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Subject: Puppy had dandruff
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Cottage_Rose



05/18/2008 8:13 PM  

Our 3 month old "Decker" Rat Terrier Shelby has dandruff. Her coat is shiny and silky but she has tiny white flakes over her back area. Maybe it just show up better due to the black color there.
We feed her Purina ONE Puppy Formula which is:  25% protein and 16% fat.
First 4 ingredients. are: lamb, corn gluten meal, oat meal and fish meal.
I've used premium brand dog foods (Eukanuba etc.) but when comparing the ings. and protein/fat content they are the same.
Is there a better dog food I could give her or should I just add some oil to her kibble?


Cottage Rose Birds n' Blossoms
http://www.freewebs.com/cottage_rose_birdsnblossoms/
Yukon Cornelius


Terrier Terror
Terrier Terror
05/18/2008 8:27 PM  

Hi and welcome!  If you check out the health/diet forum you will find several threads concerning dog foods.  I would switch to a grain free and by-product free food.  I feed my rattie Tast of the Wild Wetlands Formula.  Your rattie could have a grain allergy.  There are many excellent foods available, but not at the grocery store.  Grocery store pet food is low quality food.  You can also check out www.dogfoodproject.com  for more information. 

Yukon


We'll have to outwit the fiend with our superior intelligence.

http://lordmarley08.googlepages.com/home
Emg


Terrier Terror
Terrier Terror
05/19/2008 3:37 PM  

Hi and welcome!

Ingredients in Purina puppy Chow..

I am hoping this is the one you use...'brewers rice' was not one of the first ingredients you typed up, but check and see if any of this stuff is in there if it isn't the same type..

 

Lamb, brewers rice, corn gluten meal, oat meal, fish meal (source of DHA), whole grain corn, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), poultry by-product meal, non-fat yogurt, animal digest, calcium phosphate, potassium chloride, caramel color, calcium carbonate, salt, choline chloride, L-Lysine monohydrochloride, zinc sulfate, Vitamin E supplement, ferrous sulfate, manganese sulfate, niacin, Vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, copper sulfate, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin B-12 supplement, garlic oil, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, Vitamin D-3 supplement, calcium iodate, biotin, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), sodium selenite.

 

The second ingredient here is Corn gluten meal. Ingredients are listed from heavest to lightest...this means that the first ingredients make up most of the dog food. Corn Gluten Meal is basically what is left after most of the nutrients are removed. Corn in general is concidered a low quality grain and is thought to be the source of many food allergies.

Corn then appears a second time as whole grain corn.

Brewers rice is a processed rice product that is missing many of the nutrients contained in whole ground rice and brown rice.

Poultry by-product meal is from both an undetermined source and from low quality sources of protein. It could be any kind of bird, and poultry by-product meal is defined by the AAFCO as, “a meal consisting of the ground, rendered, clean parts of the carcass of slaughtered poultry, such as necks, feet, undeveloped eggs and intestines, exclusive of feathers, except in such amounts as might occur unavoidable in good processing practice.”

Fish meal is from an undetermined fish source.

Caramel Coloring isn't a natural coloring, and could be harmful.

Both Animal digest and animal fat are from undetermined sources, and can be ANY animal. This includes roadkill, dead zoo animals, 4D animals (dead, diseased, dying, disabled) and even euthanized cats and dogs. In addition, the chemical used to put cats and dogs to sleep makes it through the rendering processes and into the food, and the collars, tags, and plastic bags on the animals are not taken off.

Menadoine is a hazardous, synthetic version of vitamin K!! It is believed to cause:

  • causes cytotoxicity in liver cells
  • causes formation of radicals from enzymes of leucocytes, with the consequence of cytotoxic reactions
  • considerably weakens the immune system
  • possible mutagenic effects
  • damages the natural vitamin K cycle
  • has no effect on coumarin derivatives, which are often present in commercial food due to mold contamination (toxic when ingested)
  • causes hemolytic anemia and hyperbilirubinemia, not just linked to large doses
  • disturbs the level of calcium ions (Ca2+) in the body, which is an important factor fibrinolysis
  • is directly toxic in high doses (vomiting, albuminuria), unlike natural vitamin K
  • builds up in tissue and has been detected in eggs, meat and milk of animals supplemented with menadione derivatives
  • causes irritation of skin and mucous membranes
  • causes allergic reactions and eczema

 

Go here to read more about Menadoine:

http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=menadione

 

Your dog may have dandruff because Purina is a low quality dog food that is not giving her the nutrients she needs. This type has a lot of grains and hardly any meat. "Lamb" is the first ingredients, however, anything in the ingredients just labeled as "Chicken" "Lamb" "Beef" ect, includes it's water content. Before it is cooked and processed, raw meat is made of about 70-80% moisture. After is is rendered, only 20% of the meat is left, so "lamb" should really be placed further down the ingredients list. The manufacturer gest away with putting it first because the ingredients are weighed before they are processed.

 Also, most dog foods (even the better ones) don't have enough omega 3 and 6s, a lack of which can cause joint and skin issues. Try adding some fish oils to her diet and see if it helps.

 It also could be a grain allergy...ratties seem to be especially suseptable to grain allergies.

 I feed Canidae, and some other foods that many use on here include Innova/EVO, Taste of the Wild, and Natural Balance. All are very good dog brands.

 If you want to read up a little on nutrition and what all those fancy food terms mean, check out this site:

www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php

 ...and one more thing. It is important to soak the kibble in water because of the lack of moisture in dry dog foods. Dogs do not know instictually how much moisture they need, and most dog foods only contain about 10% moisture.


Sara, Sam's mommy
gwacie


Rat-A-Tat-Tat
Rat-A-Tat-Tat
05/19/2008 3:57 PM  
Welcome! As you have read, there are many better food options. You can also supplement her current diet with some essential fatty acids (like fish oil) as you transition her to a better food. I hope her coat improves soon!

gwacie (Bethany)
My Doggies: http://www.myadams.net/dogs/
Rescue: http://www.newrattitude.org
bluedog


Rat Royalty
Rat Royalty
05/19/2008 5:29 PM  

We just overcame this. Moose (my lab) had bad dandruff but a great shiny coat - everyone always commented on how nice his coat was. He was on Beneful, another grocery store brand. With some help from the people here and my local (really knowledgeable) pet store, we've switched to Wellness Core grain free kibble and now are at half raw food / half Wellness Core Original kibble. Both dogs are thriving and Moose's dandruff is gone, coat is even shinier, energy is great, stools are firm. WE SWITCHED LESS THAN 3 WEEKS AGO ! It makes a difference.


Christine
Mom to Michael & Charlotte
Moose (lab), Paisley (rattie), Clark & Lois (tolerant kitties)
Cottage_Rose



05/19/2008 10:25 PM  
Emg...WOW! Thanks much for all those details! The "animal digest" thing is appalling!!!
I have been reading a lot since yesterday and went out and bought some EVO today just because its was grain free....but I am wondering about the high protein. Does a puppy or non-working dog really need so much protein and fat? I know puppies need higher protien and fat foods but let face it most domestic dogs are a far cry from their wolf ancestors.

Cottage Rose Birds n' Blossoms
http://www.freewebs.com/cottage_rose_birdsnblossoms/
bluedog


Rat Royalty
Rat Royalty
05/19/2008 10:51 PM  
Is there a puppy formula of EVO? EVO is a good kibble (I have my cats on it), my dogs had a hard time with really loose stools even after doing a slow switch over 10 days but I am sure it did contribute to improving Moose's coat. We swapped out with Wellness Core Original which has a lower protein and fat percentage, still grain free and their stools firmed up. I would be sure to be on a puppy formula.

Christine
Mom to Michael & Charlotte
Moose (lab), Paisley (rattie), Clark & Lois (tolerant kitties)
Emg


Terrier Terror
Terrier Terror
05/20/2008 4:36 PM  
It all depends on the individual dog. Some dogs can't tolerate foods that are very rich in protein, like EVO, for certain reasons. However, protein is very important in a regular dog's diet, and serves as building blocks for body tissues, organs, enzymes, hormones, antibodies and so on - roughly half of the dry body mass of a dog consists of protein. It also depends on the quality of meat...EVO uses "high" quality protein sources, like specifically named meals, oils, and "plain" meats. Many other brands use "low" quality protein sources that are hard to digest and poorly absorbed, such as digests and by-products.
Another thing to be concerned about is that puppies fed on rich diets grow faster...if you feed them too much. You won't have to really worry about that, though, if you feed the right amount...you won't have to feed as much EVO as you had to with Purina.
EVO should be okay...try mixing in a little and see if you notice anything like loose stools. If you do, maybe try a not-so-rich in protein food.

Sara, Sam's mommy
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