and one time I even witnessed a dog turn on the owner who was attempting to correct (prohibit) the behavior. It is normal for most dogs to bark at a visitor who enters your home. The problem comes when the dog doesn't settle down and accept the visitor. The dog may keep barking and get himself so worked up that they may bite. It's kinda like they feed off their own emotions and the more frustrated they become, the more aggression you witness. (make sense?) And oftentimes... the longer a visitor stays in "his" territory, the more worked up the dog becomes. It's a double edged sword, because if the visitor leaves, this reinforces the aggressive behavior as "success" to the dog, and he thinks the visitor leaving was the "reward" so to speak. So in essence... if a visitor comes in and the dog shows aggression ... and the visitor leaves... then that reinforces the bad behavior. So having the visitor leave is NOT the answer.
The books you have gotten are excellent resources. The Cautious Canine was required reading for the canine behavior course I took... although a short & sweet book... it's full of great information.
Territorial aggression can be prevented if you have a pup and begin training at an early age. But if that's not the case with Henry (I'm sorry... I can't remember his circumstances)... then you may indeed need to seek professional help. I wish I were closer... I'd be happy to help you. There are things that can be done... several things you'll need another person to help with.
First and foremost, I would suggest a prong collar (not a choke collar), but PLEASE get someone who has worked with them before to show you the proper way to use one. You can get them at petsmart. They are not expensive and are VERY effective IF used properly. It would be well worth the money to get a trainer to spend a few sessions with you (one-on-one with Henry) to show you how to use it and what can be done with it as it pertains specifically to Henry.
Sara Jo... hang in there. The behavior IS correctable... but it can't be done overnight, and I think you know this. *hugs* |
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~Nora~ Mom to Hoss, Lil'Bit, Buster & Bailey, CGC, OA, OAJ |
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bluedog

 Rat Royalty

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| 05/30/2008 1:03 AM |
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I am not sure if this helps but this info was on his site. I will watch the show again tomorrow and see if I can give you an overview with specifics. the dog was pretty extreme on the show (he wore a muzzle) and would lunge and stalk visitors, he was fine with family members and other dogs that lived in the home, but he would lunge at the fence and at other dogs and people while on walks. At the end of the show, Cesar had friends walk into the house unannounced and they were able to pet the dog. It was to show what was possible, that is not to say that it would not take constant work. He did seem to follow what is stated below and I will see if I can get more specifics tomorow. From dog whisperer website: Contrary to popular belief, it's not always necessary to use physical corrections with a territorial dog in order for him to see you as the pack leader. And, although dogs are naturally prone to protect their space, you will see that an aggressively territorial dog like Butch does not respect his pack leader. However, you can win a dog's respect by "outlasting" him psychologically. In other words, it's often just a contest of wills. A dog sees things in terms of cause and effect, so when you move away from a place or object he is guarding, the more it reinforces his belief that he "owns" it. By not backing away from the situation, you can actually begin to recondition him to realize that he doesn't have that power. Dogs are familiar with this strategy. For example, cattle dogs don't physically touch cattle when they're herding, but they make the animals think they're going to. One thing to always keep in mind is that this doesn't happen overnight. Like every aspect of training, you must have patience! _____ Dogs become aggressive out of frustration and dominance. The frustration comes from a lack of exercise, and the dominance comes from a lack of calm-assertive leadership. When dealing with red zone dogs, I start by working with the owners, explaining how to establish themselves as pack leaders and to understand the animal in their dog. This is a crucial part of rehabilitating your dog: changing your behavior. If you revert to your old ways, so will your dog. For many of these dogs, it is a lack of adequate exercise that is the root of the problem. Physical activity burns the dog’s excess energy and helps maintain his healthy state of mind. This is important because, in order to talk to the mind, you need to remove the energy from the body. If you live with an aggressive dog, I urge you to find a professional dog trainer to work with you and your dog. Most cases can be rehabilitated with time and dedication, and we owe it to our dogs to try. |
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Christine Mom to Michael & Charlotte Moose (lab), Paisley (rattie), Clark & Lois (tolerant kitties) |
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dtls224

 Terrier Terror

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| 05/30/2008 2:42 AM |
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Sara jo, Thank you for posting this thread. I have the same problem with Rainy. She is sweet and lovable with the family but as soon as some one comes over that she does not know, has not seen every few days, she goes balistic. She barks non stop and some times lunges at them. she did this to my nephews daughter who is only 4 years old and i am at my wits end because I am afraid she is going to bite a small child. On Mem day my sons girl friend cam over and Rainy was again barking and angry but we had the girl offer Rainy a treat and with in minutes she was a different dog.......she was loving and gentle with the girl but as soon as they stepped outside she was devil dog again...... I get people here who yell at her and one has even tried to kick her......they have said get a barking collar or get rid of her.......I cannot do that but I need to do something.....She has a big yard to play in and runs every day with one of us.......The problems with training is 1. My husband works nights so most of his days he is sleeping so he cant train every day.......2. I am disabled and I cannot be outside with her every time she is out there and 3. My kids are awful at training her....I just do not know what to do any more......She is my Jeckell and Hyde dog and I just want her to be the dog I know she can be........the one who puts her nose on mine and climbs between me and hubby in the morning......I want her to be calm around strangers and family.....I ache inside not knowing what to do........Please help.........any one!!! |
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tina224...live...laugh...love...and bark at the moon
He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion." ~Unknown |
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SYLVIA

Ratterific

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| 05/30/2008 6:17 AM |
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I AM GLAD FOR THE NEW INFO. TOBEY I SSTILL HAVING THE SAME PROBLEM WITH PEOPLE. I TOOK HIM TO PETSMART.
THE VET ASSIST LOVED HIM, PETTED HIM AND EVEN PUT THE MUZZEL ON HIM. THEN HE HE CHANGES WHEN WE WENT OUT IN THE STORE. ONE LADY EVEN PETTED HIM BEFORE I TOLD HER NOT TO TRY TO PET. THE LADY WITH HER HE TRIED TO JUMP AT.
I AM WORKING NOW , SO MAYBE I CAN SOON AFFORD TO GET SOME PROFESSIONAL HELP. HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO FIND A PROFESSIONAL TRAINER LESS THAN 500.00 A CLIP. I JUST CANT AFFORD THIS. I LOVE MY TOBEY AND IT TAKES SO MUCH WORK TO HAVE A DOG LIKE THIS. ANY HELP WILL BE APPRECIATED.
TO MAKE IT WORSE OUR GRANDSON MOVED IN WITH US AND WITH HIS MINI PINSHER THAT IS 6 MO OLD. I AM HAVING MORE PROBLEMS WITH TOBEY TRYING TO KILL HIM. HE IS JEALOUS OF MY GRANDSON. HE WANTS ALL THE ATTENTION.
I AM GETTY MISS MOLLY SPAYED ON WED. THEN I AM GOING TO WORK ON GETTTING THIS LITTLE PAIN( DEXTER) neutered.he is constantly marking. it is getting unbearable now.
HE GETS PLENTY OF LOVE AND ATTENTION BY ALL. AT LEAST I FEEL HE DOES. I KNOW HE GETS MINE. PLEAS ANY HELP. I LOVE TOBY SO MUCH. I WANT HIM TO BE NICE. HE IS SO SMART. JUST HAS A MEAN STREAK IN HIM.
PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Cocoabean

 Rat Royalty

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| 05/30/2008 8:56 PM |
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Thank you everyone for your thoughtful responses.
Nora, I especially want to thank you for your encouraging words and support. Just to fill you in on Henry's background, I adopted him from a rescue group about a year and a half ago; he was estimated to be 4-7 years old. Henry had just undergone the removal of his right eye, which was replaced with a prosthesis. No doubt some of his problems are related to the adjustment to his visual impairment. His foster family said that Henry acted like he had never been inside a house. They had to teach him to climb stairs.
It is incredible how far Henry has come since I adopted him. When on the leash, he was frightened and aggressive towards people, other dogs, cars, bikes, etc. Now he is like any other trained dog on a leash. He has always been very well behaved off leash in the dog park; no problems there (he has a great recall, too). I work with Henry every day, and it has been a long and extremely rewarding journey to see him evolve.
Fortunately, I am very into physical exercise, so our dogs reap the rewards of long hikes and walks. Henry is so athletic that I regularly (2-3 times a week) take him to the park and skate 5 to 7 miles while he runs along with me. We do the same thing with a bike, too. I can't imagine how wild he would be without a lot of exercise!
One of the books that I ordered just arrived today (the Aloff book). From just the little bit that I glanced at it, I can already tell that there are some things I've done (neglected to do) to promote this behavior. The biggest challenge for me is that I don't have a lot of visitors (once or twice a year). That makes it so hard to actually work on the problem. My closest friend has never had a dog. That's why I really think I need professional help. I need visitors!
Henry is the most awesome dog that I've ever had. He is also the most challenging. He is smart and responsive. I know he can be rehabilitated with this problem because I've seen him do a complete turnaround with his leash aggression. It took a lot, I mean a lot, of practice, though. It has taken nearly a year and a half for him to become a normally leash-trained dog. But he's there, and it is SO COOL when people say what a great dog he is. Happened today, as a matter of fact.
Wow, if you've read this far, thank you! I really appreciate the support and the advice. Thank you Christine for the post with the information from Cesar's website. To those of you who share my problem, I wish you the best of luck. It's a challenging problem to deal with, and I feel your pain. Jekyll and Hyde is an excellent analogy, isn't it?
I will keep you all posted on Henry's progress or lack thereof. I am hopeful, though.
One more thing--Nora, I do use a prong collar with Henry. I actually watched a video on how to properly use one when we got one for our other dog. I have had great success with the prong collar. When I first got Henry, I couldn't use a head halter because of the close proximity of the strap to his newly inserted eye, and the prong was a great alternative. It works extremely well for Henry. |
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Sara Jo Mom to Henry |
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tauney4

 Pack Leader

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| 05/30/2008 9:12 PM |
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| YAY THAT HE IS DOING A TURN AROUND.i dont know the whole story but i am glad he is becoming a better dog!!!!! |
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ladyfern

 Bratty Ratty

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| 05/30/2008 10:02 PM |
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Shiloh has taken three years of training and we still aren't exactly there yet. Her aggression is towards specific people and there doesn't seem to be alot of rhyme or reason to it but she was a rescue and I'm quite certain that she has issues that she can't tell me about. She's terrified if you offer her water, yet drinks out of a bowl inside and the ponds (filtered) outside, she will swim in the creek but not the lake, will get in the bath if I tell her to but looks at me like I'm the meanest person on the planet. I've even been training her when outside, if I'm about to turn the hose on I tell her and she'll now stay near me (quivering as if I'm going to douse her with it and I never have...) They give lots of clues, she doesn't like overly tall people, she doesn't trust men in hats... she doesn't care for small children it really makes me wonder what stories we'd hear if they could tell us. Hang in there Sara Jo and thanks for sharing with us. This is the first time I've heard about Henry's rescue, I had no clue he had lost an eye. He's sure a beauty. I wish you both the best  |
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ladyfern & shiloh
If you want the best seat in the house ... move the dog!
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bluedog

 Rat Royalty

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| 05/31/2008 2:21 AM |
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One other thing I would add - you are doing great with him. Live in the now!! because he did poorly over the weekend does not mean he will continue to do so. Be aware of the scenario you paint in your head because it affects your body language and communication with him - if you are concerned that he will act a certain way, he probably will. It sounds like you are educating yourself and you will find techniques that work. PS - the second half of the previous post was also from dog whisperer, not me... i thought that was generally good information for anyone who had the same problem but didn't know where to start. It sounds like you have exercise figured out. |
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Christine Mom to Michael & Charlotte Moose (lab), Paisley (rattie), Clark & Lois (tolerant kitties) |
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Cocoabean

 Rat Royalty

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| 05/31/2008 7:06 PM |
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Thank you! You guys are awesome! Christine, I totally appreciated your post, and I totally got that the 2nd half was the Dog Whisperer. Although I am not sure if all of Cesar's methods are appropriate for Henry, I think his ideas about exercise, discipline, and affection are right on. Henry's problem is new, by the way. When we lived in Athens, I had people in and out a lot more than I do now, and there wasn't aggression then, nor was there aggression towards my in-laws and their 3 kids, who visited us here in Acworth when Henry and I first moved back here. It has since developed. When I interviewed with Henry's foster family, we all agreed that Henry needs strong boundaries and firm, benevolent leadership. I have learned so much over this past year and a half about dog behavior and training! Henry is a perfect match for me and my personality. I wouldn't trade him for the world! To me, he's an awesome dog. He's athletic, fun-loving, playful, smart, and affectionate. He's actually that once in a lifetime dog, a forever dog, as I believe Pat McConnell (The Other End of the Leash) says. I just have to try and resolve this problem and nip it in the bud. The Aloff book is awesome so far; I've already learned quite a bit about aggression in dogs in general. I had a friend in Athens who had 2 dachsunds, which she told me are notoriously difficult to train. Henry and I would go and visit them at their house and just have a great time. Anyway, my friend and I would joke about how anyone can train a Golden Retriever, but give them a dachsund or terrier and see what happens! It made us feel better, anyway... |
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Sara Jo Mom to Henry |
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Cocoabean

 Rat Royalty

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| 05/31/2008 7:18 PM |
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One more thing...I was just thinking today that I would rather have this type of problem than one where the dog is so frightened he/she hides from people. I actually think I'd have a harder time dealing with a dog that had been abused and was really frightened of everything. I saw a few of those at the shelter where I used to volunteer; they seem like tough cases. Writing here has been downright therapeutic. I can't tell you how much all of your thoughts, comments, and support have helped. Again, thank you! |
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Sara Jo Mom to Henry |
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bluedog

 Rat Royalty

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| 05/31/2008 8:20 PM |
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Hey, you are exactly right. Cesar always says that removing aggression from a dog is much easier that rehabilitating a frightened or low self esteem dog. I think that you will find what works - I think it is really smart to gather info and apply and see what works for you. Cesar's methods work GREAT with my lab, Paisley is a completely different challenge - but that is what makes it interesting (to me). Training "soft" dogs is so easy! I had an aussie and I feel like I can have any dog after that. "we all agreed that Henry needs strong boundaries and firm, benevolent leadership" - you are right on about this - all dogs need this!! |
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Christine Mom to Michael & Charlotte Moose (lab), Paisley (rattie), Clark & Lois (tolerant kitties) |
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Cocoabean

 Rat Royalty

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| 06/01/2008 11:52 AM |
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That's interesting, Christine. I am kind of grateful in a weird sort of way for these problems of Henry's. It has been really rewarding to work with him and see him evolve. I'm also very grateful that Henry LOVES treats and food. He is highly motivated by treats and toys. My bird dog is not, and it's really difficult to motivate her. The reason I think some of Cesar's methods are not appropriate for Henry is that I don't think his aggression is related to dominance issues. I think Henry has confidence issues stemming from when he lost his eye and became visually impaired coupled with never having been trained on a leash (referring to his prior leash aggression). I'm beginning to think that his territorial aggression is something he learned and that is positively reinforced when he barks at the mail lady, UPS person, or garbage truck. He barks, they go away, problem solved--in his mind. |
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Sara Jo Mom to Henry |
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bluedog

 Rat Royalty

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| 06/02/2008 1:15 AM |
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I think what Cesar has done for me is to think about what fulfills my dog (as a dog) vs. what fulfills me and then act on it. If you think about your dog as a dog and what they need at that level (which it is very apparent that you do), then the method of training will flow from that. Paisley (rattie) is motivated by treats also. I've noticed she is pretty barky (seems to come naturally with the breed) and I can see how easy it would be to develop aggression, she charges the dogs on the other side of the fence and daily I go out there and make sure that redirect them from the fence and claim it. Do you think Henry knows I used to be this way, now I am this way? From my understanding, they don't really have the capacity to feel sorry for themselves or each other, it seems to be more of a conditioned response. Like when he acts one way closer to your house (or in your house) and another as he gets further out because he hasn't been conditioned to react any certain way in unfamiliar territory. I wonder how he would do with a different handler in the territory nearer to your house. You could possibly be expecting him to behave a certain way and feeding that to him (this i referring to the walking part). Do you feel sorry for him? It makes me think of my neighbor's standard poodle. I walk her on occasion and my neighbor (who is a very tense reactive type person, but nice) told me that Beth (the dog) was a skittish basket case and weaved to and fro and was hard to walk. I took her with Moose, she protested for about 1/2 block and then walked like a little floating cloud the rest of the way. She was wonderful! I wonder if it is because I didn't know her and I had no expectations of how she might be or what she might do that she just "was" at that time. |
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Christine Mom to Michael & Charlotte Moose (lab), Paisley (rattie), Clark & Lois (tolerant kitties) |
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Cocoabean

 Rat Royalty

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| 06/02/2008 12:10 PM |
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No, I don't think Henry thinks that way (I used to be that way, now I'm this way). I truly think he's learned this aggression and has gotten inadvertent positive reinforcement. Now, when the intruder doesn't go away but comes in instead, he loses control, and I mean he totally loses control. I definitely think started as a conditioned response. I have to do the same sort of thing with Henry at the neighbor's fence. My neighbors have a Yorkie that's very reactive at the fence. Henry is absolutely not allowed to bark and run at the fence with this Yorkie. He's gotten to where I can go out on the porch and redirect him by saying his name now. I used to have to actually go to the fence and chase him away. Now he'll go over--but not too close--and kind of stand there while Dennis (the Yorkie) barks his little head off. Henry will just look at him like he's crazy. Of course, I don't let that continue for long, but it is kind of nice to see Henry not react. You can probably appreciate this being in a multi-dog household. When my friend was here and before I took Henry to the kennel, we (our three dogs, my husband, me, and my girlfriend) all went outside on our porch to sit and visit. I had Henry leashed. He would calm down and lose control intermittently and need to be calmed, etc. Anyway, my lab mix, Heidi, very calmly walked over to my friend and sat by her and then laid down at her feet. It was almost as if she were trying to "teach" Henry. It was an interesting thing to observe. I think Heidi was quite disturbed by Henry's aggression toward our guest. She would follow my friend around while Henry was out of his crate (even though I kept Henry leashed the whole time). |
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Sara Jo Mom to Henry |
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Daxter

 Ratastic

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| 06/02/2008 4:16 PM |
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Sara Jo, I just wants to say congrats to you for your persistence and patience to teach Henry to become a better dog and overcome his leash and aggression problem. My dog Daxter is aggresive too and even bite people and I have to start working on him, train and correcting his bad behaviour. I read Cesar book and learn a lot from him about dogs, I never see his show though, I am thinking to get a DVD so I can watch it. Besides reading book what else do you use as a training aid? Have you ever ask for help from animal trainer? I have a good advice from people at rt.com here and their support including yours which I really appreciated! |
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Monica & Daxter |
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Cocoabean

 Rat Royalty

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| 06/02/2008 8:35 PM |
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Posted By Daxter on 06/02/2008 4:16 PM
Sara Jo, I just wants to say congrats to you for your persistence and patience to teach Henry to become a better dog and overcome his leash and aggression problem. My dog Daxter is aggresive too and even bite people and I have to start working on him, train and correcting his bad behaviour. I read Cesar book and learn a lot from him about dogs, I never see his show though, I am thinking to get a DVD so I can watch it. Besides reading book what else do you use as a training aid? Have you ever ask for help from animal trainer? I have a good advice from people at rt.com here and their support including yours which I really appreciated!
Monica, Daxter sure is a handsome dog! Thanks for the congrats, too.
I have not yet taken Henry to any training classes, although I did inquire about them with my vet's office. They gave me a recommendation, and I am planning on enrolling Henry at some point in the near future, probably this fall when it's not so hot because they hold a lot of the class outside.
With Henry's leash aggression, I tried several different training aids, including a head collar. He did great with the head collar as far as adapting to it, but with the aggression issue it was a disaster--mainly because of Henry's prosthetic eye and the close proximity of the strap to his eyes. Henry would flip out and yank his head all around like a maniac. I just couldn't get good control of him. I finally resorted to a prong collar, and this has worked very well for Henry. I didn't resort to this lightly though, and I did already have experience and knowledge with using the prong collar with another dog. Prongs can be very dangerous if not used properly.
The thing that finally did it with the leash aggression is redircting Henry's attention from "scary thing" to me. Once I got the timing right with this, and I used treats and Henry's name and the command "look," which I taught him beforehand, he started to gain more confidence and become less reactive. It took a long time. I've been working on this since I got him a year and a half ago, but he's pretty solid now as long as he has his prong collar on. I don't even have to give it the slightest tug anymore to redirect him, but just having the prong on makes a difference. It is a very unconventional approach to use a prong with positive reinforcement, but I don't use the prong for corrections, just for control.
Another thing I did was "nothing in life is free" or NILIF. I still do it to a degree and have actually stepped it up again recently. Basically, Henry has to work for everything. For his dinner he has to sit for a few moments. To go outside, he has to sit or do a down, etc. This helped a lot with both Henry's self control and establishing my relevance to him as his leader.
The only other thing I can add is that I never go for a walk with Henry without treats to use as rewards. Also, I have never shied away from taking him to places to expose him to a lot of people and dogs on leashes. It was embarrassing at first, to say the least, to have this crazy dog reacting to other dogs, but it helped him in the long run to gain confidence in himself. I would hike with him, and if another person approached with a dog, I would lead Henry off the trail so no contact could be made and then make him sit while holding a treat up. If he sat nicely he got the treat. Now Henry pretty much behaves like a normal dog on the leash unless someone else's dog is acting all crazy and lunging at us. Even then, Henry's about 50/50, which is awesome to me.
I wish you the best of luck with Daxter. Don't give up, and keep in mind that you will make mistakes (I sure did). If he did already bite someone, it might be a great idea to seek out the help of a qualified trainer. I will probably end up doing that myself with Henry's territorial aggression.
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Sara Jo Mom to Henry |
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bluedog

 Rat Royalty

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| 06/02/2008 11:41 PM |
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I use a prong collar on both dogs. I find them more humane than chokes (for a pulling dog) when they are used correctly. Just the act of wearing one, they are different dogs and I rarely have to make corrections (as opposed to wheezing, choking and pulling on a choke chain). I also learned to use one in a class and was taught by a professional. I agree, we all make mistakes - I try after each encounter (good or bad) to assess myself and figure out what I did right or how I could have handled it differently - sort of a mental role play so I am ready the next time... |
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Christine Mom to Michael & Charlotte Moose (lab), Paisley (rattie), Clark & Lois (tolerant kitties) |
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rattytatty

 Training Moderator

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| 06/03/2008 7:59 AM |
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| I absolutely do NOT like choke collars, and I agree with Christine about prong collars being much more humane when used correctly. Let's face it -- if the goal is to "hurt" a dog, it can be done easily with a lightweight nylon collar. The goal of course should always be the well-being of the dog. I can't see any dog being better off by choking and pulling with a choke collar. In fact... I think they are dangerous. |
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~Nora~ Mom to Hoss, Lil'Bit, Buster & Bailey, CGC, OA, OAJ |
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Cocoabean

 Rat Royalty

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| 06/03/2008 9:37 AM |
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I don't like choke collars either and have not used the choke collar with any of my dogs. I use a prong collar with both Henry and Heidi and feel like it is much more humane than the choke collar, or for Henry even a regular collar. With the prong, Henry doesn't get choked at all.
I have only had one unfortunate incident with the prong on Henry that was totally because I wasn't paying attention. I had taken Henry to a park where there were a lot of Canada geese, and Henry charged one that I didn't notice had started to waddle up in our direction. The prong did break the skin on Henry's neck, and I felt soooo bad. He never charged a Canada goose again after that.
When I was volunteering at the shelter and helping out with dog walking and teaching basic obedience, we had to use choke collars. I hated it. We never popped the leash or anything like that, and the methods were based on positive reinforcement, but I hated hearing the dogs gasping for air if they pulled. I kept wondering how damaging these collars were to the dog's tracheas. |
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Sara Jo Mom to Henry |
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Daxter

 Ratastic

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| 06/03/2008 11:22 AM |
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I try using a muzzle on Daxter and it work well, he is less agressive and didn't bark to people anymore when we went for a walk, except when there is people biking next to us. Yesterday, I bought a gentle leader also and try it on him, it works pretty well too, actually it makes much more easier to control him although he take off the part that is goes on his nose this morning, so I adjust it to fit better on him. I also call his name when we walk and there is people coming toward us and he come to me and look at me. I actually uisng your trick when I read your post about how you deal with Henry. I think he gets the message with the muzzle or gentle leader on that he is not supposed to be aggresive to people. I contact the trainer in my area, but have not get a chance to talk to them yet, hopefully they will help with training Daxter to be better. |
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Monica & Daxter |
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