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Subject: Breeding Blue Rat Terriers
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Morgan


Moderator
<b>Moderator</b>
02/18/2008 5:23 PM  

 If you are thinking about breeding your blue rattie (especially with another blue rattie) this is a great article that you may want to read.
(Thanks to Jolene for doing this reseach for our website.)

 

Colour Mutant Alopecia (Blue or Fawn Doberman Syndrome, Fawn Irish Setter Syndrome, Blue Dog Disease)

What is colour dilution alopecia?


This condition develops in some, but not all dogs that have been bred for unusual coat colour, especially "fawn" (a dilution of a normally red or brown coat) or "blue" ( a dilution of the normal black and tan coat colour). Alopecia means hairlessness - affected dogs have a poor, patchy haircoat progressing to widespread permanent hair loss. At the cellular level, there are abnormalities of the hair follicles and uneven clumping of pigment (melanin) granules in the hair shafts in affected areas

How is colour dilution alopecia inherited?


The inheritance is unclear. The condition is thought to be due to the interaction of different factors at the gene position for colour.

What breeds are affected by colour dilution alopecia?


This condition is seen most commonly in Doberman pinschers with unusual coat colours (as many as 90% of blue Dobermans and 75% of fawns). The condition also occurs but is less common in other breeds bred for unusual coat colours: Bernese mountain dog, chihuahua (blue), chow chow (blue), dachshund (blue), Great Dane (blue), Irish setter (fawn), miniature pinscher (blue), Rat Terriers (blue, blue fawn) saluki, schipperke (blue), Shetland sheepdog (blue), standard poodle (blue), whippet (blue), Yorkshire terrier (grey-blue).

For many breeds and many disorders, the studies to determine the mode of inheritance or the frequency in the breed have not been carried out, or are inconclusive. We have listed breeds for which there is a consensus among those investigating in this field and among veterinary practitioners, that the condition is significant in this breed.

What does colour dilution alopecia mean to your dog & you?

Dogs with this condition are born with a normal haircoat. Those with lighter blue or fawn hair coats usually start to show changes by 6 months while in dogs with darker steel blue coats, the changes may not be evident until 2 or 3 years of age. Your dog will experience hair loss and dry skin. Sometimes the earliest sign is a recurring bacterial infection (folliculitis), generally on the back, where you will see small bumps which are infected hair follicles. This clears up temporarily with antibiotics, but the affected area is very slow to regrow hair, or remains hairless.

Hair loss is usually first apparent on the back and by 2 or 3 years has spread over all the light coloured areas of the body. The exposed skin is often scaly and is susceptible to sunburn or extreme cold. Your dog's health is not otherwise affected by this condition.

How is colour dilution alopecia diagnosed?


Your veterinarian may suspect this disorder if your dog has typical haircoat changes and is an unusual colour for the breed. The diagnosis is confirmed through microscopic examination of plucked hairs or a skin biopsy. The latter is a simple procedure, done with local anesthetic, in which your veterinarian removes a small sample of your dog's skin for examination by a veterinary pathologist. The biopsy will show changes characteristic of this condition.

For the veterinarian: Careful microscopic examination of plucked hairs will show large clumps of melanin distributed unevenly along the hair shaft.

In young dogs, demodicosis or other inherited hair defects should be considered while in dogs with a later onset (2 to 3 years of age), endocrine disorders (particularly hypothyroidism) should be ruled out.

How is colour dilution alopecia treated?


Your dog can lead a normal healthy life with periodic symptomatic treatment as needed - moisturizing rinses for dry scaly skin or antibiotics for bacterial infections.

Since early hair loss occurs due to breakage, you may be able to slow the rate of loss by avoiding harsh shampoos and vigorous grooming.

For the veterinarian: There have been some early reports of hair regrowth using etretinate treatment . (See resource below.)

Breeding advice

Affected dogs, their parents and siblings should not be used for breeding. The condition can be entirely avoided by the use of non-colour-diluted dogs in breeding programmes.

FOR MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THIS DISORDER, PLEASE SEE YOUR VETERINARIAN.

Resources

Scott, D.W., Miller, W.H., Griffin, C.E. 1995. Muller and Kirk's Small Animal Dermatology. p. 777. W.B. Saunders Co., Toronto.

Power, H.T., Ihrke, P.J. 1995. The use of synthetic retinoids in veterinary medicine. In S.J. Ettinger and E.C. Feldman (eds.) Textbook of Veterinary Internal Medicine. p 585-590. W.B. Saunders Co., Toronto.

Copyright © 1998 Canine Inherited Disorders Database. All rights reserved.
Revised: February 02, 2004.


-Morgan (Bella's Mommy)
Katie'sMom


Terrier Terror
Terrier Terror
02/18/2008 5:55 PM  
Thanks, Morgan

Check out Katie's Magazine site:
Katie Scarlett!
First Lady Katie Scarlett - Publisher

And email her at:
katiescarlettorattie@gmail.com


swatson6


Attention Starved
Attention Starved
02/19/2008 7:34 AM  
This is great. Thanks guys!

Sarah



treble02


Pack Leader
Pack Leader
02/19/2008 7:45 AM  
omg...that kinda sounds exactly like what Toa has....with the thin hair...it is ONLY on his blue spots...i thought it may be mange, and it may be...but it really looks like infected hair follicles, like little pimples. People, including the vet, have said how interesting it is that his "blue hair" is so much thinner and shorter than his white. Maybe I should bring this infor to my vet and have him tested for this and mange at the same time....hmmm
Thanks so much Morgan and Jolene!

~ Mary, Trixi and Toa's Mommy
Ratbone Rescues Foster Mommy
swatson6


Attention Starved
Attention Starved
02/19/2008 9:09 AM  
I would look into it Mary, but I think the likelyhood of that is less (still there) because he has 2 non-dilute parents. Jeter's head started with the pimply bumps that were a bacterial infection. The infection has been gone for awhile but I am having a hard time getting the hair to grow back. Very odd.

Sarah



treble02


Pack Leader
Pack Leader
02/19/2008 9:34 AM  
hmmm....well my VET just shrugged her shoulders...LOL...you guys give better advice than she did!! sheeesh!

~ Mary, Trixi and Toa's Mommy
Ratbone Rescues Foster Mommy
GoldRushKennels


Ratterific
Ratterific
02/20/2008 12:47 PM  

Do they smell? If they do it could just be a yeast infection. Oatmeal shampoo and rinse with Apple Cider Vinager. Or a food problem.

We have a girl that carries blue from her momma. We were very careful on breeding her to a total outcross that does not carry blue. Maggie is due April 1st. This litter may contain choc, blue, pearl and black. With a breed that has dilutes you really have to look at the whole petigree on both sides.


Jeff & Janet
Gold Rush Kennels - Rat Terriers
rattytatty


Training Moderator
Training Moderator
02/20/2008 12:54 PM  
I'm so NOT knowledgeable about breeding... wish I knew more. But I've never done any of it... don't intend on doing any of it. We don't want anything at our house that reproduces! haha
Glad there are people who DO know about it though.. and do it responsibly !


~Nora~
Mom to Hoss, Lil'Bit, Buster & Bailey, CGC, NA, NAJ
Crystal


Ratastic
Ratastic
02/20/2008 1:21 PM  
At least with the blues in dogs it isn't deadly like the Lethal White that horses can produce. That is one thing that is good about it, and I'm glad that you are taking the time to educate people about it.

Mom to Guenhwyvar, When life gets hard, take a long hot bath and enjoy knowing the door locks and your phone is on silent!!


Mitzy's Mom


Alpha Feist
Alpha Feist
02/20/2008 1:41 PM  

Mary - the way Toa's hair is totally different at the different colors is so strange - when he was here at the office everyone noticed it.  I think that's why he looks like he has a mohawk - that strip of white hair is longer than the surrounding blue and sticks up!


Mary Beth, mom to Mitzy, Mayfly, Skipper, Skeeter and Loco

RBR Foster Mom
www.ratbonerescues.com
treble02


Pack Leader
Pack Leader
02/20/2008 1:47 PM  
Mary - the way Toa's hair is totally different at the different colors is so strange - when he was here at the office everyone noticed it. I think that's why he looks like he has a mohawk - that strip of white hair is longer than the surrounding blue and sticks up!

I know...its so weird its like its 3-D.... the blue is thinner and shorter....i hope its not a defect!! LOl...i think is kinda neato personally!

~ Mary, Trixi and Toa's Mommy
Ratbone Rescues Foster Mommy
Azrats


Obsessed
Obsessed
02/20/2008 1:57 PM  
My question is when carrying blue, or in my case both blue, and pearl (no one can jump on me since it doesn't have an "official" widely used name, if you breed a black and white dog who's father was a pearl, mother was a sable. I was always told (and it might be false info!) that color dilution alopecia only occurs in a dilute to a dilute breeding. I'm careful, but I only have nondiluted girls who have dilute in there genetics, and I've bred one dilute litter they where all fine. All loved. So, where in the genes does the dilute cause alopecia?

And as we lie beneath the stars
We realize how small we are
If they could love like you and me
Imagine what the world could be~Nickleback
For my dogs teach me everyday, and in their eyes I see the person I strive to be-Karen, about Camper
GoldRushKennels


Ratterific
Ratterific
02/20/2008 3:47 PM  

Isabella is not a dilute so we did not have a problem with breeding to our girl that carries blue. It's the double dilutes we worry about.

Sorry I should not have used Pearl. Isabella is just the lack of black.

 

 


Jeff & Janet
Gold Rush Kennels - Rat Terriers
Azrats


Obsessed
Obsessed
02/20/2008 3:58 PM  
*nods* You are the second person I've heard this from, and I always worry when breeding my isabella rat. I've read to mnay breeders opinions. I've heard an isabella (or pearl) rat is a double dilute of black and chocolate. Camper my one stud dog is Isabella, if isabella is what the UKC calls Blue Fawn (he is 5 years old, registered not long after birth. I'm not sure blue fawn was a different color at the time.)

And as we lie beneath the stars
We realize how small we are
If they could love like you and me
Imagine what the world could be~Nickleback
For my dogs teach me everyday, and in their eyes I see the person I strive to be-Karen, about Camper
GoldRushKennels


Ratterific
Ratterific
02/20/2008 4:16 PM  

It's just the lack of the Black gene, not a dilute. The colors are still being worked on by ARTA for UKC. Now AKC really has the clors screwed up. So in reallity Sterling the stud we used is really a Choc Tri without the Black gene. Isabella is a very misunderstood color or lack of color. I have watched judges just shake their heads. You ought to see them with our Choc Tri Calico boy, they can't get past his colored eyes and nose.


Jeff & Janet
Gold Rush Kennels - Rat Terriers
spence9118


Terrier Terror
Terrier Terror
02/20/2008 5:03 PM  
Sorry this may be a stupid question but is Peal and Isabella the same thing? We just got a pearl puppy and I was just curious.

Erica- Charlie and Tucker's Mommy

www.myspace.com/ricka9118

Azrats


Obsessed
Obsessed
02/20/2008 6:26 PM  
Camper doesn't have a weird pattern, he's bi-color *just changes her avatar*

And as we lie beneath the stars
We realize how small we are
If they could love like you and me
Imagine what the world could be~Nickleback
For my dogs teach me everyday, and in their eyes I see the person I strive to be-Karen, about Camper
GoldRushKennels


Ratterific
Ratterific
02/20/2008 7:56 PM  

Sue has a nice color genetic site

www.1st-writer.com/ColorGenetics/lesson1.htm


Jeff & Janet
Gold Rush Kennels - Rat Terriers
spence9118


Terrier Terror
Terrier Terror
02/20/2008 8:07 PM  
Wow thanks for posting that! That site has some great info!

Erica- Charlie and Tucker's Mommy

www.myspace.com/ricka9118

breshearsratterriers


Ratterific
Ratterific
02/20/2008 8:11 PM  

Okay I am confused....I thought that in order to produce blue puppies, both parents had to at least carry the blue gene. I know that you are not supposed to breed a blue to a blue (if it is the dogs' actual colors.)

Recessive d

"d" is the recessive gene (or allele) in this series. As a recessive (and as the only recessive in this series), it requires two "d" genes, or "dd," in order to produce a visibly diluted dog.

This dilution action primarily affects Eumelanin, or the Black or Chocolates areas of the coat, as well as the skin, eye color and nose leather. If the Phaeomelanin (tan or red) areas are affected, this effect is minimal.

The action of dilution is to reduce the expression of Eumelanin color, or to "dilute." Other genes are involved that impact the depth of color. For example, we discussed in the "B-series" how Chocolate coats can come in a variety of depths of color, from light chocolate to liver chocolate, depending on the rufus polygenes attached. In this same way, diluted dogs come in a variety of depths of color, depending on the rufus polygenes attached to other series' alleles, or to the amount of Eumelanin expressed - for example, the amount of Eumelanin expressed in a bi-color dog versus the amount of Eumelanin expressed in a sable dog (see the "A-series") where Eumelanin is restricted, but not in totality.

You can see this variation in depth of color in "Dark Blue" versus "Silver Blue" dogs. It's not that one is "more diluted" than another, but simply that the existing depth of color (determined by other alleles) is diluted.

reference: http://www.1st-writer.com/ColorGenetics/lesson5.htm

Will someone clarify this for me?

breshearsratterriers


Ratterific
Ratterific
02/20/2008 8:21 PM  

Here is my blue boy Louie:

 

His color constantly changes and so does the thickness of his coat.....Does anyone know why?

treble02


Pack Leader
Pack Leader
02/20/2008 8:27 PM  
beautiful baby! i dont have any answers sorry

~ Mary, Trixi and Toa's Mommy
Ratbone Rescues Foster Mommy
GoldRushKennels


Ratterific
Ratterific
02/20/2008 8:27 PM  

Here is the guide from ARTA the UKC Rat Terrier parent club.

artaukc.org/PhotoColorGuide.html

 

 


Jeff & Janet
Gold Rush Kennels - Rat Terriers
breshearsratterriers


Ratterific
Ratterific
02/20/2008 8:32 PM  
I am not near a color expert, I have done some research.....but I am still not sure of Louie's patterns, or color.....I know that he has some blue, he has a tan undercoat (reverse sabling)? Anyone with opinions, it would be appreciated!

Brandii
tauney4


Pack Leader
Pack Leader
02/20/2008 8:37 PM  
he is a beautiful rattie!!!!
GoldRushKennels


Ratterific
Ratterific
02/20/2008 8:42 PM  

I have seen that pattern called Seal before.


Jeff & Janet
Gold Rush Kennels - Rat Terriers
breshearsratterriers


Ratterific
Ratterific
02/20/2008 8:44 PM  
Thanks
breshearsratterriers


Ratterific
Ratterific
02/20/2008 8:46 PM  

So then you think his color is Seal?

Does that have anything to do with the merle gene?

GoldRushKennels


Ratterific
Ratterific
02/20/2008 10:35 PM  

Pattern not color.

If it were merle one of his parents Must be merle. Not something you want to breed for.


Jeff & Janet
Gold Rush Kennels - Rat Terriers
Azrats


Obsessed
Obsessed
02/20/2008 11:04 PM  
So, camper being isabella or (pearl) make him not a dilute, which means the above original post is false???

And as we lie beneath the stars
We realize how small we are
If they could love like you and me
Imagine what the world could be~Nickleback
For my dogs teach me everyday, and in their eyes I see the person I strive to be-Karen, about Camper
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