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Katie'sMom

Newbie

05/02/2007 11:34 AM
Been doing more research on the next phase of cottontail bunny raising. Hmmmm, we are entering a crucial stage. At 3 to 4 weeks, when the bunny is changing over from milk to solid diet, is a critical time. (I am now feeding solid food along with formula.) It has to do with bacteria they need for digestion. In the wild, they get it from their mother's feces. When orphaned, they have to get it from their own - cottontails eat their feces. Now, the good news is, I think he is now eating his feces (of course it's so small it's hard to tell), but the critical issue is will he get enough of the correct bacteria? Also, it battles with all the incorrect bacteria out there in the human/dog/etc world. So, they can be hopping around healthy one day and dead the next! I have only read this on one very technical site, so I'm trying not to worry too much. But, he is (by my estimation) in his 3rd week -- I think his eyes had just opened when I found him, so he was about 9 or 10 days - so time will tell. Y'all say a prayer for little Boo Boo. As Randy said, we are doing the best we can for him -- I guess it's one of those things that we can't control. But, I sure would hate to lose the little guy now.

winnihoohoo

Bratty Ratty

05/02/2007 11:36 AM
I hope he makes it...umm, maybe you could go find some rabbit droppings for him to eat....>(

DaisysMom

Moderator
<b>Moderator</b>

05/02/2007 11:37 AM
Oh, I really hope he makes it through this stage!!!! You are doing the best you can, Jan, and that's all you can do. He wouldn't have come this far without you.

Tracey - Darlin' Daisy's Mom

PamWh

Rattitude Problem

05/02/2007 11:38 AM
Randy is right. You are doing the best you can and the rest is in God's hands. Maybe a pet store will have a supplement or something that will help him get the good bacteria he needs.

PamWh aka Bob's Mom If your rattie ain't happy, ain't nobody happy!

Mitzy's Mom

PAWesome

05/02/2007 11:38 AM
Aw, I hope the little guy makes it. You're doing a great job with him.

Mary Beth, mom to the Lollipop Kids Georgia Foster Mom, www.newrattitude.org Pics of my current fosters: http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/caradoc http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/fiona

Paul

Feisty

05/02/2007 11:39 AM
Posted By winnihoohoo on 05/02/2007 11:36 AM I hope he makes it...umm, maybe you could go find some rabbit droppings for him to eat....>( Donna, that was my exact thought! Jan, do you know anyone with rabbits? I'm sure anyone that has a one would be willing to part with a little rabbit do-do for a worthy cause.

"Train now, or forever hold your leash" http://www.flickr.com/photos/doberdad/

Katie'sMom

Newbie

05/02/2007 11:40 AM
I wonder if it has to be cottontail feces??????

PamWh

Rattitude Problem

05/02/2007 11:41 AM
Is there a wildlife rescue/refuge you can call or email to ask?

PamWh aka Bob's Mom If your rattie ain't happy, ain't nobody happy!

Katie'sMom

Newbie

05/02/2007 11:51 AM
Here is what I read -- and it says they can be contaminated by the bad bacteria from handling -- of course, I have handled him already. . . soooooo. . . . And it does specify wild rabbits for fecal material. It's in God's hands, I suppose. ~sigh~ It is very common for baby rabbits to die quite suddenly at the time they are adjusting from a protein-rich diet of milk formula to their mature protein-poor diet of coarse vegetation (3-4 weeks of age). During this conversion, the bunny's intestinal environment and pH change completely to deal with these new coarse food sources. Prior to eating vegetation, the intestinal tract of healthy rabbits is almost devoid of the bacteria of adult Cottontail rabbits. The rabbit does not obtain these healthy"intestinal bacteria until they begin to eat solid food at the age of 3-4 weeks. They obtain these bacteria from the feces of their mother as they nose curiously about. Also, it is common for rabbits to re-eat their soft stools produced at night. That particular stool is looser and called "night soil". These good bacteria reside in the cecum and the large intestine. When rabbits convert to roughage eaters, these gram positive bacteria and fungi are present in enormous numbers (Bacteroides fragilis , Bacillus subtilis, etc.). The central "processing plant" for these bacterial activities is the cecum, a pouch located where the small intestine meets the large intestine. The cecum is the largest organ in the bunnie's abdomen. Guinea pigs and other plant-eating rodents share a similar cecum. In ruminants, similar fermentation occurs in their multiple-chambered stomach. The rabbit cecum contains a "brew" of these bacteria and fungi that are normal and beneficial to the rabbit. In fact, a rabbit cannot live without them, because these cecal microorganisms produce essential fatty acids, nutrients and vitamins that rabbits cannot produce on their own. This is because their natural diet of leaves, shoots, grasses and hay do not contain them. If, during conversion, rabbits accidentally ingest the bacteria and fungi that are normally on human hands and in the environment (coliform bacteria - including Escherichia coli (E.coli), Clostridia, Staphylococcus epidermidis, Bacteroides, Streptococcus faecalis, sporogenes. and fungi including Saccharomycopsis sp.) they will die of acute enterotoxemia (these misplaced human intestinal bacterial produce deadly toxins). This disease is similar in signs to toxic shock syndrome in women. One minute the bunny appears healthy and active and the next it is comatose or dead. Once a healthy gram-posative flora is established, the rabbit is much more resistant to diseases caused by these "bad" organisms. Most of these "bad" organisms reside normally in our own intestines and those of carnivorous animals such as our cats and dogs where they cause no harm and are quite essential. So during this period, wear food-handler's gloves when handling the rabbits and be very careful not to contaminate them . . . . . If you have a source of rabbit fecal pellets from visiting wild bunnies , it is a good idea to "seed" their water crock with a fecal pellet to "inoculated" them with the correct bacteria . . . . Many small animal veterinarians and health food stores sell a paste containing Lactobacillus acidophilus . It is used commercially , together with Streptococcus salivarius, in the production of yogurt. Unfortunately, the intestine and cecum of rabbits on a diet of roughage is not acidic enough for these lactobacilli to survive. So giving lactobacillus paste will not help your bunnie.

Mitzy's Mom

PAWesome

05/02/2007 11:57 AM
Maybe go find some wild bunny poop and put it in his water like they say to do? Geez, from reading that it's no wonder it's hard to raise an orphaned bunny!

Mary Beth, mom to the Lollipop Kids Georgia Foster Mom, www.newrattitude.org Pics of my current fosters: http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/caradoc http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/fiona

Katie'sMom

Newbie

05/02/2007 11:58 AM
How in the world would I find wild bunny poop. Well, this is the ONLY place I have read this -- I'm going to hope for the best.

Lucy's Colleen

Bratty Ratty

05/02/2007 12:11 PM
Um, learn something new everyday I guess. No more face bunny kisses for a bit. But you are doing a great job.

Colleen Flickr account: http://www.flickr.com/photos/7797281@N05/

winnihoohoo

Bratty Ratty

05/02/2007 12:14 PM
Posted By Katie'sMom on 05/02/2007 11:58 AM How in the world would I find wild bunny poop. Well, this is the ONLY place I have read this -- I'm going to hope for the best. Well, they are little round balls of poop. So maybe you could find some around where some clover is, or other stuff they like to eat...

Katie'sMom

Newbie

05/02/2007 12:30 PM
Yes, no more bunny kisses for a bit and I will start wearing gloves when feeding. Okay, that's about the best I can do. I'm going to go hang up some laundry and then take a nap. I'll talk to y'all later.

amletpumpkin

Terrier Terror

05/02/2007 12:47 PM
Many small animal veterinarians and health food stores sell a paste containing Lactobacillus acidophilus . It is used commercially , together with Streptococcus salivarius, in the production of yogurt. Unfortunately, the intestine and cecum of rabbits on a diet of roughage is not acidic enough for these lactobacilli to survive. So giving lactobacillus paste will not help your bunnie. jan, maybe call up a small animal vet or feed store and ask for that. Lactobacillus is a pretty common type of digestive bacteria...maybe combining the two of them can help him. It can't hurt to call and ask!

swatson6

Attention Starved

05/02/2007 1:00 PM
Posted By Katie'sMom on 05/02/2007 11:58 AM How in the world would I find wild bunny poop. Well, this is the ONLY place I have read this -- I'm going to hope for the best. LOL, on your knees with a magnifying glass. I did read the other day, when you first found Boo Boo, about the "poop" thing somewhere else too Jan, and from what it said, I can't remember where, was to feed it adult bunny poo, any adult bunny's. I guess the only rabbits that don't eat poo are Jack rabbits. Good luck, you've done such a great job so far

Sarah Mom to Jack, Jeter and foster mom to Teagan

Mitzy's Mom

PAWesome

05/02/2007 1:30 PM
You do learn the darnest things on this site! Baby bunnies need to eat big bunny poop.... When I found those baby possums Sunday I talked to one wildlife rehab person who, although she couldn't take them, gave me advice on caring for them. I was going to have to manually stimulate their tummies for them to pee and poo.....I am so glad I found another wildlife person to take them!! Can you just see me bringing the possums to work!

Mary Beth, mom to the Lollipop Kids Georgia Foster Mom, www.newrattitude.org Pics of my current fosters: http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/caradoc http://imageevent.com/newrattitude/fiona

Katie'sMom

Newbie

05/02/2007 1:55 PM
Thanks y'all. I did email Stacey and copied the article to her and asked if she had any thought. And, I am glad to know any adult bunny poo -- i think I can handle finding some domestic rabbit poo! Yep, MB, the things we learn and talk about --- amazing!

kimrose

Feisty

05/02/2007 3:01 PM
Oh no! I hope Boo Boo is going to be ok!!! I had no idea raising an orphaned bunny would be so difficult... But I'm sure your doing everything you can, and a great job at that

My Flickr Page MySpace

Katie'sMom

Newbie

05/02/2007 4:31 PM
Thanks, Kim. I think it's cottontails that are particularly hard (or maybe any wild rabbit). I don't think domesticated bunny orphans are as tricky. Well, say your prayers!

Susan

Terrier Terror

05/02/2007 11:28 PM
Try some probiotic from the feedstore. It comes in powder and paste form. We used it for the goats when they were not doing well. It is a ruemen inoculant and might work for bunny. The feces that rabbits eat are special ones that only come out first thing in the morning. Just any rabbit poopies laying around aren't going to do the job. Unless you can find a rabbit breeder in your area, Check with the ARBA, American Rabbit Breeders Association, to find a breeder in your area and also check with your county 4-H office. Many 4-H kids have rabbits and one may have a doe with a litter the age of your little bunny. You can fool rabbits noses with vic's vapor rub! And the mom might accept your bunny. I had rabbits and 4-h ers for nearly 15 years and there are lots of tricks to get mom to accept and foster other babies.

ANYTHING WORTH DOING IS WORTH OVERDOING Mom of eight, only three left at home! Pack leader to ten ratties: Maggie, Mysty, Berry, Simon, Ceecee and five puppies, Star,Sari, Bluebelle, Double stuf,and Snortie. As well as Ginger the Border Collie and a herd of turkeys!

JRT_Rattie_Mom

Newbie

05/03/2007 2:29 AM
Being Boo Boo's Mom is such a big responsibility! I never knew anything about wild bunnies... and who would have ever guessed they need to eat bunny poo! I sure hope you'll be able to find the right poo... or poo substitute.. and that little Boo Boo will be just fine.

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